The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[reformed1689]

You claimed that grace and sanctification were NOT the same thing.
This is wrong.

Grace and sanctification ARE NOT the same. No reputable scholar would say they were the same thing. That's nonsense.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't say they could. This is a red herring argument.

 

[reformed1689]

Wrong.
We are not COMPLETED in grace. The Holy Spirit sanctifies us throughout our lifetime (Gal. 5:5).

Grace and sanctification are not synonyms.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Grace and sanctification ARE NOT the same. No reputable scholar would say they were the same thing. That's nonsense.

Then illustrate to me how one is sanctified WITHOUT grace.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No I did not say that.

Soooooo, those is Heaven do NOT have perfectly completed grace??

 

[reformed1689]

Soooooo, those is Heaven do NOT have perfectly completed grace??

Also not what I said. Strawman.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Grace and sanctification are not synonyms.

Sanctifyng grace is a reality that even the most respected Protestant scholars agree with - like R. C. Sproul:
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/grace-sanctification/

 

[reformed1689]

Then illustrate to me how one is sanctified WITHOUT grace.

I didn't say that. Strawman.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Also not what I said. Strawman.

Then, what ARE you saying??

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't say that. Strawman.

Then explain what you DID say.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I didn't say that. Strawman.

Also not what I said. Strawman.

 

[reformed1689]

Sanctifyng grace is a reality that even the most respected Protestant scholars agree with - like R. C. Sproul:
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/grace-sanctification/

First, I'm a ministry partner of Ligonier. Second, RC Sproul did NOT say that grace equals sanctification. You definitely did not read that in that article.

 

[reformed1689]

Then explain what you DID say.

Read it. It is not hard to understand.

 

[BreadOfLife]

First, I'm a ministry partner of Ligonier. Second, RC Sproul did NOT say that grace equals sanctification. You definitely did not read that in that article.

The article is about the doctrine of SANCTIFYING GRACE.
The article is called. "The Grace Of Sanctification".

Whereas, I disagree with him on some points - sanctifying grace is one type of grace.

Again - your denials don't equal truth . . .

 

[reformed1689]

The article is about the doctrine of SANCTIFYING GRACE.
The article is called. "The Grace Of Sanctification".

Whereas, I disagree with him on some points - sanctifying grace is one type of grace.

Again - your denials don't equal truth . . .

But the article does not say that grace and sanctification are the same thing.

 

[reformed1689]

Again - your denials don't equal truth . . .

More like your twisting of words and definitions don't equal truth.

 

[Taken]

BOOM! There goes this perpetual virgin nonsense out the door! Can't argue with that.

:cool:

 

[Taken]

BOL
You cannot be COMPLETELY, PERFECTLY and ENDURINGLY endowed with grace and have sin.

Sure.

Stephen was COMPLETED (FULL) in grace at the point of his martyrdom (Acts 7:8).


Acts 7
[8] And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

He saw the heavens open op to welcome him and saw Christ sitting at the Father's right hand (Acts 7:56).

Acts 7: 56
[56] And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Rev. 21:27

states emphatically that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven.
Ergo, Stephen entered Heaven PERFECT in grace (sinless).

YOUR turn . . .

It is Mary you claimed was Full of Grace.
It is Full of Grace you claim means SINLESS.

Then you deflect to Stephen:
With the wrong scripture...

You claim at the POINT of Stephens martyrdom... Stephen Became Full of Grace.

Then you quote:
Rev 21:27...as SEE...one can not enter HEAVEN less it is SiNLESS.

You make an utter mess twisting the Facts.

EVERY human earthly man is:
Conceived IN Sin;
Born in Sin;
Commits Sin;

Grace does not mean SINLESS.

Grace from God is a GIFT TO: Undeserving: Earthly men conceived, born, committer of Sin.

Adam, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, David, Joseph, Mary, Steven, every disciple, every Apostle....ALL Human Earthly people....
were naturally conceived in sin,
were naturally born in sin,
were naturally comitters of sin.

All Human earthly people...
WHO accept Gods Gift of Grace...
ARE accepting Gods WAY (order), for the person TO BECOME "FORGIVEN" their SIN...
and and Gifts of God for the person to:
Become Dead,
Be Restored,
Born Again.
Made Anew.
Raised in Glory (sinless).

You seem to be completely unaware...
An earthly man...
Has:
a flesh body.......that IS sin.
a living soul.......that COMMITS sin.
a natural spirit...that is VOID of the truth.

A Flesh body....can become forgiven.
A Living soul....can become forgiven.
A natural spirit..can become forgiven.

But FORGIVENESS from God, IS not the completion...

A flesh body....MUST become "DEAD", before it can be "CHANGED" to SINLESS.

A Living soul....CAN become RESTORED, once the BODY is DEAD.

A Natural spirit...CAN become BORN AGAIN, with Gods SEED, Gods TRUTH, once the BODY is DEAD.

Nothing in Scripture teaches......
ANY earthly mans "BODY" has gone to Heaven.

That which GOES UP to Heaven;
IS:
Restored souls, of earthly DEAD bodies.
Born again spirits, of earthly DEAD bodies.

That which APPLIED to OT men...
Does NOT ALL APPLY to men SINCE Jesus' manifestation ON EARTH.

One thing that APPLIES to OT men AND men SINCE Jesus' manifestation on earth;

IS;
Restored souls, of earthly DEAD Bodies go to Heaven.
Born Again spirit, of earthly DEAD Bodies go to Heaven.

