The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

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BreadOfLife

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Here is the situation....

Jesus in Matt says "go ye therefore...."

Peter went and did it in Acts 2:38.

Trinitarians only parrot Jesus' words instead of doing what He said to do.

Jesus commanded "baptize in a name"...Peter did...Trins refuse.
Another asinine comparison.

Trinitarians DO "go therefore" and Baptize in the name of the Father AND OF the Son AND OF the Holy Spirit.
Heretics don't . . .
 

Truther

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Nope - God is ONE - He is manifested in Three PERSONS.
ONE God - THREE Persons.
Time for another Bible lesson . . .

The Father is God
Ephesians 4:6

One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Psalm 68:5
Father of the fatherless and protector of widows is God in his holy habitation.

Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why then are we faithless to one another, profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Isaiah 63:16
For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 8:41
You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”

1 Thessalonians 3:13
So that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus.

The Son is God
Isaiah 7:14

All right then, the Lord himself will give you the sign. Look! The virgin will conceive a child! She will give birth to a son and will call him Immanuel (which means 'God is with us').

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Matt. 4:7
Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God.

John 1:3
ALL things were made by HIM (Jesus); and without him was not ANY thing made that was made.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one."

John 15:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 5:3-4
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to GOD.

2 Corinthians 4:4
...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Philippians 2:6
...Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Colossians 2:9
...For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

The Holy Spirit is God
John 14:16-18

And I will pray the Father, and He will give you *ANOTHER Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
*This word in Greek means, “another of the SAME kind.”

Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord IS the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU?

John 14:23
Jesus replied: "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.

Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? "While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to GOD."
3 equals 1?
Is this some kind of new math?
 
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Truther

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Another asinine comparison.

Trinitarians DO "go therefore" and Baptize in the name of the Father AND OF the Son AND OF the Holy Spirit.
Heretics don't . . .
No, they parrot his words and refuse to actually do what he said to do.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Interestingly enough, the apostle Paul gave warning against any divisions in the church...
GOD'S CHURCH WAS NOT ORDAINED TO BE THAT WAY!

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Regardless of Paul's concern, we now have THOUSANDS of denominations. Some of which are Lutheran (of Martin Luther the German monk who began the Protestant Reformation), some are Calvinists (of John Calvin), Baptists, Catholic and the list goes on.

Ever wondered why there are THOUSANDS (literally) of religious denominations, organizations and autonomous congregations, many of whom use the same version of the Holy Bible, but teach contrary one to another?

Acts Chapter 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
(29) For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
(30) Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
(31) Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

There is only ONE TRUE CHURCH. And it was started by Jesus, Himself. Jesus is the ONLY name associated with it's founding, and it's inauguration. The TRUE Church's birth and inauguration is found documented in Acts Chapter 2. And it's original teachings and oldest history is found within the 28 Chapters of the New Testament Book of Acts (of the Apostles).

However, over the Centuries since then, there have been many who have risen up, and become the leader of a very distinct religious movement of their own. This is why there are THOUSANDS of denominations teaching and preaching something different than the TRUE Church of Acts.


After Paul's warning to the Church, his concerns came to pass.

While on the Isle of Patmos, God allowed John to look into the future. And he saw something with "great admiration" as recorded In Revelation 17:6. God allowed John to see the Great Whore, the Spiritual Mother of Harlots. John's wonder was NOT coming from the standpoint of desire, but rather of showing intense shock or surprise joined with indignation at her.

Let's take a look as this scene unfolds...

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
[2] With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
[3] So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
[5] And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
[7] And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Rome is known to be built upon seven hills. Rome was said to have been founded when Romulus and Remus, twin sons of Mars, ended up at the foot of the hill Palatine and founded the city. The other six hills are Capitoline (the seat of government), Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Caelian, and Aventine.

Interestingly enough the word "Mystery" is the name of the Mother Of Harlots...

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

God is pleading to come out of her...

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
[2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
[5] For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


The MOTHER OF HARLOTS has daughters, which teach the invalid baptisms (as you put it). Show me in scripture where anyone was ever baptized in the titles of Father, Son, Holy Ghost ... Note Matthew 28:19 was NOT an actual baptism taking place, Jesus was telling them what to do, not what to repeat.

The question becomes: What is the true church, and what should we be looking for?

