10 different NT warning-types against eternal security

[justbyfaith]

The Mystery of Salvation!!….well not really, the scriptures are there and they are very clear. Many times they are so definitive that Christians just cannot accept them. This is a short explanation, but we can talk about it.

To start with we have John the Baptist, the cousin of Christ….nothing about that is normal, their connection from conception to the river Jordan is hard to define, you can read the story in Luke chapter 1, Matthew chapter 3 Mark chapter 1 John chapter 1. So while John is baptizing, Christ walks up to him and John says, “Behold, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29 Now there are some details to that but that is essentially what happened when Christ died on the cross. John did not give away the plan, he stated part of the plan. But his statement is absolute. Still more details to discuss, your thoughts?

1 John 3:5 comes to mind; coupled with 1 John 5:20.

 

[amadeus]

God bless and good fortune.....I was just wondering if she is helping you with all these truths. lol

She helps me in very different ways. I've always been quite naive about many things especially in the secular world where we dwell. She, on the other hand, is wiser and never naive. She recognizes quickly the wolves attired as sheep and warns me. She was doing this before we started actively serving God, if you can believe it. She is a helpmeet sent to me by God. Without her I would be physically dead already and certainly not where God has brought me spiritually.
Praise the Lord!

 

[Davy]

Okay good, I encourage you to press the Lord Jesus for it.
It makes a whole world of difference in spiritual revelation and understanding.
.

Just so you don't think I'm not being honest with you, I don't believe the cloven tongue of Acts 2 manifested as a gibberish tongue. There's no such thing as an unknown tongue, for the KJV translators even in 1 Corinthians 14 added the world "unknown". I believe the cloven tongue manifests in known languages of the world, which is what the peoples on Pentecost heard the Apostles speak.

Also, the majority of brethren I know that claim to speak it, and it manifests as gibberish, also adhere to a Pre-trib Rapture theory. I do not, as God's Word does not teach Jesus gathers us before the tribulation, but at the end of it.

Furthermore, Apostle Paul did not teach that everyone speaks the cloven tongue as proof of the presence of The Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues is only one of the spiritual gifts Paul listed, and not the main one he said to desire.

 

[Zachary]

I don't believe the cloven tongue of Acts 2 manifested as a gibberish tongue. There's no such thing as an unknown tongue, for the KJV translators even in 1 Corinthians 14 added the world "unknown". I believe the cloven tongue manifests in known languages of the world, which is what the peoples on Pentecost heard the Apostles speak. Also, the majority of brethren I know that claim to speak it, and it manifests as gibberish, also adhere to a Pre-trib Rapture theory. I do not, as God's Word does not teach Jesus gathers us before the tribulation, but at the end of it. Furthermore, Apostle Paul did not teach that everyone speaks the cloven tongue as proof of the presence of The Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues is only one of the spiritual gifts Paul listed, and not the main one he said to desire.

I agree with all of your above.

Tongues are readily accepted as proof of
receiving the baptism with the Holy Spirit,
which the 120 received on the Day of Pentecost.

This baptism was the promised gift where the Spirit comes UPON.
Of course, the 120-12=108 were also born-again
at this point in time (where the Spirit comes INSIDE).

The gift of tongues in 1 Cor 12 is just one of the 9 possible gifts
available to anyone having this Spirit baptism.
IMO, no one has all 9.

Hope none of this is viewed by anyone as being total insanity!
.

 

[Grailhunter]

1 John 3:5 comes to mind; coupled with 1 John 5:20.

Sorry...dental appointment. Where were we?
A little background…just short
So this is the status of the Jews as Christ starts His ministry
The world is full of sin.
Everything that is good is bottled up in the Jerusalem area. “good relative”
The Jews, up to this point did not have an opportunity for salvation or forgiveness.
Hebrews 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Sacrifices did not forgive sins they warded off the wrath of God. Which is a point because God rewarded the Jews and punished the Jews in the physical world.

Heaven was not offered to the Jews and they were not threatened with Hell. Jews when they died were gathered with their fathers in Shoal…Jews, whether they keep the Laws or not, still went to Shoal. Because…. a man is not justified by the works of the Law….

So to put it simply…the spiritual side of Mankind, was in a world of hurt. But there is a plan afoot, and in a lot ways that plan is summed up in just a few verses….famous verses…

John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 3:21-28
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Roman 5:8-11
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled of God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Paul chooses his words carefully and we need to consider them carefully, because within them is Truth…capital “T” the plan of the Kingdom of Heaven. Just a few scriptures that gives us the reason God did this and the plan, those details of the plan, and the power or the plan.

 

[justbyfaith]

also adhere to a Pre-trib Rapture theory. I do not, as God's Word does not teach Jesus gathers us before the tribulation, but at the end of it.

