Teresa of Avila and Watering the Garden

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Waiting on him

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Understand about struggle. All I’m saying is we should be for one another not against one another. Maybe I don’t believe or see the same as you or epi...but in either we can come underneath and support where there is lack. To be more than lip service or theology of what is righteousness and Holy by loving and edifying where there is lack. Romans 15:1-7 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. [2] Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification. [3] For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. [4] For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. [5] Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: [6] That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. [7] Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
Exactly we are free from the bondage of pleasing men or religious establishments. Now we are free to serve and please God alone
 
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Waiting on him

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Looking back over this . . .

What we truly need to do is to understand Scripture on these things, and not base our conclusions on what experiences people have reported, which have No Authority - Even Peter!

Peter Saw Jesus Transfigured. He saw the illuminated cloud. He heard the Father speak! And still the Holy Spirit wrote, by Peter's hand, that we have a more certain word of prophecy.

Even with that experience Peter defers to the Written Scriptures.

And the man whom Paul reported caught up to the "5th level", no, the 3rd heaven - we need Scriptural terminology - this is mentioned briefly, and only to say, "I'm not going to say anything about this about myself, now, I'll boast about another guy I know, but not me, not this way."

So are we to be telling people, I've been caught up to heaven, caught up to level 3, however you want to call it?

And then start forming doctrine derived from our own perceptions and opinions of our experiences?

Or shall we do as the Apostles did, put all that on the back burner, and stick with the Written Word of God?

I can speak of the miracles in my life, the walking in the Spirit without sin, and so what? Yes, I know God can lift a man up to walk without sin, or perhaps just the consciousness of sin, because, let's face it, if Paul was not a fit judge of himself, shall we say we are?

This is what happens when we elevate Scripture over our experiences. We put ourselves in the position that our experiences just might become unimportant except to us.

The fact of the matter is that when it was God's will to awaken my understanding, He did. And when it was God's will that the corruption of my flesh would be put away, that's what He did. And I learned what life is meant to be.

And when it was His will that this abeyance of the flesh end, it did.

And now I know that it is His will that I walk by faith, which is the true miracle. I know that the only impediment to this life is unbelief. Listening to people tell you, you aren't there yet. I have good news for you, sonshine!

We are reborn into life.

To live a life in a body of flesh, but to live that life according to what is written, and not what is experienced.

It is in that way that the living water flows unimpeded. We all, who are Christ's, share in the same Spirit, His life already fills us, and all that remains is that we believe this to be true, and then live accordingly.

Much love!
Well said, if your only speaking of yourself then all your accomplishing is pleasing yourself and men
 
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GodsGrace

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And yet, many will come in that day and say to Him, Hey! We did all these miracles in Your Name! And it will have been in His Name, but not by His Spirit.
I agree. I also understand this verse to say what you've stated.
It's easy to say that we're doing something for God,,,OR in God's name and fool others; but we cannot fool God. Jesus did say in that same chapter that we can know the false teachers by their fruit...but sometimes it's not so easy. I'm thinking, for example, of some preachers that seem so holy and yet in their private lives are not. And yet the fruit seems to be good....churches full; stadiums full.
Romans 7:21-23

My idea is that there are powers in this world, not in humanity, but in spirit beings. God is of course all powerful. Yet He leaves much to run it's course.

Part of the course of things is that deceiving signs and wonders will deceive, and many will be deceived.

I strictly follow the Biblical narrative. I don't just mean the storyline, more the context of how to understand everything.

Jesus ascended into heaven. No one else does that. Some were taken into heaven.

I don't question some fellow flying around the sky, but I don't look at him and say, because he can fly around the sky, he must be godly. Personally, I've never seen anyone fly around the sky. But I don't question levitation, for instance. Commonly associated with demonic activity, and overcome in the Name of Jesus. Exprerienced by people of whom I believe their accounts.

I've experienced other incidents of demonic activity. Between what I read in Scripture, and what I've experienced in this world, I'm really not looking at these sorts of things.

Much love!
Agreed. Ditto.
 

GodsGrace

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Well, I would say to want to know and understand on your own, rather than blindly accepting doctrines (even doctrines of hundreds of years ago), is wise. If it is coming from a man, or even a longstanding denomination, it's just wise to be a Berean. The stakes are very high in this, because we are to be wary of the leaven of men.
What do you believe?
Who taught you?

You could be a Berean but that means you're checking on something someone has told you.
 

marks

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When I was parachuted into a better grace location...and this is by the will of God... I didn't have to conform myself in a gradual maturity so as to experience God in a series of smaller steps into His greater intimacy.

This was a key part of my history also.

God gave me this experience, for long enough that I knew it was real, and what it was like.

But then He returned me to then learn to step back into that life by the exercise of faith.

And that is my take-away learning from that experience. The righteous, by faith, they live.

Righteousness is found in Christ alone. We are reborn in righteousness and holiness, and then are to trust in God. And by faith, we live. True living.

Much love!
 
