The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective
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Nondenom40
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Of course. Mary is a great example. But then so are all believers in Jesus. Highly favored does not mean full of grace. This is just basic grammar 101. Which makes the rest of your post moot.
To be specific. Her 'yes' was in response to a command, not a question. The text says 'you will...', not 'will you...'
And?
Grace by definition is unmerited favor.
She wasn't, thats how. Mary's IC is a fabrication told by rome, not scripture. Not a hint in all of Gods word about mary being sinless from her mothers womb. Youre simply connecting dots that don't exist.
A. Catholic doctrine is not correct. Its flawed, and that greatly!
B. She rejoiced in God her savior because she is a sinner in need of salvation, just like you and I.
Said the bible nowhere. Lurkers behold, eisegesis at its best.
More about Immaculate Conception. Since she is the first to be conceived and born again of Christ Spirit, she is the Immaculate Conception of Christianity from which all proceeds . MERCY did this for her and Grace made it so. From her Cup to all others then.
The idea of the supposed immaculate conception supposes that Mary was without sin. Whereas she too needed a Saviour; 'my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour' (Luke 2).
As are you flawed. And you are given freewill to express your opinion. As I said only the 144,000 can learn the song. Carry On!
BreadOfLife
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Yes, Catholics believe in Hell.
It was the Catholic Church that taught the world about Heaven and Hell.
And thank you for your charitable tone. That's a rare commodity around here.
Nondenom40
Active Member
I see. You prefer monologue over dialogue. A true catholic indeed! Anyone that disagrees with YOUR interpretation HAS to be wrong. When you can't correctly define basic biblical words then i'd say you are the one that is flawed.
Simple test. Just show us where a lexicon defines charitoo as full of grace. We'll wait. If youre unwilling to do that tiny bit of legwork then i don't know what to tell you.
She is clear but what is not is the definition. Satan had to throw a wrench into the mix so that the true understanding of Immaculate Conception would not be received. Immaculate Conception was a discussion in Christian circles long before it was defined. Tell me what birth has no conception?
No , anyone who does not agree with Truth rather, is not Christian! I am simply Christian.
Nondenom40
Active Member
I tried getting us back on track discussing the topic, purgatory. So when catholics go ape over the current IC discussion point to your own. If you want to flesh out marys IC, start a thread. And btw, your post is simply an argument from emotion. Not a lick of it in scripture to back up anything you just said.
The Lord Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost; though Mary was not sinless, which is what the "Immaculate Conception" is theologically taken to mean.
Nondenom40
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You haven't presented any truth, but romes version of the truth. Hardly a trustworthy source.
BreadOfLife
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Like I said before – you are obviously NOT equipped to discuss Mary’s God-given title of “Kecharitomene”.
Just to let you know – the NT wasn’t written in King James English. It was written in Koine Greek.
It DIDN’T say or “Hail, thou that art highly favoured“.
It says:
χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη
“Hail Kecharitomene.”
As I schooled you earlier – Kecharitomene is the perfect passive participle, indicates a completed action with permanent result. It translates, “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.”
NOBODY else in ALL of Scripture is given this title.
Until you can wrap your mind around that fact – you aren‘t equipped to discuss this rationally . . .
I know but how about what the scriptures show it means? And since it is NOT A WRAP , there is much to learn still. And that's why the scriptures are for correction . Hence, why Timothy wrote what he wrote , right? The problem is , you never accepted mother Mary in the way the queens have to begin with. It is out of them that I have been called to come into my own song.
farouk if division is your claim to fame or rather infamy before God have at it. I am simply for truth and I will reach across denominational lines to collect Truth. I am a gold digger and only in it for the finest. The queens have some gold silver and precious gems and some hay wood and straw. Not into the straw , hay and wood. Concubines because they have no Rites have only silver if anything worth keeping and a lot of hay wood and straw doctrine.
I will not be forsaken and I must experience this until the appointed hour . If you cannot come along in growth don't. To each his own. I know I am 100% right. And I know the daughters of Jerusalem have shared a lot of gold and precious gems.