See Luke 21:36, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and Revelation 3:10.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sorry...dental appointment. Where were we?
A little background…just short
So this is the status of the Jews as Christ starts His ministry
The world is full of sin.
Everything that is good is bottled up in the Jerusalem area. “good relative”
The Jews, up to this point did not have an opportunity for salvation or forgiveness.
Hebrews 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Sacrifices did not forgive sins they warded off the wrath of God. Which is a point because God rewarded the Jews and punished the Jews in the physical world.

Heaven was not offered to the Jews and they were not threatened with Hell. Jews when they died were gathered with their fathers in Shoal…Jews, whether they keep the Laws or not, still went to Shoal. Because…. a man is not justified by the works of the Law….

So to put it simply…the spiritual side of Mankind, was in a world of hurt. But there is a plan afoot, and in a lot ways that plan is summed up in just a few verses….famous verses…

John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 3:21-28
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Roman 5:8-11
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled of God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Paul chooses his words carefully and we need to consider them carefully, because within them is Truth…capital “T” the plan of the Kingdom of Heaven. Just a few scriptures that gives us the reason God did this and the plan, those details of the plan, and the power or the plan.

I prefer the kjv...

Jhn 3:16, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17, For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Rom 3:21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24, Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25, Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26, To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27, Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28, Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 5:8, But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9, Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10, For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11, And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

 

[Grailhunter]

I prefer the kjv...

Jhn 3:16, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17, For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Rom 3:21, But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24, Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25, Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26, To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27, Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28, Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 5:8, But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9, Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10, For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11, And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

All good....keep doing that...thank you.

The Elements of Salvation

Justification: Romans 3:22-30, 4:25, 5:1 5:9, 5:15-21, 8:30-34
To justify means to declare righteous; to announce or pronounce a favorable verdict. It does not mean to make righteous, but to announce righteousness. Justification, to justify, is a judicial term indicating that a verdict of acquittal has been announced. Justification does not take into consideration the sinful nature of Mankind, it does not come from the perfection of an individual, it does not occur because a person has earned it. Justification is the free gift of Christ. It is a condition that has to be met for reconciliation to occur. This is important because God the Father was not changed by the New Covenant, He has and always will have zero tolerance to sin and it is the condition, the reason that God separated Himself from Mankind.

Joshua 24:19 Then Joshua said to the people, "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins.

Jeremiah 16:17 "For My eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from My face, nor is their iniquity concealed from My eyes.

Jeremiah 2:22 "Although you wash yourself with lye And use much soap, The stain of your iniquity is before Me," declares the Lord GOD.

Job 10:14 If I sin, then You would take note of me, And would not acquit me of my guilt.

Hosea 7:2 And they do not consider in their hearts That I remember all their wickedness Now their deeds are all around them; They are before My face.

Because of this God had to separate Himself. If you read chapter 19 in Exodus, you will see God’s concern for this separation…. Exodus 19:12 And you shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, Beware that you do not go up on the mountain or touch the border of it, whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death.... This continues throughout the Old Testament and is part of the rules for the Temple.

Justification could never be based on our good works or perfection, for God the Father requires perfect obedience, which is impossible for Mankind. Romans 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Still, justification is not the element of salvation that forgives our sins, it is the element of salvation that presence us before God blameless, despite our sins. Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

This is another absolute. We are going to sin, that is for sure and certain, but we do not lose our relationship with God every time we sin. That relationship is maintained by the pronouncement of being Justified. This pronouncement come from Christ…Who which all authority being given to Him. Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth….. Christ makes this statement before He is crucified, so God the Father had given Him all authority to implement this plan.

 

[justbyfaith]

To justify means to declare righteous; to announce or pronounce a favorable verdict. It does not mean to make righteous, but to announce righteousness.

It means "to declare as righteous". Now, it is impossible for the Lord to lie, Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2. Therefore when the Lord declares a man righteous, He is calling those things which be not as though they were (Romans 4:17), creating a new reality. This reality is the thing that God is declaring, that the man is righteous. God does indeed make men righteous (Romans 5:19). This is the gift of the Lord (Romans 5:17). The Lord imparts a practical righteousness (1 John 3:7) to those who hunger and thirst after it (Matthew 5:6).

Justification could never be based on our good works or perfection, for God the Father requires perfect obedience, which is impossible for Mankind.

When we come to Christ and are forgiven of all of our sins, we are no longer under the law (Romans 6:14); we are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19); we are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6). And this means that sin is not imputed to us any longer, God counts us as completely righteous because of our faith, regardless of whether we sin (see also Romans 4:5). So our righteous standing before Him is unchangeable. Now the Lord also begins the process of sanctification, in which He makes us into the people whom He sees us to be in the practical sense. We are being conformed to the image of Christ; we are being made holy even as He is holy. If we do righteousness, we are righteous even as He is righteous (1 John 3:7). Pure, even as he is pure (1 John 3:3). And we will walk even as He walked (1 John 2:6).