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amadeus

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I agree. I also understand this verse to say what you've stated.
It's easy to say that we're doing something for God,,,OR in God's name and fool others; but we cannot fool God. Jesus did say in that same chapter that we can know the false teachers by their fruit...but sometimes it's not so easy. I'm thinking, for example, of some preachers that seem so holy and yet in their private lives are not. And yet the fruit seems to be good....churches full; stadiums full.
Romans 7:21-23
By their fruit, but as you say, sometimes we may mistake an evil fruit for a good one. Jesus never did this, which is why it is so important to walk as close to God as possible, always, if we can, walking in the Spirit. This is where the necessary discernment will come to us so that we, being in a moment like Jesus, will be not be mistaken. We will not be fooled by someone's façade.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

This 'woe' should never be for us, but when we walk in our own spirit, instead in the Holy Spirit, we will be there in that 'woe' and will not recognize the evil fruit of a false teacher. Following the literal words of scripture alone will NOT gives us the necessary discernment... but the Holy Spirit in us, not quenched, will!
 

marks

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I'm thinking, for example, of some preachers that seem so holy and yet in their private lives are not. And yet the fruit seems to be good....churches full; stadiums full.

I think of the fruit in their personal lives. Are these people who love others, or deride others? For instance.

Much love!
 

amadeus

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Paul said in Corinthians that the things that were seen and heard of of the alleged man in the third heaven, were unlawful to speak of. What law would this violate. Can only be one answer ?
@marks @stunnedbygrace @Episkopos @VictoryinJesus

God's law! [Written in our heart!]

Must we have a black and white precise answer? Is the hypothetical answer that seems correct always the right answer in a real situation?

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1
"... a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:7


"And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say." Luke 12:11-12


"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Matt 7:6
 
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Waiting on him

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God's law! [Written in our heart!]

Must we have a black and white precise answer? Is the hypothetical answer that seems correct always the right answer in a real situation?

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1
"... a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:7


"And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say." Luke 12:11-12


"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Matt 7:6
Had Paul boasted of himself it would only have been in effort to please men and not God
 

Waiting on him

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@stunnedbygrace , this is the beauty of it all, your free to please God. Jesus was not pleasing at all to the religious order at the time. He was very offensive to many, but He was pleasing to the Father.
We no longer have to jump through the religious rings of fire, for mans approval. In Christ God is pleased. This is the narrow gate. There’s liberty on the other side!
 

marks

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Why seek God or discipline my devotional seeking when it's all just a free gift? So then my own "exaggerated" experience shows a greater trend in the church. That of being spoiled by grace.

I don't think that's it.

Grace cannot spoil. Grace is God's power given to us. You may take away your own opinions of grace, that may lead you in a different direction, but the Grace that is of God gives us life.

It's an interesting thing to contemplate, the experience of walking in the Spirit seemingly without any effort, simply going day after day after day however long, without the knowledge or awareness of sin, only seeing life filling up with the fruits of righteousness.

That, compared to living daily with the knowledge of the weakness of human flesh, and the knowledge of the power of the Holy Spirit, to then have to daily renew the mind to live that life.

But over time I've learned these things to be true. It's exactly what the Bible says, and is true. In return for believing, all this is yours.

The experience showed me what it was like. But the Bible defines what happened.

Much love!
 

marks

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Teresa, Teresa, Teresa, my funny sister...we are like twins. We relate to God the same way....
having conversations with Him.
Once in the 1500s, mind you, her superior called her to another convent...so here she is in the night in one of those wagons,
stagecoaches...Oh bloody hell... so of course there is a storm....the driver mistakes the creek as passable...
WELL, it's overflowing and the wagon turns over....Yes...here is Teresa in the water at night.

She says to God...Thanks a lot. He says, But Teresa this is how I treat My friends....
She says, "Yes, and this is why You don't have many."
Why shouldn't we converse with our Creator? That's what He made us for, to be with Him.

Much love!
 
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amadeus

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Had Paul boasted of himself it would only have been in effort to please men and not God
Even so! Sometimes it is difficult to understand all of the meaning in what Paul writes, but to me there is no doubt that God was with him in the writing. Paul did not boast, but simply expressed what God wanted written. The difficulties, when they are there, are there on purpose to accomplish God's will in each real situation to please God and to help the man/men involved. Without the lead of the Holy Spirit, we are lost indeed, wading through the written scriptures of Paul in particular.
 
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amadeus

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In Paul boasting of his weakness he amplified the strength of Christ in him
Indeed! This is how it was for him, and how it should be for us. People who come onto a forum like this insisting that they have the only or best answer are in trouble already.

"For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:11
 

marks

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Also @stunnedbygrace when Paul pleads remove this thorn, Jesus response is my grace (the fact I’m pleased with you) that’s sufficient. You don’t have to please man.
Hi Waiting on him,

I'd like to mention that this grace I think is more than God being pleased with us.

My grace is sufficient for you . . . What I give to you is enough.

God's grace to us is more than a kindly attitude, though that is there in totality. But God's kindness is also His power in our lives making us holy and righteous, and imparting to us fruitful lives . . . to the extent that we believe it is true.

Much love!