The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

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justbyfaith

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If anyone is truly baptized in the Spirit apart from water baptism in Jesus' Name, He will lead them to be baptized in His name.
 
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Truther

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no they are not, how many times aound the circle do you need to go before you get off it and get on with your life, and let others get on with theres.
Just trying to help you see the message of salvation per the birth of the Church.
 

Truther

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Why?? do you not have any faith in the cleansing powers of His blood and sacrifice.

Jesus never needed to be baptized in water, he who is perfect was perfect, it was a demonstration. Baptizm in Water saves no one it just adds to.
The blood and sacrifice is applied per water baptism, not Spirit baptism. The Spirit gives life.
 
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mjrhealth

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(THE GREAT COMMISSION GIVEN):

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Great commission, you where not, that was to the disciples, another great lie... fro mte hreligi
Just trying to help you see the message of salvation per the birth of the Church
I am already save, thanks to Christ, why do you want me to believe a lie.??

If a man was in a desert, no water no food, jsut about to die, and calls out to God to forgive him on his last breath, do you really think that God would condemn that man because he wasnt baptized, who do you think God is and what do you think it was Jesus did.
 

Truther

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Great commission, you where not, that was to the disciples, another great lie... fro mte hreligi

I am already save, thanks to Christ, why do you want me to believe a lie.??

If a man was in a desert, no water no food, jsut about to die, and calls out to God to forgive him on his last breath, do you really think that God would condemn that man because he wasnt baptized, who do you think God is and what do you think it was Jesus did.
Acts 2:38 is a lie?
 

justbyfaith

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In Acts 2:38-39 it is written that the promise of the Holy Ghost (a conditional promise of which the condition is repentance and baptism in Jesus' Name) will be given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

In Romans 8:30 it is found that those who are called have already been predestinated and that those who are justified have already been called, and that those who are glorified have already been justified.

Iow, being called is based on predestination, and justification is based on the calling of the Lord.

If you think about these concepts long enough, I believe that you will see that justification does not come apart from baptism in Jesus' Name.

It is in there, quite subtly (and yet clear as day).
 

justbyfaith

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The fact that predestination is involved means that the Lord reserves the right to reject the man in the desert who at the last minute begins to seek Him, over the fact that he has no water to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Psa 32:5, I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.
Psa 32:6, For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him.

This scripture tells us that it is truly only those who seek the LORD early who shall be able to find Him.

If a man only seeks the LORD in the last minutes of his life, it will be in the floods of great waters and he will not be able to draw nigh unto the Lord.

It is verily written in Isaiah:

Isa 55:6, Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7, Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

If anyone finds that they are not walking in victory over sin, let them understand that they need the Holy Ghost to be able to overcome sin; and that the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised to those who repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.
 
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mjrhealth

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In Acts 2:38-39 it is written that the promise of the Holy Ghost (a conditional promise of which the condition is repentance and baptism in Jesus' Name) will be given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

In Romans 8:30 it is found that those who are called have already been predestinated and that those who are justified have already been called, and that those who are glorified have already been justified.

Iow, being called is based on predestination, and justification is based on the calling of the Lord.

If you think about these concepts long enough, I believe that you will see that justification does not come apart from baptism in Jesus' Name.

It is in there, quite subtly (and yet clear as day).
So your title . " just by faith" actually omits the" just by faith" bit. God will save whom He will save How He will save why He will save, and God forbid any many denies Him His right.

Are you going to be the one who demands God cant save that man because.... and If you really believe Jesus wont, than you do not know Him.
 

Mike Waters

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Is not scriptural "Cherry picking" the only plausible way of "rightly dividing" one's walk of faith from amongst the vast array of other Christian convictions and theologies?
 
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justbyfaith

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So your title . " just by faith" actually omits the" just by faith" bit. God will save whom He will save How He will save why He will save, and God forbid any many denies Him His right.

Are you going to be the one who demands God cant save that man because.... and If you really believe Jesus wont, than you do not know Him.
#1, justbyfaith, has two different meanings = righteous by faith, and, only by faith.