I hear a lot of noise but no proof against what I am saying ,with scripture. Opinion is not approval in fact. I used scripture to uphold all I shared. It is simply the last hour of the End of the age. Christ is cleaning house. Those who are daughters of Jerusalem- meaning: those who have been grafted into the the Original Olive Tree by DIRECT means of apostles. They are queens and are daughters of Jerusalem. You are probably of some concubine denomination in origin or decided you prefer the concubines that have no Rites or esteem of mother Mary and saints.
The daughters of Jerusalem who receive what I say will keep it close to breast until the sign of the appropriate time. Those who keep it and share at the appropriate time are Daughters of Jerusalem who grow into the Shulammite. This is not going to be accepted by the harlots that have arisen in them and refuse to grow. Christ is going to cut them off completely, the Harlot Body . The Hallelujah is COMING! The final stage of what I am saying will be driven in deep by the Two Witnesses who will affirm the Shulammite- Kuria(The Noble Lady from the place of Peace) and bring about the sixth seal or Second Woe. The Two Witnesses will arrive on the scene during the First Woe the CALAMITY COMING ! The sounding of the Trumpets which bring upon the earth the GLOBAL trial! Daughters of Jerusalem "do not stir up love before it's time" . When the Two Witness arrive and affirm what the Shulammite says THEN they will fully understand if they do not now.
Great purging discussion I think. Right on topic for those who: "some souls are Blessed to do their purgatory here on earth" Mother Miryam (Mary).
Oh! many of the messages to the Roman Church have been hi-jacked by the harlots but I have them. God Bless the Roman Church, not part of the Body of the harlot.
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The church which is in Rome is not the only daughter of Jerusalem. We have the Coptic Church of Egypt which St. Mark started. The Ethiopian Church which Philip started.The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo assembly has not been absorbed into the Catholic as have the Ethiopian Orthodox church they are different but both queens . The Church in India - St.Thomas. St. Paul the church of Syria so forth and so on. I will show how there are sixty queens and eighty concubines etc.... another time in a thread. But as for compiling scriptures Rome did that for the rest of the world that did not know of Christianity and commissioned men to go forth. Seeding Rome was a good thing. What the harlots did is on them. . There is more to share as I said= for a thread.
I did look it up.
To quote from post #34
[expiate
atone for (guilt or wrongdoing).
satisfaction
2. Law the payment of a debt or fulfilment of an obligation or claim.
Both from the Concise Oxford English Dictionary
Both terms are applicable to the wrong we do to others.]
In the context of the wrong we do to others the Catechism equates 'expiate' to 'make satisfaction'.
From the section on Satisfaction
1459 Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused. Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance."
Perhaps you did not understand my explanation of the double effect of sin.
Here is how the catechism explains it in the section on Indulgences:
1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.
Going back to the section on Satisfaction it says under 1460 (and note the part I have emboldened)
Such penances help configure us to Christ, who alone expiated our sins once for all. They allow us to become co-heirs with the risen Christ, "provided we suffer with him." [Rom 8:17; Rom 3:25; 1 Jn 2:1-2;]
The satisfaction that we make for our sins, however, is not so much ours as though it were not done through Jesus Christ. We who can do nothing ourselves, as if just by ourselves, can do all things with the cooperation of "him who strengthens" us. Thus man has nothing of which to boast, but all our boasting is in Christ . . . in whom we make satisfaction by bringing forth "fruits that befit repentance." These fruits have their efficacy from him, by him they are offered to the Father, and through him they are accepted by the Father.
You see. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is the expiation for out sins and the Catechism references Rom 3:25
What is your problem with 1422.?
I haven't been following your posts so I don't know what you mean by 'foundation'.
Moreover you last paragraph is just an off topic rant which I have no intention of following.
That is up to you to forgo Christian Charity. Your rejection of what I said does not make ME no less Christian. My Charity is not in question because I clearly read what people say before I respond . Otherwise I am just arrogant. But I am not, I read because I consider others more important than myself. As for foundation, if you do not know what the scriptures say concerning that then that explains a lot .
1 Corinthians 3:
Christ Our Foundation
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw,…
Maybe you would know that if you read it and BELIEVED.
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