10 different NT warning-types against eternal security

[Zachary]

Revelation 21:7-8 ● “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his
God and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the
lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Again, nothing here that teaches the born again may die again. This only applies if you go in with the presupposition that the unbelieving were once believing. But without that presupposition, the unbelieving are exactly that, not the believing, not the reborn.

Okay, this above I consider to be the most fun to delve into!
But, art thou ready? ... Nah, but maybe someone else is.

The 3 people groups destined for the Lake of Fire:
cowards … unbelievers … habitual sinners

So, we see there are cowards and unrepentant sinners
who are NOT in the vast group of unbelievers.
These cowards and unrepentant sinners are believers!
If you don't see this ... go no further.

The cowardly group includes many different believers
● believers who are afraid to proclaim their belief
● pastors who are afraid to preach Scriptural Truth
● believers afraid to do what they know is God’s will
● believers who do not confront Satan and his demons
● believers who fall away during Christian persecution
● believers who submit to taking the mark of the beast
.

 

[justbyfaith]

I prefer to state this as "the permanence of rebirth".

If someone were to allow sin to become fully-grown in their life after becoming alive in Christ, hypothetically they can die spiritually (James 1:14-16). Yet in John 11:25-27, Jesus makes it clear that if anyone lives and believes in Him, they will never die. And this is not talking about physical death since everyone who believed in Jesus from that point forward has died physically. So it is talking about spiritual life and death. Which would indicate to me that if anyone lives and believes in Jesus, they will never allow sin to become fully-grown in their lives. They will be on their guard against sin; and will never allow it to have full sway to the point that it might bring about spiritual death.

If they were to allow it to do so, it would be a sign to me that they were not alive at all in the first place but were spiritually dead from the getgo.

 

[marks]

The churches are full of so-called "Christians" ...
who are NOT even trying to obey Jesus' commandments.
Believe it, or not.

Question:
Can BACs get away with doing these things,
whilst non-believers cannot get away with doing them?
To me, that would be total insanity!
FYI, I don't think God is insane.
.

What do you mean when you say, "get away with doing them"?

I know there are many who take the name of Christian, without the real meaning behind it, that is, alive in Christ. And those, not believing to be saved, only to join the club, as it were, there is no expectation that their lives will significantly change. They may learn some new behavior, may be filled with a renewed sense of rightness, but not a new life.

And they will be condemned having not received the reconciliation.

We who have received the reconciliation, are just that, reconciled to God. Restored to friendship. And He has promised . . . I will Never leave you. Ever!

Much love!

 

[marks]

But we have a more certain word of prophecy.

Colossians 3
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Application: To those who are risen with Christ. Further identified as those who are dead, their life hid with Christ in God. Died, and risen, these are the born again.

The prophecy: If you are among these who are born again, then You Will Appear with Jesus when He shall appear. You will. Prophecy. Cannot be unfulfilled. God said it so it is a more sure word. If God says it will happen, then it will happen.

Much love!

 

[Zachary]

What do you mean when you say, "get away with doing them"?
I know there are many who take the name of Christian, without the real meaning behind it, that is, alive in Christ. And those, not believing to be saved, only to join the club, as it were, there is no expectation that their lives will significantly change. They may learn some new behavior, may be filled with a renewed sense of rightness, but not a new life.
And they will be condemned having not received the reconciliation.
We who have received the reconciliation, are just that, reconciled to God. Restored to friendship. And He has promised . . . I will Never leave you. Ever!

What do you mean when you say, "get away with doing them"?
Get away with habitual sinning and not being consigned to hell.

And He has promised . . . I will Never leave you. Ever!
Ah, yes ... those who became estranged from Christ and fell from grace ... those ones!
.

 

[marks]

If someone were to allow sin to become fully-grown in their life after becoming alive in Christ, hypothetically they can die spiritually (James 1:14-16). Yet in John 11:25-27, Jesus makes it clear that if anyone lives and believes in Him, they will never die. And this is not talking about physical death since everyone who believed in Jesus from that point forward has died physically. So it is talking about spiritual life and death. Which would indicate to me that if anyone lives and believes in Jesus, they will never allow sin to become fully-grown in their lives. They will be on their guard against sin; and will never allow it to have full sway to the point that it might bring about spiritual death.