The Five-Fold Ministry
Ephesians Chapter 4 (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

The Fruit of the Spirit
Galatians Chapter 5 (KJV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

The Gifts of the Spirit
1 Corinthians Chapter 12 (KJV)
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

1 Corinthians 12:28 (KJV)
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


We see that God is the One who placed the above in His Church. And we're even told why He did. However, not everyone believes that. But, I've never met anyone who doesn't believe it who can provide Scripture(s) for when, where OR why God removes any of it from His Church. Granted, the churches of the wide gate and broad way do NOT embrace all of the above. However, the one true Church that Jesus established (the strait gate and narrow way) certainly does.

God Bless!
I couldn't agree with you more.

Christ's Church is ONE. But, because of what prideful, rebellious men did in the 16th century - we now have tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines yest ALL claim to have the "Truth" - like YOUR non-Trinitarian perversions.

What a mess you've all made.
 

BreadOfLife

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No, they parrot his words and refuse to actually do what he said to do.
No - we do exactly what He said to do.

We baptize in the name of the Father AND OF the Son AND OF the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19).
We don't just baptize in the name of "Jesus" like the disobedient do.
 

BreadOfLife

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Peter rebelled against Jesus?
Nope.
Peter understood that Baptizing "in the name of Jesus" was Baptizing by His AUTHORITY.

We're back at the example of the knight who declares things "in the name of the king". It doesn't mean that he and the King have the same name. He is declaring by the King's AUTHORITY.

Jesus said to Baptize in name of the Father AND OF the Son AND OF the Holy Spirit.
That is His AUTHORITY.
 

BreadOfLife

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No, they parrot his words and refuse to actually do what he said to do.
Matt. 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.


In that Catholic Church, the priest says:
"I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Ummmmmm, show me how he is doing something "different" that what Jesus said to do.
 

BreadOfLife

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Agreed. The RCC is the great whore of Rev.
However, they still control nearly all Protestants also.
Their micro doctrines can be found laced through both Trin and oneness teachings.
Another ignorant and asinine comment . . .
 

user

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Agreed. The RCC is the great whore of Rev.
However, they still control nearly all Protestants also.
Their micro doctrines can be found laced through both Trin and oneness teachings.

I'm guessing your talking about pagan holidays?
 

user

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I couldn't agree with you more.

Christ's Church is ONE. But, because of what prideful, rebellious men did in the 16th century - we now have tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines yest ALL claim to have the "Truth" - like YOUR non-Trinitarian perversions.

What a mess you've all made.


Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the following terms ...

"One God in three persons",
"God the Son",
"God the Holy Ghost" (or Holy Spirit),
"The Holy Trinity"

So, how and when did the doctrine of the Holy Trinity come into existence? And, why is it so widely accepted, today? Those two questions are certainly valid ones, and deserve serious examination and consideration.

Encyclopedia International, 1975 Edition, Vol.18, p.226 - The doctrine of the "Trinity" did not form part of the apostles' preaching, as this is reported in the New Testament.

New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967 Edition, Vol.13, p.1021 - The first use of the Latin word "trinitas" (trinity) with reference to God, is found in Tertullian's writings (about 213 A.D.) He was the first to use the term "persons" (plural) in a Trinitarian context.

Encyclopedia Americana, 1957 Edition, Vol.27, p.69 - The word "Trinity" is not in Scripture. The term "persons" (plural) is not applied in Scripture to the Trinity.

World Book Encyclopedia, 1975 Edition, Vol. T, p.363 - Belief in Father, Son and Holy Ghost was first defined by the earliest general council of churches. This was the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.

New International Encyclopedia, Vol.22, p.476 - The Catholic faith is this: We worship one God in Trinity, but there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Ghost. The Glory equal - the Majesty co-eternal. The doctrine is not found in its fully developed form in the Scriptures. Modern theology does not seek to find it in the Old Testament. At the time of the Reformation the Protestant Church took aver the doctrine of the Trinity without serious examination.

Life Magazine, October 30, 1950, Vol.29, No.18, p.51 - The Catholics made this statement concerning their doctrine of the Trinity, to defend the dogma of the assumption of Mary, in an article written by Graham Greene: "Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture... But the PROTESTANT CHURCHES have themselves accepted such dogmas as THE TRINITY, for which there is NO SUCH PRECISE AUTHORITY in the Gospels"



History also documents baptism in the name of Jesus ...

Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (1951). II, 384, 389: "The formula used was "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name… The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion… in water, the use of the name of the Lord, and the laying on of hands. To these were added, at various times and places which cannot be safely identified, (a) the trine name (Justin)…"

Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (1962), I 351: " evidence .. suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but 'in the name of Jesus Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus.'"

Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Jesus Christ" or 'the Lord Jesus,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."

Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church (1947), page 58: "The trinitarian baptismal formula,,, was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ."

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1957), I, 435: "The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus… which still occurs even in the second and third centuries."

Canney's Encyclopedia of Religions (1970), page 53: "Persons were baptized at first 'in the name of Jesus Christ' … or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus'… Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.'"

Encyclopedia Biblica (1899), I, 473: "It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Jesus Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Jesus.' This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single-not triple, as was the later creed."

Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. (1920), II 365: "The trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning… Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the New Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid."



My advice to you is, if you aren't affiliated with one now, that you find yourself a church which embraces, teaches and preaches the Apostles' One God Monotheistic Doctrine and baptizes in the precious name of Jesus ... the name that was alluded to in Matthew 28:19 ... and go there, and see (and feel) the difference for yourself.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


God Bless!
 

BreadOfLife

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Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the following terms ...

"One God in three persons",
"God the Son",
"God the Holy Ghost" (or Holy Spirit),
"The Holy Trinity"

So, how and when did the doctrine of the Holy Trinity come into existence? And, why is it so widely accepted, today? Those two questions are certainly valid ones, and deserve serious examination and consideration.

Encyclopedia International, 1975 Edition, Vol.18, p.226 - The doctrine of the "Trinity" did not form part of the apostles' preaching, as this is reported in the New Testament.

New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967 Edition, Vol.13, p.1021 - The first use of the Latin word "trinitas" (trinity) with reference to God, is found in Tertullian's writings (about 213 A.D.) He was the first to use the term "persons" (plural) in a Trinitarian context.

Encyclopedia Americana, 1957 Edition, Vol.27, p.69 - The word "Trinity" is not in Scripture. The term "persons" (plural) is not applied in Scripture to the Trinity.

World Book Encyclopedia, 1975 Edition, Vol. T, p.363 - Belief in Father, Son and Holy Ghost was first defined by the earliest general council of churches. This was the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.

New International Encyclopedia, Vol.22, p.476 - The Catholic faith is this: We worship one God in Trinity, but there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Ghost. The Glory equal - the Majesty co-eternal. The doctrine is not found in its fully developed form in the Scriptures. Modern theology does not seek to find it in the Old Testament. At the time of the Reformation the Protestant Church took aver the doctrine of the Trinity without serious examination.

Life Magazine, October 30, 1950, Vol.29, No.18, p.51 - The Catholics made this statement concerning their doctrine of the Trinity, to defend the dogma of the assumption of Mary, in an article written by Graham Greene: "Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture... But the PROTESTANT CHURCHES have themselves accepted such dogmas as THE TRINITY, for which there is NO SUCH PRECISE AUTHORITY in the Gospels"

History also documents baptism in the name of Jesus ...

Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (1951). II, 384, 389: "The formula used was "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name… The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion… in water, the use of the name of the Lord, and the laying on of hands. To these were added, at various times and places which cannot be safely identified, (a) the trine name (Justin)…"

Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (1962), I 351: " evidence .. suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but 'in the name of Jesus Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus.'"

Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Jesus Christ" or 'the Lord Jesus,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."

Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church (1947), page 58: "The trinitarian baptismal formula,,, was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ."

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1957), I, 435: "The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus… which still occurs even in the second and third centuries."

Canney's Encyclopedia of Religions (1970), page 53: "Persons were baptized at first 'in the name of Jesus Christ' … or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus'… Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.'"

Encyclopedia Biblica (1899), I, 473: "It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Jesus Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Jesus.' This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single-not triple, as was the later creed."

Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. (1920), II 365: "The trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning… Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the New Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid."

My advice to you is, if you aren't affiliated with one now, that you find yourself a church which embraces, teaches and preaches the Apostles' One God Monotheistic Doctrine and baptizes in the precious name of Jesus ... the name that was alluded to in Matthew 28:19 ... and go there, and see (and feel) the difference for yourself.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

God Bless!
Soooooooo, does that mean you CAN'T address post #180, where I gave the Scriptural evidence for the Trinity??
That's what I thought.

While you're ignoring that little fact - think about this:
Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the term "Bible".
Why do YOU??

Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the term "Monotheism".
Why do YOU??

Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the term "Holiday".
Why do YOU??

Your ignorance pf Scripture and Scriptural language is astounding.
 