#2, my theology does not contradict the second meaning.

Col 2:12, Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
 

justbyfaith

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So your title . " just by faith" actually omits the" just by faith" bit. God will save whom He will save How He will save why He will save, and God forbid any many denies Him His right.

Are you going to be the one who demands God cant save that man because.... and If you really believe Jesus wont, than you do not know Him.
I do know Him...and I also know of Him, that He will save the one who seeks Him early...it is very less likely that He will save the one who seeks Him late.

Call upon Him while He is near, is the scriptural exhortation.

Seek the LORD while He may be found.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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No, obedience is the result of salvation and the proof that we are saved. Salvation is entirely the work of God and nothing we do contributes to it. Hebrews 5:9 speaks of our obedience to the command to trust in him and not in our own work.
You put salvation BEFORE obedience when the Bible does not. God requires obedience then He justifies. No example in the BIble of one being justified while continuing in disobedience to the will of God. Hebrews 3:9 clearly shows Christ saves those who obey not those who continue in disobedience.
 

BreadOfLife

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No, in the name(singular).

Read the verse carefully.

It is saying to baptize in a singular name.

Are the 3 titles a singular name or...

Is is proposing a particular name for the 3 titles?

Like Matt 28:19 equals Acts 2:38?

I think so
Sorry, but you're wrong on grammatical grounds here.

Matt. 28:18 states:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
This indicates three separate names.

It does NOT say:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost:
THAT would indicate a singular name.

The "and of" differentiates each Person as having a separate name.
 

BreadOfLife

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Most certainly....if you don't want to go to heaven, God is not going to force you to enter in kicking and screaming....

However, there is a sense in which I think that such a thing would be more loving of God than what we find in the reality.
It STILL requires our cooperation.

God's saving grace cannot be applied to us unless we with it.
This is why Paul calls us "co-workers" (sunergos) with God (1 Cor. 3:9, 2 Cor. 6:1).

This is also why Jesus told Jerusalem:
Matt. 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, AND YOU WERE NOT WILLING.


.
 

Truther

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Sorry, but you're wrong on grammatical grounds here.

Matt. 28:18 states:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
This indicates three separate names.

It does NOT say:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost:
THAT would indicate a singular name.

The "and of" differentiates each Person as having a separate name.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of


You highlighted the wrong part.

You think it says "name(s) of".

Unless you think Father, son and Holy Ghost are exactly the same.

You think something like this.....

...in the name of John, Paul and George(3 separate names)....

Makes sense?
 

BreadOfLife

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We receive the Holy Spirit AT our water Baptism.
This is why Jesus told Nicodemus that a man must be "born of WATER and SPIRIT" (John 2:5).

This is ALSO why Peter told the crowds on Pentecost to be ". . . baptized for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).

As long as you realize that these are not "separate" Baptisms - you're on the right track . . .
 

user

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Great commission, you where not, that was to the disciples, another great lie... fro mte hreligi
.


The Great Commission is this...
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The disciples went to teach and preach Jesus, and in the preaching of Jesus, water baptism was preached. Here is an example...

Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

God Bless!
 

Truther

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Just your understanding, stuck on a one track record and around and around you will keep going. denying people salvation based on your understanding, like so many
I just saw your "man in the desert" analogy.

Acts 2:38 is an insurance policy per salvation.

I have no idea how God will judge others that ignored or never saw it until their death.

Rev 20 says they will go to the white throne to be judged according to their works.

God may have mercy then.

I guess I want the insurance policy, because I am a big chicken.
 
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user

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Sorry, but you're wrong on grammatical grounds here.

Matt. 28:18 states:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
This indicates three separate names.


"Father" is NOT a name.
"Son" is NOT a name.
"Holy Ghost" is NOT a name.

This is so simple, a child could understand it. Ask a child, "what is the NAME of your father."

The proper understanding is this...

Jesus is the name of the Father (John 5:43),
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Jesus is the name of the Son (Matthew 1:21)
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Jesus is the name of the Holy Ghost (John 14:26)
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

God Bless!