Romans 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

The blood of Jesus does not only justify a man; it sanctifies him also (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29).

When the blood is applied to a person's life, is it possible that it would do one thing without also doing the other?

We are going to sin, that is for sure and certain,

I believe that even if 1 John 3:9 is given as a hyperbolic statement, that its message is in refutation of your statement directly above. It may not be that being born of God, we cannot sin; but I believe that it is certainly true that as people born of God, we have made a 180-degree turn away from the direction of sin. See Proverbs 4:18. I believe that the verse is most certainly telling us that we do not have to sin again in the future; that we can come to a place in our lives where we are walking in complete freedom and victory over sin. The element of sin can indeed be rendered dead in our lives so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:6, Romans 7:8, Romans 8:13).

 

[Grailhunter]

It means "to declare as righteous". Now, it is impossible for the Lord to lie, Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2. Therefore when the Lord declares a man righteous, He is calling those things which be not as though they were (Romans 4:17), creating a new reality. This reality is the thing that God is declaring, that the man is righteous. God does indeed make men righteous (Romans 5:19). This is the gift of the Lord (Romans 5:17). The Lord imparts a practical righteousness (1 John 3:7) to those who hunger and thirst after it (Matthew 5:6).



When we come to Christ and are forgiven of all of our sins, we are no longer under the law (Romans 6:14); we are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19); we are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6). And this means that sin is not imputed to us any longer, God counts us as completely righteous because of our faith, regardless of whether we sin (see also Romans 4:5). So our righteous standing before Him is unchangeable. Now the Lord also begins the process of sanctification, in which He makes us into the people whom He sees us to be in the practical sense. We are being conformed to the image of Christ; we are being made holy even as He is holy. If we do righteousness, we are righteous even as He is righteous (1 John 3:7). Pure, even as he is pure (1 John 3:3). And we will walk even as He walked (1 John 2:6).



The blood of Jesus does not only justify a man; it sanctifies him also (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29).

When the blood is applied to a person's life, is it possible that it would do one thing without also doing the other?



I believe that even if 1 John 3:9 is given as a hyperbolic statement, that its message is in refutation of your statement directly above. It may not be that being born of God, we cannot sin; but I believe that it is certainly true that as people born of God, we have made a 180-degree turn away from the direction of sin. See Proverbs 4:18. I believe that the verse is most certainly telling us that we do not have to sin again in the future; that we can come to a place in our lives where we are walking in complete freedom and victory over sin. The element of sin can indeed be rendered dead in our lives so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour (Galatians 5:24, Romans 6:6, Romans 7:8, Romans 8:13).

We can discuss this...but this is only one element of salvation....more to follow....and then we get into repentance.... But justification alone, it a free gift, not based on any physical action....based on belief. Beyond belief, justification cannot be earned, we will never be worthy of it. Thanks you very much for the scriptures

 

[justbyfaith]

Repentance is also required to be justified; which also is not a work of man; but the work of the Holy Spirit within a man. 2 Timothy 2:25.

 

[Grailhunter]

Repentance is also required to be justified; which also is not a work of man; but the work of the Holy Spirit within a man. 2 Timothy 2:25.

For sure the Holy Spirit may lead us to repentance, but the Holy Spirit does not force repentance on us. There is nothing we can do other than belief that makes us worthy of Justification...

 

[justbyfaith]

For sure the Holy Spirit may lead us to repentance, but the Holy Spirit does not force repentance on us. There is nothing we can do other than belief that makes us worthy of Justification...

Who said that the Holy Spirit forces us? I have always believed Him to be a gentleman.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is no salvation without repentance.

 

[Grailhunter]

There is no salvation without repentance.

We will get into the chicken before the egg later.....ok

 

[justbyfaith]

We will get into the chicken before the egg later.....ok

Yes...If you believe in creationism, then you believe that the chicken came before the egg...if evolution, the egg before the chicken.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes...If you believe in creationism, then you believe that the chicken came before the egg...if evolution, the egg before the chicken.

Its a joke.......I believe flying saucers

 

[justbyfaith]

Its a joke.......I believe flying saucers

Where did the aliens come from? Did aliens plant the seeds of life on their planet? And where did those aliens come from? It can go backwards infinitively. (I believe that this also refutes mormonism). There has to be a divine origin...the buck has to stop somewhere going backwards.

(Don't worry...I am merely adding to the joke).

 

[Grailhunter]

Where did the aliens come from? Did aliens plant the seeds of life on their planet? And where did those aliens come from? It can go backwards infinitively. (I believe that this also refutes mormonism). There has to be a divine origin...the buck has to stop somewhere going backwards.

(Don't worry...I am merely adding to the joke).

I am telling you some of that is a joke.....ever heard of the spaghetti monster god?

 

[justbyfaith]

I am telling you some of that is a joke.....ever heard of the spaghetti monster god?

Tell me...is it the god of Calvinism?