BreadOfLife

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Encyclopedia International, 1975 Edition, Vol.18, p.226 - The doctrine of the "Trinity" did not form part of the apostles' preaching, as this is reported in the New Testament.

New International Encyclopedia, Vol.22, p.476 - The Catholic faith is this: We worship one God in Trinity, but there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Ghost. The Glory equal - the Majesty co-eternal. The doctrine is not found in its fully developed form in the Scriptures. Modern theology does not seek to find it in the Old Testament. At the time of the Reformation the Protestant Church took aver the doctrine of the Trinity without serious examination.

History also documents baptism in the name of Jesus ...

Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (1951). II, 384, 389: "The formula used was "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name… The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion… in water, the use of the name of the Lord, and the laying on of hands. To these were added, at various times and places which cannot be safely identified, (a) the trine name (Justin)…"

Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (1962), I 351: " evidence .. suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but 'in the name of Jesus Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus.'"

Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Jesus Christ" or 'the Lord Jesus,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."

Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church (1947), page 58: "The trinitarian baptismal formula,,, was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ."

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1957), I, 435: "The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus… which still occurs even in the second and third centuries."

Canney's Encyclopedia of Religions (1970), page 53: "Persons were baptized at first 'in the name of Jesus Christ' … or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus'… Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.'"

Encyclopedia Biblica (1899), I, 473: "It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Jesus Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Jesus.' This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single-not triple, as was the later creed."

Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. (1920), II 365: "The trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning… Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the New Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid."
Complete and total ignorant nonsense.

For starters - some of your moronic claims state that Baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit came "later" in history - as late as the Third century. Here is an excerpt from The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) - which was written BEFORE most of the Gospels - while MOST of the Apostles were still alive:

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism

And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. (The Didache - 50 AD)

Your nonsense is neither Biblical NOR historical.

As for your pathetic claims that the Trinity was not recognized until the THIRD century - read the following evidence from the Early Church Fathers. Pay attention to the dates:

Athenagoras

For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence, - the Father, the Son, the Spirit because the Son is intelligence, reason, wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire; so also do we apprehend the existence of other powers, which exercise dominion about matter, and by means of it (A Plea for the Christians, 2:18 [A.D. 177]).

Irenaeus
For the Son, who is the Word of God, arranged these things beforehand from the beginning, the Father being in no want of angels, in order that He might call the creation into being, and form man, for whom also the creation was made; nor, again, standing in need of any instrumentality for the framing of created things, or for the ordering of those things which had reference to man; while, [at the same time,] He has a vast and unspeakable number of servants. For His offspring and His similitude do minister to Him in every respect; that is, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the WORD and WISDOM ; whom all the angels serve, and to whom they are subject (Against Heresies 4:7:4 [A.D. 180-190]).

Theophilus of Antioch
The three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the TRINITY, of God, and His WORD, and His WISDOM(To Autolycus 2:18 [A.D. 181]).


 

user

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Soooooooo, does that mean you CAN'T address post #180, where I gave the Scriptural evidence for the Trinity??
That's what I thought.

While you're ignoring that little fact - think about this:
Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the term "Bible".
Why do YOU??

Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the term "Monotheism".
Why do YOU??

Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the term "Holiday".
Why do YOU??

Your ignorance pf Scripture and Scriptural language is astounding.


Well now, this is interesting, you are clearly running away at my #191 post. Please address it or admit you cannot refute the content.

God Bless!
 

BreadOfLife

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Well now, this is interesting, you are clearly running away at my #191 post. Please address it or admit you cannot refute the content.

God Bless!
I already did in posts #192 and #193.
I'm waiting for your response.

I'm ALSO waiting for your response to my post #180.
Are you EVER going to address that Scriptural evidence for the Triune Godhead??

If you can't refute the evidence - simply admit it and move on . . .
 

justbyfaith

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You put salvation BEFORE obedience when the Bible does not. God requires obedience then He justifies. No example in the Bible of one being justified while continuing in disobedience to the will of God. Hebrews 3:9 clearly shows Christ saves those who obey not those who continue in disobedience.

Since salvation is "not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:9) it follows that the works that we do as believers do not earn salvation but are because we have salvation and are subsequent to salvation; since works do not save, therefore our good works are not unto salvation, but our salvation is unto good works.

Sorry, but you're wrong on grammatical grounds here.

Matt. 28:18 states:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
This indicates three separate names.

