10 different NT warning-types against eternal security
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Have no idea....I think it is a comic internet god....it got some attention....just funny.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Justification was a little involved...the rest of the elements I will go over tomorrow. And then move on from there to how these scriptures harmonize. How long have they been battling over these scriptures?..that in itself is interesting. How late are you going to be up?
jshiii
Well-Known Member
PLEASE, ANY Christian Members that have never broken one of these warnings as a Christian, PLEASE speak up? That is what I thought! NO ONE. Everyone on these boards have broken at least one of these warnings. I guess this means all of us Christians are going to Hell. (Rhetorical) This is why we need to put our faith in his mercy, grace and love.
The Lord knows we can't obey Laws lol. Even as Christians, we are wretched, as Paul has said.
Romans 7:24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
Romans 7:15-20 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
Good to remember from Hebrews 7.12 that the law was changed; and that what we now have is better than the law - Hebrews 7.19.
Romans 8.38-39 contains great assurance for the believer of eternal security in Christ.
10 different NT warning-types against eternal securityI don't really see...
Hi @farouk
Neither do I, 'see,' on reflection (re:- #81): for the subject of the thread (above) denies that.
* The unsaved do not have an eternal security to loose, and the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, who has been saved by God's grace, on the basis of the shed blood of Christ Jesus our Lord, have nothing to fear regarding their eternal security, for they are sealed unto the day of redemption anyway.
The warning verses quoted that I began to consider separately from the OP, had no basis, the context denying the claim made concerning them. There are many more quoted that appear to have been entered without due reference to the context within which they came, so I see no point in attending to them, for I will simply be reiterating the same negation in each case.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Romans 8.38-39 seems to assert the believer's eternal security strongly...
Just woke up this morning around 3:00am. Will probably come back and forth to the computer for the next few hours.
In Romans 7:14 (context is king here) Paul uses the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION, identifying himself as carnal in order to define carnality to those who are carnal. There are two types of believer...carnal and spiritual (1 Corinthians 3:1). Paul is using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION here. And elsewhere he writes that he has at times used such a tactic (see 1 Corinthians 9:22). So then, Romans 7:24 is written from the perspective of a carnal believer; while Paul, who wrote the words in that verse, was not carnal in the slightest but was rather defining carnality to us all for the sake of definition.
A spiritual believer is not carnal. There is much scripture on the topic of entire sanctification, which I will not go into here. But it shows that we do not have to live our lives in defeat, as is described in Romans 7:14-25; but that we can live our lives according to the Lord's victory.
I want to graduate
into Romans chapter eight.
Out with the old
In with the new
To Christ my heart be sold
No longer just sitting in the pew.
O give me a heart
Devoted to You
Not in part
But faithful and true
Wholly surrendered to Christ all anew.
O conquer my flesh
Subdue my iniquity
As I surrender to the mesh
of antiquity
Reading my Bible, timeless in its purpose
Won't You send us revival? lest the devil usurp us?
by Geoffrey Primanti
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Still pulling words chosen by Paul in Romans 3:21-28 & Roman 5:8-11
Propitiation: 1st John 2:2 & 4:10, Romans 3:25 Matthew 20:28 Mark 10:45
Meaning in this context to appease or satisfy God.
Strong’s 2434 hilasmós – properly, propitiation; an offering to appease (satisfy) an angry, offended party. hilasmós is only used twice (1st John 2:2, 4:10) – both times of Christ's atoning blood that appeases God's wrath, on all confessed sin. By the sacrifice of Himself, Jesus Christ provided the ultimate /hilasmós ("propitiation"). Used in 1st John 2:2 & 1st John 4:10
2435 hilastḗrion (a substantival adjective, derived from 2433 /hiláskomai, "to propitiate") – the place of propitiation; the lid of the golden ark (the mercy-seat) where the blood of a vicarious lamb appeased God's wrath on sin. Used in Romans 3:25
Romans 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation (“as an appeasement to God”) in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
1st John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world….This goes back to John 1:29 “Behold, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world! This is an easy point to miss and this is very important to understand. Christ’s death affected the status of sin…worldwide, not just for Christians…everybody. The misunderstanding of this fact accounts for some of the divisions in the church. And it not only affects the understanding of Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross, but also the purpose and affects of Baptism on the person. (Of course I have to quickly put a disclaimer in before everyone faints. Propitiation is not the element of salvation that places a believer in the “saved” status, it is more or less the condition that allows believers to be saved.) Apparently the Trinity thought this through. lol For Christianity to become a worldwide religion the effects of Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross had to affect sin worldwide. This was to set the stage for a reconciliation between God and Mankind, to do this it had to affect everyone.
