The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[epostle]

i am sure you do as it has no merit nor can be backed by scripture

Our arguments are backed up with plenty of scripture, your arguments are mindless flaming zingers. I'm still waiting for you to explain how Mary can be chosen and unimportant at the same time, which is stupid and illogical, not to mention many questions you run from. Mary can't do anything without Jesus, yet you persist in silly straw man arguments and false premises that Catholicism does not teach. Also, you don't ask questions, and you load your replies with irrelevant scriptures to give the appearance that you know what your are talking about. Dialogue is exchanging questions and answers, which evidently you are incapable of doing. Back to the iggy bin you go.

 

[epostle]

Catholics for the most part think they know everything, they do know a lot but they are wrong to think they need no correction and no more knowledge of the eternal gospel . Stagnate and married to some non truths is not the way of the Virgin Bride. It is clear what it means to be approved.

In other words, you deny the right for Catholics to defend ourselves, against a steady stream of fallacious arguments. You also assert, indirectly, that you are infallible, having no non-truths and full knowledge of the eternal gospel. You have one opinion amidst 40,000 other opinions, many having no clue what a Virgin Bride means. In the end, it's whatever the individual concludes is true, and absolute truth becomes non-existent.

 

[epostle]

Luke 1:28
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said...

Glory to God,
Taken

Apparently, you're not equipped to discuss Mary's title of "Kecharitomene".

Kecharitomene indicates a completed action – with a permanent result. It translates as “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”

YOUR turn . . .
[/QUOTE]

The great Baptist Greek scholar A.T. Robertson exhibits a Protestant perspective, but is objective and fair-minded, in commenting on this verse as follows:

“Highly favoured” (kecharitomene). Perfect passive participle of charitoo and means endowed with grace (charis), enriched with grace as in Ephesians. 1:6, . . . The Vulgate gratiae plena “is right, if it means ‘full of grace which thou hast received‘; wrong, if it means ‘full of grace which thou hast to bestow‘” (Plummer).
​

Greek scholar Marvin Vincent noted that even Wycliffe and Tyndale (no enthusiastic supporters of the Catholic Church) both rendered kecharitomene in Luke 1:28 as “full of grace” and that the literal meaning was “endued with grace” (Vincent, I, 259).

Likewise, well-known Protestant linguist W.E. Vine, defines it as “to endue with Divine favour or grace” (Vine, II, 171). All these men (except Wycliffe, who probably would have been, had he lived in the 16th century or after it) are Protestants, and so cannot be accused of Catholic translation bias. Even a severe critic of Catholicism like James White can’t avoid the fact that kecharitomene (however translated) cannot be divorced from the notion of grace, and stated that the term referred to “divine favor, that is, God’s grace” (White, 201).

Greek scholar Gerhard Kittel points out:

Grace is the basis of justification and is also manifested in it ([Rom.] 5:20-21). Hence grace is in some sense a state (5:2), although one is always called into it (Gal. 1:6), and it is always a gift on which one has no claim. Grace is sufficient (1 Cor. 1:29) . . . The work of grace in overcoming sin displays its power (Rom. 5:20-21) . . .(Kittel, 1304-1305)
​

Protestant linguist W.E. Vine concurs that charis can mean “a state of grace, e.g., Rom. 5:2; 1 Pet. 5:12; 2 Pet. 3:18” (Vine, II, 170).
Luke 1:28 ("Full of Grace") and the Immaculate Conception

Luke 1:28
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said...

Glory to God,
Taken

Apparently, you're not equipped to discuss Mary's title of "Kecharitomene".

Kecharitomene indicates a completed action – with a permanent result. It translates as “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”

YOUR turn . . .
[/QUOTE] Give it up, BoL, private opinion trumps James White, Tyndale, Wycliffe and four Protestant scholars. Appeals to them falls on deaf ears. Refuting theological chaos is like eliminating flies on a dung heap with a fly swatter.

ME, the Bible and the Holy Spirit mentality​

 

[Taken]

A great encouragement to us, that if we do the Father's will, we will be Jesus' family.

Agree.

Does this somehow negate Mary as His mother?
Not at all.