If they were to allow it to do so, it would be a sign to me that they were not alive at all in the first place but were spiritually dead from the getgo.

Yet on the other hand . . . we are united to God, one with Him by His Holy Spirit. How much sin will God unite Himself to?

Yes! The one who lives and believes in Jesus, even dying, shall live, and never die! So wonderful! So Safe!

So Much love!

 

[Zachary]

Colossians 3
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Quick note:
IMO, both Ephesians and Colossians were ONLY written to "the faithful".
--------------- 1:1 ----------- 1:2 ---------------------------------------------

The faithful are the BACs who love Jesus enough
to obey His commandments, among other things!
.

 

[marks]

What do you mean when you say, "get away with doing them"?
Get away with habitual sinning and not being consigned to hell.

Haven't you already done that?

And He has promised . . . I will Never leave you. Ever!

Ah, yes ... those who became estranged from Christ and fell from grace ... those ones!
.

Not sure what you mean there, but that is God's promise. He will not leave us or forsake us.

Oh! There's Mark! OH! He's fallen so far down I don't think he can ever stand up again. I guess I'll just leave him there . . . is that our Savior? Not the one I know.

Much love!

 

[Zachary]

If someone were to allow sin to become fully-grown in their life after becoming alive in Christ, hypothetically they can die spiritually (James 1:14-16). Yet in John 11:25-27,
Jesus makes it clear that if anyone lives and believes in Him, they will never die.

Here again, you refuse to accept the teaching
about what the NT word "believe" really means!
It means much different than the secular Greek word pistis, pisteou, etc.
One cannot put into one word what is involved with truly "believing" in the NT.
.

 

[marks]

Okay, this above I consider to be the most fun to delve into!
But, art thou ready? ... Nah, but maybe someone else is.

Let's not presume . . .

 

[Helen]

I'm here to warn those so-called "believers" who are
deceived into grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.

In which case, they believe in OSAS, eternal security, etc.
.

Thanks for the warning. Much appreciated.

 

[marks]

The 3 people groups destined for the Lake of Fire:
cowards … unbelievers … habitual sinners

Actually, there is one people group headed to the lake of fire. Those whose names are not written in the book of life.

And those are described in the passage you've posted, but why would we think that these are all exclusive one from another?

cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars

Are the cowardly not immoral? the liars not unbelieving? The immoral not murderers?

Cowardice is sin, just the same as unbelief is sin, just the same as lying is sin. This is a list of various sorts of sinners. Even if someone isnt' a liar, isn't sexually immoral, isn't a murderer, they are still an unbeliever.

Nothing in this passage teaches us that the born again die again.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thanks for the warning. Much appreciated.

You're so nice!

 

[marks]

Here again, you refuse to accept the teaching
about what the NT word "believe" really means!
It means much different than the secular Greek word pistis, pisteou, etc.
One cannot put into one word what is involved with truly "believing" in the NT.
.

I'll bet you have a good definition, by what you've been writing. Care to share?

 

[Zachary]

We are accepted in the finished work of Christ, not our own works.

Apparently, you are blind to much of the NT.
Our salvation is a co-operative effort between God and us!

E.G. Why do you ignore all of the many conditional "IF" verses in the epistles?
HUH? ... WHY? ... BTW, any excuse will do!
.

 

[Zachary]

I'll bet you have a good definition, by what you've been writing. Care to share?

To put it into one short sentence ...

The whole entirely of the NT dictates that
true saving belief includes obedience.

Obedience to what? ... Jesus' commandments, the teachings in the epistles, etc.
.

 

[marks]

Apparently, you are blind to much of the NT.
Our salvation is a co-operative effort between God and us!

E.G. Why do you ignore all of the many conditional "IF" verses in the epistles?
HUH? ... WHY? ... BTW, any excuse will do!
.

Hi Zachary,

This post is an argument against my person. I'm not here to defend myself.