This is why when Christ died on the cross it had an affect on the temple… And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. Matthew 27:51 From that point on there was nothing between us and God and reconciliation could happen. In other words, when Christ died on the cross, the Old Testament system of sin and tally was no more. The "tally slate" broke in two, nothing to write sins on. Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account. Hebrews 8:12 referencing Jeremiah 31:31-34 speaking of the New Covenant ….For I will be merciful to their iniquities, And I will remember their sins no more.
Keeping mind these two scriptures are from God the Fathers perspective. I say that because as we move on, it is clear that our transgressions are now, between us and Christ, and He does remember.
Matthew 20:28 …just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many…
1st Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,… This is basically the concept of propitiation and of course there are a lot of scriptures stating this fact.
So then we move on to Redemption, but people do not like long posts so I will post another shortly.
I have no disagreements with your post; especially since you have qualified your statements by teaching the opposite of Universalism; while at the first your statements seemed to substantiate the idea.
So, another false doctrine that you're involved in!
However, there is a possibility of a mini-pre-trib rapture of only those who are "walking the walk"
(of which there are very few) ... who won't be tracked down by the antichrist and beheaded.
Julie Whedbee has been talking of this for years now.
Luke 21:34 ... "that Day" refers to the Day of the Lord, or "the wrath of God"
(which all true BACs will escape).
.
Meanwhile, how're we doin' with the 10 dire warning types about losing salvation?
Not 10 warnings, but 10 warning-types ... huge difference!
Not 10 warnings, but 10 warning-types ... huge difference!
Hi justbyfaith,
On this one,
1 Peter 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
My inheritance is being guarded for me by God. My inheritance is incorruptible, and will not fade away. Will not fade away. Remains there for me. Me, who is likewise being guarded by God, through faith, unto . . . salvation.
My walking away isn't part of the equation. It's a baseless objection, as Scripture does not tolerate the notion.
Much love!
'For I am persuaded,
.. that neither death,
.... nor life,
...... nor angels,
........ nor principalities,
.......... nor powers,
............ nor things present,
.............. nor things to come,
................ nor height,
.................. nor depth,
.................... nor any other creature,
shall be able to separate us from the love of God,
which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.'
(Romans 8:38-39)
Praise God!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Redemption
Romans 3:24-25
being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
1st Corinthians 1:30
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”—
Galatians 4:5
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.
Ephesians 1:14
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
The word redeem means “to buy out.” The term was used specifically in reference to the purchase of a slave’s freedom, as in to buy a slave out of the market. The application of this term to Christ’s death on the cross is quite telling. If we are “redeemed,” then our prior condition was one of slavery. God has purchased our freedom, and we are no longer in bondage to sin or to the Old Testament law. This metaphorical use of “redemption” is the teaching of Galatians 3:13 and 4.5
Related to the Christian concept of redemption is the word ransom. Jesus paid the price for our release from sin and its punishment Matthew 20:28 and 1st Timothy 2:6 His death was in exchange for our life. In fact, Scripture is quite clear that redemption is only possible “through His blood,” that is, by His death. Colossians 1:14
Reconciliation
Romans 11:13-15
But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
2nd Corinthians 5:18-21
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Colossians 1:19-22
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
As we move through the scriptures the word world keeps appearing, so it is clear that God is looking at prepping the world for salvation by removing the Old Testament system of sin and putting a plan in place so that those that believe are reconciled to the Trinity in an unprecedented way. (Since I have been on this site I keep telling people, as Paul said time and time again that Christians are not under the Law…here we see the more complicated part of that fact. God loves the Jews, no matter what, he did not want them to keep damning themselves with the Old Testament Laws, so by removing the Old Testament system of sin and tally, he removed the teeth of the Law.)
The mere presence of Christ on earth set this in motion. A God walked with the Apostles, ate and slept and worshiped with them. So as it is God calls them Friends.
Luke 12:4
I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.
John 15:13-15
Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
A new and unprecedented relationship, in this Christianity is unique. This leads to concept of Adoption. Paul reveals that we are adopted as sons and daughters of God, adopted into family of God.
Galatians 4:1-5
Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Romans 8:14-17
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
The extent of this can be shocking to some when you consider the concept of Glorification. John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods.? Much of our belief system exist in such a state that we cannot comprehend those things that are purely divine. 1st John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
So next we will look at sin within the family of God.
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