No one was disputing or negating Mary as His mother.
The dispute was about negating "Importance" of one person over another.

A Catholic's Tradition is to EXALT Mary to an Extreme degree, the same as they do with other "particular" Scripturally Named persons.

A Protestants View is to ACKNOWLEDGE and REMEMBER Mary's role and obedience, the same as other Scripturally Named persons who were called, and obeyed.

If a Protestant does not AGREE with a Catholic on such matters of EXALTING and Placing Traditional IMPORTANCE on one person over another ...
The Catholics Response is to CALL the Protestant an ANTI-CATHOLIC.

If a Protestant does not Understand HOW a Catholic comes to "their" understanding, and asks a Catholic questions....
MANY TIMES....the Catholic states "their" OPINION per their TRADITIONS...and sometimes a "Scriptural" REFERENCE (not a QUOTE), and when you LOOK UP THEIR REFERENCE, it says NOTHING about what their OPINION claimed. When challenged; a Catholic OFTEN THEN resorts to NAME CALLING, "as if", that is satisfactory to MAKE them "Correct", and the other person "WRONG".

Without doubt, God sets the ORDER, WAY, STANDARD that is ACCEPTABLE "TO Him".

And without doubt, MEN set TRADITIONS that is ACCEPTABLE "To THEM".

Without doubt, Protestants and Anti-Protestants DO NOT ALWAYS AGREE on TRADITIONS.

Scripture DOES NOT place a HIGH regard on Traditions of MEN; BUT RATHER DOES place a HIGH Regard ON an INDIVIUDALS relationship BETWEEN the Individual and the Lord God Almighty Himself.

This does not lower Mary's position as His mother but rather exalts those who also do God's will to a familial relationship with Jesus!

I do not see anyone ignoring Mary's position as being chosen as the one to reveal Jesus to the World According to Gods WAY and ORDER.

However I DO see, "some people", ignoring, God Almighty DOES NOT HAVE a BEGINNING, thus does NOT HAVE A Mommy and Daddy.

Peace be with you!

Thank you, and also unto you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Apparently, you're not equipped to discuss Mary's title of "Kecharitomene".

Kecharitomene indicates a completed action – with a permanent result. It translates as “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”

YOUR turn . . .

Apparently, you're not equipped to discuss Mary's title of "Kecharitomene".

Kecharitomene indicates a completed action – with a permanent result. It translates as “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”

YOUR turn . . .
[/QUOTE] Give it up, BoL, private opinion trumps James White, Tyndale, Wycliffe and four Protestant scholars. Appeals to them falls on deaf ears. Refuting theological chaos is like eliminating flies on a dung heap with a fly swatter.

View attachment 7745
ME, the Bible and the Holy Spirit mentality​

[/QUOTE]

What is the purpose of you sending me your gobbledygook nonsense, quotes from other people and stupid photos?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Our arguments are backed up with plenty of scripture, your arguments are mindless flaming zingers.

TYPICAL CATHOLIC COMMENT...

Start a conversation, with a derragatory comment, and then EXPECT a reply!

I'm still waiting for you to explain how Mary can be chosen and unimportant

TYPICAL CATHOLIC COMMENT...

Change the other persons COMMENT, then EXPECT them TO DEFEND, what YOU HAVE SAID "FOR THEM".

NO ONE SAID, MARY WAS "UNIMPORTANT"!!

EXCEPT FOR "YOU"!

WHY do you EXPECT anyone to EXPLAIN WHAT YOU HAVE SAID?

at the same time, which is stupid and illogical, not to mention many questions you run from. Mary can't do anything without Jesus, yet you persist in silly straw man arguments and false premises that Catholicism does not teach. Also, you don't ask questions, and you load your replies with irrelevant scriptures to give the appearance that you know what your are talking about. Dialogue is exchanging questions and answers, which evidently you are incapable of doing. Back to the iggy bin you go.

TYPICAL CATHOLIC COMMENT...

AFTER you have made your opening derratatory remark,
AFTER you have "SPOKEN YOUR WORDS" and claimed it was an others remark,
YOU THEN; BLAB on more derratatory remarks.

Why don't you TRY being a NON-TYPICAL Catholic....and USE the QUOTE FEATURE, of the person SAYING, Mary was "UNIMPORTANT"....??