Was there something you wanted to say or ask?

Much love!

 

[charity]

Did you leave out you, or did I miss you?
.

Hello @Zachary,

I am there.

Zachary, please consider the Corinthians believers, who were known for their carnality, and for some gross sinfulness, which Paul admonished them for: however, did Paul warn them that they would lose their salvation if they did not mend their ways? Did he turn away from them? Did He accuse them of unbelief?

I believe I am born from above, not because of anything within myself, but because God tells me in His Word that I am. I simply believe God, and trust Him, that the work that He has begun in me He will continue to do until the day of Christ. For I am His workmanship. I am grateful that He has imputed His righteousness to me, and sealed me until the day of redemption. For this is what He has done. I believe it, do you?

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Helen]

Okay, this above I consider to be the most fun to delve into!
But, art thou ready? ... Nah, but maybe someone else is.

The 3 people groups destined for the Lake of Fire:
cowards … unbelievers … habitual sinners
So, we see there are cowards and unrepentant sinners who are NOT in the vast group of unbelievers. These cowards and unrepentant sinners are believers!
.

Are the cowardly not immoral? the liars not unbelieving? The immoral not murderers?

Cowardice is sin, just the same as unbelief is sin, just the same as lying is sin. This is a list of various sorts of sinners. Even if someone isnt' a liar, isn't sexually immoral, isn't a murderer, they are still an unbeliever.

Nothing in this passage teaches us that the born again die again.

Much love!

Hi guys.

Just jumping in here...and I see @charity is reading along too.

My take on this is different.

1 Cor 6 9-11. " Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? ...
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

For myself I place the TV preachers who are EXTORTIONERS. Some healing ministeries who are/were ( as A.A Alan..and others today) drunkards...
I stick thieves in there too. They rob the poor...and those many lead pastors who have had/ are having affairs ...adultery ....I could go on .

I do think they are saved...so many started well but went off the rails because of the lust for gold , glory or girls ...
We have not walked in their shoes, so we don't have the same level of temptation from the devil.

I can't call "time" on them, that God's call.

What I see is they will not INHERIT....they will not be in the Company/ Group of the Son's , those who continue the Fathers Business in the Kingdom...on the new earth and in heaven...leadership.

( I know Marks and I have been around this one before )
I see that they have had their period of being tested in leadership and failed the test. There will be found no place of inheritance no 'portion' for them.
They wont sit with the ranks of Abraham, Moses , and the rest of the faithful fathers throughout time...they were not faithful in what they were given to be stewards over.

Just my two cents as I read along with you guys

( I don't need any feed back or derailing of this thread haha! Just wanted to throw my bit in here.....just carry on as if I didn't )

Blessings Helen

 

[marks]

Hi guys.

Just jumping in here...and I see @charity is reading along too.

My take on this is different.

1 Cor 6 9-11. " Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? ...
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

For myself I place the TV preachers who are EXTORTIONERS. Some healing ministeries who are/were ( as A.A Alan..and others today) drunkards...
I stick thieves in there too. They rob the poor...and those many lead pastors who have had/ are having affairs ...adultery ....I could go on .

I do think they are saved...so many started well but went off the rails because of the lust for gold , glory or girls ...
We have not walked in their shoes, so we don't have the same level of temptation from the devil.

I can't call "time" on them, that God's call.

What I see is they will not INHERIT....they will not be in the Company/ Group of the Son's , those who continue the Fathers Business in the Kingdom...on the new earth and in heaven...leadership.

( I know Marks and I have been around this one before )
I see that they have had their period of being tested in leadership and failed the test. There will be found no place of inheritance no 'portion' for them.
They wont sit with the ranks of Abraham, Moses , and the rest of the faithful fathers throughout time...they were not faithful in what they were given to be stewards over.

Just my two cents as I read along with you guys

( I don't need any feed back or derailing of this thread haha! Just wanted to throw my bit in here.....just carry on as if I didn't )

Blessings Helen

On this point I'm not sure we're so far away from each other. While you place into two groups, I see a single group, but with differing glory and service and reward.

Much love!