DEAD BODIES of ALL earthly men;
RETURN to the Dust of the EARTH.

You claiming MARY was "SINLESS" from her natural birth; is False.

You claiming Stephen was "SINLESS": is False.

You do not follow the ORDER and WAY, of Gods TRUTH.

Every PART (soul, spirit, body) of a human earthly man, MUST BECOME CHANGED....BEFORE a human man IS BECOME...."SINLESS".

Souls of men are being restored daily.
Spirits of men are being born again daily.
Body's of men are dying daily.
Body's of men are returning to dust daily.

Restored Souls of Dead Bodies are going Up to Heaven daily.
Born again spirits of Dead Bodies are going Up to Heaven daily.

No Bodies of earthly humans have BEEN Raised UP in Glory, and gone UP to Heaven.

A man with A restored soul, and Born Again Spirit.......IS SEALED unto God......that that man BELONGS Exclusively TO GOD.

And ON the DAY...of Gods choosing..HE SHALL raise up (IN GLORY) ... (without SIN),
ALL the men SEALED unto Him....

Until THEN...NO human earthly man ....
"IS SINLESS" !

Human earthly men ARE BEING "PREPARED", to "BECOME" raised IN A Body of Glory....and THEN SINLESS.

Per usual, you are out of ORDER, according to Gods WAY. And your teaching reflects a deviation from Gods WAY.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is Mary you claimed was Full of Grace.
It is Full of Grace you claim means SINLESS.

Then you deflect to Stephen:
With the wrong scripture...

You claim at the POINT of Stephens martyrdom... Stephen Became Full of Grace.

Then you quote:
Rev 21:27...as SEE...one can not enter HEAVEN less it is SiNLESS.

You make an utter mess twisting the Facts.

EVERY human earthly man is:
Conceived IN Sin;
Born in Sin;
Commits Sin;

Grace does not mean SINLESS.

Grace from God is a GIFT TO: Undeserving: Earthly men conceived, born, committer of Sin.

Adam, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, David, Joseph, Mary, Steven, every disciple, every Apostle....ALL Human Earthly people....
were naturally conceived in sin,
were naturally born in sin,
were naturally comitters of sin.

All Human earthly people...
WHO accept Gods Gift of Grace...
ARE accepting Gods WAY (order), for the person TO BECOME "FORGIVEN" their SIN...
and and Gifts of God for the person to:
Become Dead,
Be Restored,
Born Again.
Made Anew.
Raised in Glory (sinless).

You seem to be completely unaware...
An earthly man...
Has:
a flesh body.......that IS sin.
a living soul.......that COMMITS sin.
a natural spirit...that is VOID of the truth.

A Flesh body....can become forgiven.
A Living soul....can become forgiven.
A natural spirit..can become forgiven.

But FORGIVENESS from God, IS not the completion...

A flesh body....MUST become "DEAD", before it can be "CHANGED" to SINLESS.

A Living soul....CAN become RESTORED, once the BODY is DEAD.

A Natural spirit...CAN become BORN AGAIN, with Gods SEED, Gods TRUTH, once the BODY is DEAD.

Nothing in Scripture teaches......
ANY earthly mans "BODY" has gone to Heaven.

That which GOES UP to Heaven;
IS:
Restored souls, of earthly DEAD bodies.
Born again spirits, of earthly DEAD bodies.

That which APPLIED to OT men...
Does NOT ALL APPLY to men SINCE Jesus' manifestation ON EARTH.

One thing that APPLIES to OT men AND men SINCE Jesus' manifestation on earth;

IS;
Restored souls, of earthly DEAD Bodies go to Heaven.
Born Again spirit, of earthly DEAD Bodies go to Heaven.

DEAD BODIES of ALL earthly men;
RETURN to the Dust of the EARTH.

You claiming MARY was "SINLESS" from her natural birth; is False.

You claiming Stephen was "SINLESS": is False.

You do not follow the ORDER and WAY, of Gods TRUTH.

Every PART (soul, spirit, body) of a human earthly man, MUST BECOME CHANGED....BEFORE a human man IS BECOME...."SINLESS".

Souls of men are being restored daily.
Spirits of men are being born again daily.
Body's of men are dying daily.
Body's of men are returning to dust daily.

Restored Souls of Dead Bodies are going Up to Heaven daily.
Born again spirits of Dead Bodies are going Up to Heaven daily.

No Bodies of earthly humans have BEEN Raised UP in Glory, and gone UP to Heaven.

A man with A restored soul, and Born Again Spirit.......IS SEALED unto God......that that man BELONGS Exclusively TO GOD.

And ON the DAY...of Gods choosing..HE SHALL raise up (IN GLORY) ... (without SIN),
ALL the men SEALED unto Him....

Until THEN...NO human earthly man ....
"IS SINLESS" !

Human earthly men ARE BEING "PREPARED", to "BECOME" raised IN A Body of Glory....and THEN SINLESS.

Per usual, you are out of ORDER, according to Gods WAY. And your teaching reflects a deviation from Gods WAY.

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, everybody is aware of your Docetist Heresy and the fact that you reject Christ's Scripturally-revealed humanity (Heb. 2:18).
ALL of your fellow anti-Catholics havce abandoned you on this point because they are Christians - and this is an anti-Christian heresy.

 

[BreadOfLife]

More like your twisting of words and definitions don't equal truth.

No - Sanctifying Grace is a BIBLICAL reality (1 Cor. 6:11, 2 Thess. 2:13).
.