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Josho]

That’s a flawed understanding of Purgatory.

Purgatory is not where you get to “work off” your sins. It is a state of Final Purification of the elect.
Rev. 21:27 says that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven. How many “perfectly pure” people do YOU know?
Purgatory is only possible because of Christ’s finished work on the cross – not in spite of it.

And make NO mistake – Purgatory IS a Biblical doctrine.

- Matt. 5:25‐26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.”

- Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there IS purification after death for some.

- Matt. 18:32‐35 and Luke 12:58‐59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

In 1 Cor. 3:10‐15, this is how the process is described:
"According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it, for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day (judgment) will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage.
But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person WILL be saved, but only as through fire."

- This cannot be Heaven because the person will SUFFER ‐ and there is NO suffering in Heaven.
- This cannot be Hell because the person will be SAVED ‐ and there is NO salvation in Hell.
- This is describing a THIRD state – a state of Final Purification.

If you have a problem with Purgatory – take it up with Christ . . .

Interesting. Just wanted to ask, this maybe a common Christian misunderstanding from non-denominational Christians and protestants, do most Catholics believe in Hell?

And thanks for explaining Purgatory.

I would expect real Catholics to believe in Hell at the very least, those are just my thoughts though and from your reply here I would take it you believe in both Heaven and Hell along with Purgatory?

And

I never get why other Christians like to bash Catholics so much, as real Catholics are born again too. There's a lot that non-denominational Christians and protestant Christians don't understand about Catholicism, to the point some even believe real Catholics go to hell, and I am going to say right now I don't believe that, I believe there will be a lot of people who were Catholics on earth in Heaven. And if we looked into the lives of some Catholic Saints, they had a really close relationship to God.

 

[epostle]

Interesting. Just wanted to ask, this maybe a common Christian misunderstanding from non-denominational Christians and protestants, do most Catholics believe in Hell?

Yes. I haven't met a Catholic who doesn't believe in hell, but if you look hard enough your bound to find one.

I would expect real Catholics to believe in Hell at the very least, those are just my thoughts though and from your reply here I would take it you believe in both Heaven and Hell along with Purgatory?

Yes.

I never get why other Christians like to bash Catholics so much, as real Catholics are born again too. There's a lot that non-denominational Christians and protestant Christians don't understand about Catholicism, to the point some even believe real Catholics go to hell, and I am going to say right now I don't believe that, I believe there will be a lot of people who were Catholics on earth in Heaven. And if we looked into the lives of some Catholic Saints, they had a really close relationship to God.

Thank you. Your kind demeanor is most refreshing.

 

[Taken]

Luke 1:28
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said...

Glory to God,
Taken

Apparently, you're not equipped to discuss Mary's title of "Kecharitomene".

Kecharitomene Indicates a completed action – with a permanent result. It translates as “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”

YOUR turn . . .
[/QUOTE]



Scripture "reveals" an angel came unto Mary and greeted Mary. (Hail) and notified Mary she was 1) "highly "favoured"...2) the Lord was "WITH" her...3) she was blessed among women.

[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

[29] And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

The angel further notified Mary, "she" had "found favor with God."

[30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: FOR (ie BECAUSE) thou hast found favour with God.

What is your point?

Mary was the ONLY person God has "found favour with" ?

Mary was the ONLY person God has given "His Grace to" ?

Gods Favour and Grace was ONLY given "PERMANENTLY" to Mary?

Something else?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I never get why other Christians like to bash Catholics so much...

Follow a conversation between a Catholic and Non-Catholic.

One speaks their beliefs, another disagrees and speaks their beliefs.
One asks the other for their Scriptural verification.
Regularly, Scriptural "REFERENCES" (not quotes) are given.
Finding the Scriptural reference, then reading the actual quote OFTEN reveals the stated OPINION has nothing to do with the "supposed" verifying Scripture.
Thus ANOTHER disagreement ensues.
And thereafter Comes the ... accusations and name-calling.