It does NOT say:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost:
THAT would indicate a singular name.

The "and of" differentiates each Person as having a separate name.

Actually, the word for "and" in Matthew 28:19 is "kai" and can be translated "even"

So it would be rendered:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, even of the Son, even of the Holy Ghost.

It STILL requires our cooperation.

God's saving grace cannot be applied to us unless we with it.

Indeed, we cooperate by placing our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


John 5:43 means that when Jesus said He came in His "Father's name" - it DOESN'T mean they have the same name. It means that He came by the Father's AUTHORITY.

You can ignore the facts all you want. Your alternate interpretation doesn't make the true interpretation invalid.

No - you didn't properly exegete these verses - you offered EISEGESIS, which is your own spin on them.

I don't think so.

They are NOT condemnations for those who stumble.

I never said that they were condemnations for those who stumble...you interpreted that from my statements, i suppose; but I have certainly not said so. For I believe that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24); who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1).

As I proved to you already - the Scriptures show that Peter, John and Paul sinned.

Not at any time while they were abiding.

Scripture is clear (1 John 3:6) that those who abide in Him sin not. Therefore for anyone who is abiding to sin, they would need to cease from abiding.

You're twisting Scripture again.
Col. 2:9 states:
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

This says NOTHING about Him being called "Father".
If you are going to apply ONE name to ALL Three - then that name is "YHVH" - not Jesus.

Col 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The fulness of the Godhead dwells in the Person of Jesus Christ...and that includes the Father and the Holy Ghost.

We don't just baptize in the name of "Jesus" like the disobedient do.

Peter was disobedient?

Nope.
Peter understood that Baptizing "in the name of Jesus" was Baptizing by His AUTHORITY.

Why didn't Peter baptize in the authority of the Father and the Holy Ghost as Jesus said to do?

I'll answer that the authority of the Father and of the Holy Ghost were included in the Person and Name of Jesus Christ...and that therefore Peter was not disobedient.

It remains that the authority of these is singular...one name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

Peter obeyed the great commission that Jesus gave in Matthew 28:19 when he baptized the disciples in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Therefore the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
 

BreadOfLife

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Actually, the word for "and" in Matthew 28:19 is "kai" and CAN BE translated "even"
So it would be rendered:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, even of the Son, even of the Holy Ghost.
Understand that simply because a word CAN be rendered a certain way, it's not always the way it SHOULD be rendered - and this is a prime example.
The context and flow of the command only makes sens if "kai" is rendered as "and" in this case.

This is why I stated that neither you NOR your friend understand Biblical language.
Indeed, we cooperate by placing our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Not by our OWN works, no.
HOWEVER - Jesus states emphatically that the works we do as members of the Body were prepared for us in ADVANCE BY GOD (Eph. 2:10).

GOD prepared these works. THIS is why James is so emphatic that True faith = Belief + Works (obedience) in James 2:19-26.
This is ALSO what Paul refers to as the "OBEDIENCE of faith" (Rom. 1:5).
I never said that they were condemnations for those who stumble...you interpreted that from my statements, i suppose; but I have certainly not said so. For I believe that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24); who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1).

Not at any time while they were abiding.

Scripture is clear (1 John 3:6) that those who abide in Him sin not. Therefore for anyone who is abiding to sin, they would need to cease from abiding.
And the point is that you DON'T abide in Christ 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year without stumbling.
You are BEING sanctified and BEING made perfect. You ain't there yet, so I suggest you get over yourself.

The Pharisees thought as YOU do - and look what Jesus said about THEM . . .
You can ignore the facts all you want. Your alternate interpretation doesn't make the true interpretation invalid.

I don't think so.
Col 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
The fulness of the Godhead dwells in the Person of Jesus Christ...and that includes the Father and the Holy Ghost.

Peter was disobedient?
Why didn't Peter baptize in the authority of the Father and the Holy Ghost as Jesus said to do?


I'll answer that the authority of the Father and of the Holy Ghost were included in the Person and Name of Jesus Christ...and that therefore Peter was not disobedient.

It remains that the authority of these is singular...one name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Peter obeyed the great commission that Jesus gave in Matthew 28:19 when he baptized the disciples in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Therefore the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Peter wasn't disobedient. He simply understood what YOU don't: That baptizing in the "name of" Jesus means Baptizing in the AUTHORITY of Jesus.
Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Your last line in RED us complete heresy.
The name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is "YHVH" - NOT Jesus of Nazareth.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]