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Featured The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Zachary, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Another asinine comparison.

    Trinitarians DO "go therefore" and Baptize in the name of the Father AND OF the Son AND OF the Holy Spirit.
    Heretics don't . . .
     
  2. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    3 equals 1?
    Is this some kind of new math?
     
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  3. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    No, they parrot his words and refuse to actually do what he said to do.
     
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  4. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree with you more.

    Christ's Church is ONE. But, because of what prideful, rebellious men did in the 16th century - we now have tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different doctrines yest ALL claim to have the "Truth" - like YOUR non-Trinitarian perversions.

    What a mess you've all made.
     
  5. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    No - we do exactly what He said to do.

    We baptize in the name of the Father AND OF the Son AND OF the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19).
    We don't just baptize in the name of "Jesus" like the disobedient do.
     
  6. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Nope.
    Peter understood that Baptizing "in the name of Jesus" was Baptizing by His AUTHORITY.

    We're back at the example of the knight who declares things "in the name of the king". It doesn't mean that he and the King have the same name. He is declaring by the King's AUTHORITY.

    Jesus said to Baptize in name of the Father AND OF the Son AND OF the Holy Spirit.
    That is His AUTHORITY.
     
  7. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Matt. 28:19
    Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.


    In that Catholic Church, the priest says:
    "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

    Ummmmmm, show me how he is doing something "different" that what Jesus said to do.
     
  8. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    How does ONE God = Three??
     
  9. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Another ignorant and asinine comment . . .
     
  10. user

    user Active Member

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    I'm guessing your talking about pagan holidays?
     
  11. user

    user Active Member

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    Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the following terms ...

    "One God in three persons",
    "God the Son",
    "God the Holy Ghost" (or Holy Spirit),
    "The Holy Trinity"

    So, how and when did the doctrine of the Holy Trinity come into existence? And, why is it so widely accepted, today? Those two questions are certainly valid ones, and deserve serious examination and consideration.

    Encyclopedia International, 1975 Edition, Vol.18, p.226 - The doctrine of the "Trinity" did not form part of the apostles' preaching, as this is reported in the New Testament.

    New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967 Edition, Vol.13, p.1021 - The first use of the Latin word "trinitas" (trinity) with reference to God, is found in Tertullian's writings (about 213 A.D.) He was the first to use the term "persons" (plural) in a Trinitarian context.

    Encyclopedia Americana, 1957 Edition, Vol.27, p.69 - The word "Trinity" is not in Scripture. The term "persons" (plural) is not applied in Scripture to the Trinity.

    World Book Encyclopedia, 1975 Edition, Vol. T, p.363 - Belief in Father, Son and Holy Ghost was first defined by the earliest general council of churches. This was the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.

    New International Encyclopedia, Vol.22, p.476 - The Catholic faith is this: We worship one God in Trinity, but there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Ghost. The Glory equal - the Majesty co-eternal. The doctrine is not found in its fully developed form in the Scriptures. Modern theology does not seek to find it in the Old Testament. At the time of the Reformation the Protestant Church took aver the doctrine of the Trinity without serious examination.

    Life Magazine, October 30, 1950, Vol.29, No.18, p.51 - The Catholics made this statement concerning their doctrine of the Trinity, to defend the dogma of the assumption of Mary, in an article written by Graham Greene: "Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture... But the PROTESTANT CHURCHES have themselves accepted such dogmas as THE TRINITY, for which there is NO SUCH PRECISE AUTHORITY in the Gospels"



    History also documents baptism in the name of Jesus ...

    Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (1951). II, 384, 389: "The formula used was "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ" or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name… The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion… in water, the use of the name of the Lord, and the laying on of hands. To these were added, at various times and places which cannot be safely identified, (a) the trine name (Justin)…"

    Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (1962), I 351: " evidence .. suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but 'in the name of Jesus Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus.'"

    Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Jesus Christ" or 'the Lord Jesus,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."

    Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church (1947), page 58: "The trinitarian baptismal formula,,, was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ."

    The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1957), I, 435: "The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus… which still occurs even in the second and third centuries."

    Canney's Encyclopedia of Religions (1970), page 53: "Persons were baptized at first 'in the name of Jesus Christ' … or 'in the name of the Lord Jesus'… Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.'"

    Encyclopedia Biblica (1899), I, 473: "It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Jesus Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Jesus.' This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single-not triple, as was the later creed."

    Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. (1920), II 365: "The trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning… Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the New Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid."



    My advice to you is, if you aren't affiliated with one now, that you find yourself a church which embraces, teaches and preaches the Apostles' One God Monotheistic Doctrine and baptizes in the precious name of Jesus ... the name that was alluded to in Matthew 28:19 ... and go there, and see (and feel) the difference for yourself.

    John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


    God Bless!
     
  12. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Soooooooo, does that mean you CAN'T address post #180, where I gave the Scriptural evidence for the Trinity??
    That's what I thought.

    While you're ignoring that little fact - think about this:
    Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the term "Bible".
    Why do YOU??

    Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the term "Monotheism".
    Why do YOU??

    Not one single solitary person in the entire Bible ever used the term "Holiday".
    Why do YOU??

    Your ignorance pf Scripture and Scriptural language is astounding.
     
  13. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Complete and total ignorant nonsense.

    For starters - some of your moronic claims state that Baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit came "later" in history - as late as the Third century. Here is an excerpt from The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) - which was written BEFORE most of the Gospels - while MOST of the Apostles were still alive:

    Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism

    And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. (The Didache - 50 AD)

    Your nonsense is neither Biblical NOR historical.

    As for your pathetic claims that the Trinity was not recognized until the THIRD century - read the following evidence from the Early Church Fathers. Pay attention to the dates:

    Athenagoras

    For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence, - the Father, the Son, the Spirit because the Son is intelligence, reason, wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire; so also do we apprehend the existence of other powers, which exercise dominion about matter, and by means of it (A Plea for the Christians, 2:18 [A.D. 177]).

    Irenaeus
    For the Son, who is the Word of God, arranged these things beforehand from the beginning, the Father being in no want of angels, in order that He might call the creation into being, and form man, for whom also the creation was made; nor, again, standing in need of any instrumentality for the framing of created things, or for the ordering of those things which had reference to man; while, [at the same time,] He has a vast and unspeakable number of servants. For His offspring and His similitude do minister to Him in every respect; that is, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the WORD and WISDOM ; whom all the angels serve, and to whom they are subject (Against Heresies 4:7:4 [A.D. 180-190]).

    Theophilus of Antioch
    The three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the TRINITY, of God, and His WORD, and His WISDOM(To Autolycus 2:18 [A.D. 181]).


     
  14. user

    user Active Member

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    Well now, this is interesting, you are clearly running away at my #191 post. Please address it or admit you cannot refute the content.

    God Bless!
     
  15. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    I already did in posts #192 and #193.
    I'm waiting for your response.

    I'm ALSO waiting for your response to my post #180.
    Are you EVER going to address that Scriptural evidence for the Triune Godhead??

    If you can't refute the evidence - simply admit it and move on . . .
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Since salvation is "not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:9) it follows that the works that we do as believers do not earn salvation but are because we have salvation and are subsequent to salvation; since works do not save, therefore our good works are not unto salvation, but our salvation is unto good works.

    Actually, the word for "and" in Matthew 28:19 is "kai" and can be translated "even"

    So it would be rendered:

    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, even of the Son, even of the Holy Ghost.

    Indeed, we cooperate by placing our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


    You can ignore the facts all you want. Your alternate interpretation doesn't make the true interpretation invalid.

    I don't think so.

    I never said that they were condemnations for those who stumble...you interpreted that from my statements, i suppose; but I have certainly not said so. For I believe that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24); who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1).

    Not at any time while they were abiding.

    Scripture is clear (1 John 3:6) that those who abide in Him sin not. Therefore for anyone who is abiding to sin, they would need to cease from abiding.

    Col 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    The fulness of the Godhead dwells in the Person of Jesus Christ...and that includes the Father and the Holy Ghost.

    Peter was disobedient?

    Why didn't Peter baptize in the authority of the Father and the Holy Ghost as Jesus said to do?

    I'll answer that the authority of the Father and of the Holy Ghost were included in the Person and Name of Jesus Christ...and that therefore Peter was not disobedient.

    It remains that the authority of these is singular...one name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

    Peter obeyed the great commission that Jesus gave in Matthew 28:19 when he baptized the disciples in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Therefore the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
     
  17. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Understand that simply because a word CAN be rendered a certain way, it's not always the way it SHOULD be rendered - and this is a prime example.
    The context and flow of the command only makes sens if "kai" is rendered as "and" in this case.

    This is why I stated that neither you NOR your friend understand Biblical language.
    Not by our OWN works, no.
    HOWEVER - Jesus states emphatically that the works we do as members of the Body were prepared for us in ADVANCE BY GOD (Eph. 2:10).

    GOD prepared these works. THIS is why James is so emphatic that True faith = Belief + Works (obedience) in James 2:19-26.
    This is ALSO what Paul refers to as the "OBEDIENCE of faith" (Rom. 1:5).
    And the point is that you DON'T abide in Christ 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year without stumbling.
    You are BEING sanctified and BEING made perfect. You ain't there yet, so I suggest you get over yourself.

    The Pharisees thought as YOU do - and look what Jesus said about THEM . . .
    Peter wasn't disobedient. He simply understood what YOU don't: That baptizing in the "name of" Jesus means Baptizing in the AUTHORITY of Jesus.
    Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

    Your last line in RED us complete heresy.
    The name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is "YHVH" - NOT Jesus of Nazareth.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
     
  18. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    More than that...

    Tithing, incarnation theory(5th century), RCC priests= Protestant pastors, etc.
     
  19. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    Oh brother.
     
  20. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    One does not equal 3, and 3 does not equal one.
    1+1+1=3, not 1.

    Trin math is incomprehensible.
     
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