Pay attention to WHO Starts the name-calling and derogatory inferences and WHY.
BY and LARGE, the Catholics get that recognition of STARTING the name-calling and derogatory inferences, the moment anyone Disagrees with their Beliefs and Opinions of WHAT Scripture is saying.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CovenantPromise]

In other words, you deny the right for Catholics to defend ourselves, against a steady stream of fallacious arguments. You also assert, indirectly, that you are infallible, having no non-truths and full knowledge of the eternal gospel. You have one opinion amidst 40,000 other opinions, many having no clue what a Virgin Bride means. In the end, it's whatever the individual concludes is true, and absolute truth becomes non-existent.

Please .......take it up with God!

Rev.14
Revelation 14 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
14 Then I looked, and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Tziyon (Zion); and with him were 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing waters and like the sound of pealing thunder; the sound I heard was also like that of harpists playing on their harps. 3 They were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living beings and the elders, and no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who have been ransomed from the world. 4 These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; they follow the Lamb wherever he goes; they have been ransomed from among humanity as firstfruits for God and the Lamb; 5 on their lips no lie was found — they are without defect.

6 Next I saw another angel flying in mid-heaven with everlasting Good News to proclaim to those living on the earth — to every nation, tribe, language and people.

epostle said:
"that you are infallible, having no non-truths and full knowledge of the eternal gospel."

YUP! What is apportioned to me is without defect in knowledge .Those who are firstfruits= those who will be part of the first resurrection -are VIRGINS= They are perfected before the global tribulation begins. They have not been defiled by women which means Denomination's false doctrines- (THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FALSELY INDOCTRINATED ) . Calling the denominations and sects of "women" is upheld by the Song of Solomon 6 :7-9
Together in the Garden
…7Your brow behind your veil is like a slice of pomegranate. 8There are sixty queens and eighty concubines, and maidens without number, 9but my dove, my perfect one, is unique, the favorite of the mother who bore her. The maidens see her and call her blessed; the queens and concubines sing her praises.…

The mother who bore the VIRGINS is Mother Miryam (Mary) . This group is the favored of the Queen of heaven who personally selected them for her Son, in Wisdom and charges us "do whatever HE TELLS YOU." They ,like her and Moses are given a new Song. That means it is the eternal gospel proclaimed in a NEW way. It has not been heard in the manner they have been given it and they are the only ones who can learn it. Not all Christians are first fruits. There are two resurrections.
Making virgins is what the first church was purposed in doing for this end Time elect group.

2Corinthians 11:21

2I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. For I promised you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.

You are Not a VIRGIN!
No lie on their lips means that what they proclaim -which is a NEW SONG -is the pure undiluted gospel not influenced by the denominations "doctrinal fathers" - those who are esteemed as such but have flaws in their doctrines.

You cling to all of which comes from your denominations irregardless of faults. Right or wrong , you are Catholic more, first and foremost and second Christian. Therefore ,you are Not a FIRST FRUIT, GET IT?

You are in union with the (father-in-laws) that means in the LAWS of the TRADITIONS of men not necessarily in PURE TRUTH either. You use some truth and the rest is their erroneous doctrines. All the denominations do that.

I am a widow, I have no husband of them and therefore, am desolate . I am being purposed for ONE husband -Christ, He alone is my husband. My heart, soul and mind is in SOLE union with Him. Therefore , I am to be perfect as my husband is . For a bride is a reflection of her husband who rules over her. That is the purpose of the 144, 000 of Rev.14. They are chosen out of All the nations. Rev. 7 is another group chosen and sealed out of the 12 Tribes of Israel. This is the End Time Elect FIRSTFRUITS= those who will be part of the First Resurrection .

We are still growing. So yes I am part of the few. Considering this small Elect, it is no wonder you point out I am 1 in what , 40,000 who thinks as I do. That according to your math?
Continued.......

 

[CovenantPromise]

Isaiah 54:1

Future Blessings for Zion 1“Shout for joy, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth into song and
cry aloud, you who have never travailed; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who
has a husband,” says the LORD. 2“Enlarge the site of your tent, stretch out the curtains of your dwellings, do
not hold back. Lengthen your ropes and drive your stakes deep.…



More valuable , NOT MORE IN QUANTITY but RATHER QUALITY will be the children I bring forth-
THAT THE REV.14 (Zion)= INDICATION OF THE SUMMIT OF THE FAITH =SUMMIT OF KNOWL-
EDGE which is theirs to have according to the Will of the Father. Because I/We -those of Rev.14 have a NEW
Song we do not fit into any one particular denomination. We are rejected because we cannot be married to any
in fullness because of defilement. So we are considered DESOLATE-(of a place) deserted of people and in a
state of bleak and dismal emptiness.



For a while this is our state, given that we are few and far between and as you said....well do the math. From
where each of the 144, 000 are we enlarge the SITE of our tent. We stretch out the Curtains (Grace ) of our
dwellings. Notice 'SITE' is singular and 'DWELLINGS' is plural? That is because we are of one MIND even
though for now we dwell in dispersion . We will all be united in Israel after the sixth seal . This will be a super-
natural gathering being bore up on EAGLES wings= By the Power of God ALONE! Christ is going to move
heaven and earth for His Elect. At the Hallelujah -Rev.19 the two sticks will be joined together and be one
House.



Ezekiel 37:17

One Nation with One King

…16“And you, son of man, take a single stick and write on it: ‘Belonging to Judah and to the Israelites associ-
ated with him.’ Then take another stick and write on it: ‘Belonging to Joseph—the stick of Ephraim—and to all
the house of Israel associated with him.’ 17Then join them together into one stick, so that they become one in
your hand. 18When your people ask you, ‘Won’t you explain to us what you mean by these?’…



"belonging to Joseph" that means those out of gentile nations . For Joseph was exalted among the gentiles. This
is a precursor of what would be concerning the Messiah. The Messiah -The Lord, is greatly honored among the
nations outside of Israel. " Our Sacred and Immaculate Hearts shall TRIUMPH" . You have no clue what is
coming! I am to sing regardless of acceptance . For a little while I am dejected and spurned but the Lord will
not forsake me. As He will not forsake Israel (Jacob the remnant). I could get into all the deep interps. of scrip-
ture but there would not be enough time nor space to share all I know because it is eternal.

Jeremiah 9:24

24But let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD, who exercises
loving devotion, justice and righteousness on the earth— for I delight in these things,” declares the LORD.



Blessed Be the name of the Lord, His Mercy endures forever!

 

[Mungo]

Answer my questions. The only one trolling is you.

Here you are since you don't seem willing to look: - post #21

If you looked at the context of CCC 1475 instead of ripping it out you would see that it is not referring to atoning for the eternal consequences for sin - the punishment due to our offence against God. That is what Jesus did for us.

But when we sin we also damage ourselves - we turn towards things in creation that we put before God. We also damage others. If I steal a £1,000 from someone they are £1,000 poorer. I need to repent and ask God's forgiveness for that sin but should also make amends for what I have done to the other person - ideally by paying back the £1,000. We have to make some form of satisfaction.

Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance." (CCC 1459). It is that form of expiation that 1475 refers to not the offence against God.

 

[CovenantPromise]

Mungo , there is no truth in the Catechism that is not FIRST found in the foundation.
Matthew 5:36
Anger and Reconciliation
…25Reconcile quickly with your adversary, while you are still on the way to court. Otherwise he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Reconciliation is Penance.

But there are some faults in the Catechism . What is your stance on Homosexual orientation Mungo? And what does orientation mean? What is your stance concerning popes? Is it one that overlooks a pope's false doctrine? Does false doctrine govern the Virgin bride or does Christ? What does the Catechism say about the pope being the head of the Church? Do you put the Catechism above the Written Word? Lastly do you think I can prove without a doubt that the Catechism is not perfect as the written Word of God is?

 

[Nondenom40]

Here you are since you don't seem willing to look: - post #21

If you looked at the context of CCC 1475 instead of ripping it out you would see that it is not referring to atoning for the eternal consequences for sin - the punishment due to our offence against God. That is what Jesus did for us.

But when we sin we also damage ourselves - we turn towards things in creation that we put before God. We also damage others. If I steal a £1,000 from someone they are £1,000 poorer. I need to repent and ask God's forgiveness for that sin but should also make amends for what I have done to the other person - ideally by paying back the £1,000. We have to make some form of satisfaction.

Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance." (CCC 1459). It is that form of expiation that 1475 refers to not the offence against God.

You didn't answer my questions. First it IS atoning for sin. This is what 'make satisfaction for' and 'expiate' means. Look it up. It goes right back to Romans 3:25 and propitiation. Jesus is our propitiation, not you or me. Now lets look at 1422

1422 "Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God's mercy for the offense committed against him, and are, at the same time, reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by their sins and which by charity, by example, and by prayer labors for their conversion."

Thats atonement. The only one doing any ripping out of context are the catholics that water down terms to fit their theology.

 

[Nondenom40]

Apparently, you're not equipped to discuss Mary's title of "Kecharitomene".

Kecharitomene indicates a completed action – with a permanent result. It translates as “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”

YOUR turn . . .

Kecharitomene isn't a title. She was favored by God. And the word doesn't mean full of grace either. I haven't found a lexicon yet that says charitoo means full of grace. Unless that can be provided??

 

[CovenantPromise]

Kecharitomene isn't a title. She was favored by God. And the word doesn't mean full of grace either. I haven't found a lexicon yet that says charitoo means full of grace. Unless that can be provided??

Can one be highly favored and it not mean full of grace? The angel Gabriel was making a pronouncement of what was about to happen. At her "YES" it is fulfilled. Not before her consent. Faith is a dance in which one follows God's lead.
Luke 1:26-37
Gabriel Foretells Jesus’ Birth

26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, 27to a virgin pledged in marriage to a man named Joseph, who was of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel appeared to her and said, “Greetings,b you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.c ” 29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30So the angel told her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!” 34“How can this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of God. 36Look, even Elizabeth your relative has conceived a son in her old age, and she who was called barren is in her sixth month. 37For no word from God will ever fail.e ” 38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May it happen to me according to your word.” Then the angel left her.

One can not be "highly favored" without Grace. Grace is not by merit of ones own strength, but rather is extended to you in Mercy. All are saved by grace.
Ephesians 2:7-8
Alive with Christ
…7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.…

Grace is a favor extended to you through Mercy (Christ). In the biblical sense:
do honor or credit to (someone or something) by one's presence. And it was at the Annunciation that the Power of the Most High overshadowed the Mother Elect of Christ.

Luke 1:46
Mary's Song
45Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord’s word to her will be fulfilled.” 46Then Mary said: “My soul magnifies the Lord, 47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!…

When was that fulfilled? When was she saved? Was it before Mercy (Christ)came? To be saved means to be redeemed and saved from the penalties which come from sin. So how , if in her mothers' womb was she already SAVED? How could she exclaim that something be done to her according to Fulfillment in TIME -(THEN), before the Word of the Lord spoke it to her? When was His purpose announced to her, in her mother's womb or when the angel came to her? If Catholic doctrine is correct, then why did she say "my soul magnifies the Lord" and "MY SPIRIT REJOICES IN GOD MY SAVIOR", if she was saved prior to this revelation? Order of events . And the scriptures from Genesis 3:15 up to the NT tell us the order of events. Her Immaculate Conception is in Christ at her 'YES" . She is received and conceived of His Spirit IMMACULATELY and Born again of Him at His Birth ." The second/last Adam is a life giving Spirit" This is how she is the Immaculate Conception . With every birth , even a spiritual one , there is a conception. Hers was Immaculate at her "YES" to receiving the Holy Seed-THE WORD OF GOD!

That is when the ENMITY spoken of in Genesis 3:15 came between satan's seed=knowledge and the Woman. The Holy Spirit came between her and satan and removed all the stain of the knowledge of sin. The Holy Spirit had to be placed between her and satan in order to be between satan and HER SEED (CHILD) . She had to therefore, be purified in order for Christ, who has no sin to be born of her flesh without sin. But it could not happen BEFORE the annunciation because then the truths spoken by St.Paul the apostle and Timothy would be null and void. She is not the exception to the rule . For God is no author of confusion but peace. She is taken from the same lump of clay= Humanity. Her distinction came at God's pronouncement of purpose for her. And the potter then fashioned her for the HIGHEST BEAUTY IN GRACE. As Eve is born of Adam's flesh Mother Miryam(Mary) is born of Christ- the Life Giving Spirit.

To be continued.....

 

[CovenantPromise]

Romans 3:23
Righteousness through Faith
…22And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ (to all who believe).
Now look at Luke 1:45
45Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord’s word to her will be fulfilled.”
Continue Romans:
There is no distinction, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.…

Through the redemption that is IN CHRIST JESUS. Hence, why her spirit rejoices in God her Savior. She is Calling Christ God and her Savior.

Romans 5:12-21
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
(Genesis 3:1-7)

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. 13For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed. He is a pattern of the One to come. 15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many! 16Again, the gift is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment that followed one sin brought condemnation, but the gift that followed many trespasses brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! 18So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. 20The law came in so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And Mother Miryam (Mary) was assumed into heaven at Christ's final ascension. It is in the Psalms those who are in to Theology know , many of the Psalms are prophecies.
Psalm 132:8
…7Let us go to His dwelling place; let us worship at His footstool. 8Arise, O LORD, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. 9May Your priests be clothed with righteousness, and Your saints shout for joy.…

Since the Catholics are correct that she is the Ark of the New Covenant they will get this as will the Orthodox who know she is Theotokos. They will understand that she is the FIRST of the New Covenant to be TRANSFORMED in a moment , in a twinkling of an eye , and that mortal put on immortality. She is the TYPE and example of those who will not fall asleep to the earth. They will be snatched up at the last trumpet.

She is the Ark of His strength, meaning given strength BY HIM . Christ did not take up the obsolete ark. I appreciate the Queens and when possible I acknowledge the good they have preserved of the faith . However, the queens also have been arrogant and harlots so have the concubines. They have tried to supersede Christ's authority. That is why He has taken notice of those who do not buy into all the doctrines of the Queens or concubines. Maidens without number are those who still are to be counted in Him (Song of Solomon).

Keep this as food for thought, it is just a glimpse into what the 144, 000 have been given. I will elaborate on 'Immaculate Conception' and Christ's ascensions if need be. That is if PRIDE does not govern all in here. Take what I have to say or leave it, all have freewill to choose.
God Bless!
Pause......

 

[CovenantPromise]

2Tim.3 Verses 16 to 17
[16] All scripture is God breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Profitable for doctrine- making
For Reproof-an expression of blame or disapproval.
For Correction-the action or process of correcting something,a change that rectifies an error or inaccuracy,used to introduce an amended version of something one has just said.

For Instruction-a direction or order,detailed information telling how something should be done, operated, or assembled.

Righteousness-the quality of being morally right or justifiable.

If men's doctrines can not stand upon the FOUNDATION LAID -CHRIST JESUS,then it is NOT RIGHTEOUS DOCTRINE NOR ARE THE ONES WHO BUILT THE FALSE DOCTRINE and /or adhere to it.

PERFECT-having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.

Hence, why Christ said: "be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect" This is only possible with Mercy and Grace . The scriptures are our lesson book in essence ,which helps us to accomplish becoming perfect and thoroughly furnishes us in knowing the TRUTH present in all and for us to be furnished unto all good works.

 

[farouk]

2Tim.3 Verses 16 to 17
[16] All scripture is God breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Profitable for doctrine- making
For Reproof-an expression of blame or disapproval.
For Correction-the action or process of correcting something,a change that rectifies an error or inaccuracy,used to introduce an amended version of something one has just said.

For Instruction-a direction or order,detailed information telling how something should be done, operated, or assembled.

Righteousness-the quality of being morally right or justifiable.

If men's doctrines can stand upon the FOUNDATION LAID -CHRIST JESUS then it is NOT RIGHTEOUS DOCTRINE NOR ARE THE ONES WHO BUILD THE FALSE DOCTRINE and /or adhere to it.

PERFECT-having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.

Hence, why Christ said: "be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect" This is only possible with Mercy and Grace . The scriptures are our lesson book in essence ,which helps us to accomplish becoming perfect and thoroughly furnish us in knowing the TRUTH present in all and for us to furnished unto all good works.

Great post! we need to be immersed prayerfully in the Word, indeed.