What happens when we die?

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ScottA

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I'm sure that if there were a 'thumbs down, dislike' option, its use would cause less unpleasantness than some of the bigoted remarks that might prompt its use.:(
Yes, the problem with bigotry is that it relies on opinion, then assumes it matters.
 

101G

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Okay then, yay! I get a gold star! :)
(smile), see, I give you earth now you want the heavens.... lol... (smile).


ok, since you're a child of the KING, ok you have your gold star..... (smile).

PICJAG.
 
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charity

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Here is a great explanation and well put together understanding of this topic:


Hello @Hobie,

I agree with what you have said in your opening posts. (#1 & #2) . This is a subject that engenders strong feelings, and you have received opposing posts which can be expected, but I applaud your efforts in compiling and entering what you have.

In regard to our resurrection bodies, I believe they will be like unto our Lord's own resurrection body, of which He could say in Luke 24:39-40,

'Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
And when He had thus spoken,
He shewed them His hands and His feet.'

* The Lord's resurrection body was a spiritual body, for it could go through walls, and appear and disappear at will, but as He Himself said He is not a spirit, but flesh and bones.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Helen

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I'm sure that if there were a 'thumbs down, dislike' option, its use would cause less unpleasantness than some of the bigoted remarks that might prompt its use.:(


Thumb.gif
thumbdown[1].gif

I use them...drag them off and then when needed just drag and drop.

When you have been here a while you will know how post to 'step over' or just ignore. :)
Some have no idea how to disagree agreeably .
 

Nancy

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(smile), see, I give you earth now you want the heavens.... lol... (smile).


ok, since you're a child of the KING, ok you have your gold star..... (smile).

PICJAG.

Hahaha! Thank you, I'm honored :D, and YES, I'm a child of the King, He is my provider, protector and the lover of my soul
 

bbyrd009

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The point of the resurrection is to make us immortal. To make us spirits.
and you believe this will only happen after you have literally died, right?
based upon a literal get of "sleep in the earth?"
remember what the Preacher said when you were getting baptized, Hobie?
 

GISMYS_7

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2Corinthians 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:23).
 

jshiii

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Here is a great explanation and well put together understanding of this topic:

Premise

Traditionally most people believe that there is a ghost-like “spirit” inside of our bodies, and when we die, this spirit floats away somewhere, preferably heaven.

I will show that the Bible actually does not support this theory. In fact, according to the Bible there is no spirit inside of us at all. We exist only as mortal bodies, made from dust having been given the breath of life. And it is this “breath of life” that is confused with, or interpreted as, a “spirit”.


What Happens When We Die

Scripture says it plainly.

Genesis 3:19

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

Job 7:21

Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10:12

But man dies and lies prostrate man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dried up, so man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 115:17

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 146:4

When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Ecclesiastes 9:5

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. Their plans perish and they cease to exist. Ecclesiastes 3 even tells us that man has no advantage over the beasts. All go to one place, which is dust.


Death Compared to Sleep

Psalms 13:3

Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

1 Kings 2:10

Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

When Lazarus died, Jesus said he was sleeping.

John 11:11-14

After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.” 12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. 14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead


Why would Jesus compare Lazarus’ death to “sleep” if Lazarus’ spirit has ascended into heaven? And why was there no mention of his spirit leaving his body?

Matthew 9:24

He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

Daniel 12:2

Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Daniel was told he would “rest” until the resurrection.

Daniel 12:13

As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

If Daniel’s spirit was to go to heaven after death, then why was he told that he would rest? Why did the angel not say instead, I’ll see you in heaven soon, or something to that effect? It’s because Daniel wasn’t going to heaven. He was going to the dust of the earth. Daniel is now dead. He is not in heaven. He’s dead in the dust of the earth and on the day of the resurrection, he will rise, along with the rest of us.


What Happens When we are Resurrected

The resurrection, as Paul describes it, actually also proves that we have no spirit in us that goes to heaven when we die.

Imagine if we did have a spirit. We would fly up to heaven and we would do whatever we do in heaven. Praise the Lord, play Frisbee, eat BBQ chicken. No matter how you envision an existence in heaven, it would require at the very least that we have a consciousness, a thought process and a free will to continue to make decisions. All of this would contradict the old testament verses above.


It would also contradict the new testament book of 1 Corinthians, because according to Paul this life in a spiritual body, which we imagine in heaven, does not come to us until the very last day, when we are resurrected.

1 Corinthians 15:42

So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:46

The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

Paul clearly states that we are created with a natural body, not a spiritual body. We will be transformed into a spiritual body upon the resurrection. “The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual”. In other words, when God created us, we were not given spiritual bodies, only natural bodies, but we would receive spiritual bodies later, upon the resurrection.

Our bodies are sewn natural, raised spiritual. This is the point of the resurrection, to make us spiritual so that we can be immortal. So if you believe that we already have immortal spirits that leave our bodies when we die, you have a conundrum.



The Spiritual Conundrum

Imagine the traditional teaching, where we have a spirit and we go to heaven as a spirit when we die. Then please tell me, what is the point of the resurrection?

If we are already in heaven, as immortal spirits, then why would we need to be transformed into spirits on the last day? If it is so, then when our bodies on earth are transformed into spirits, do we end up with two spirits? The one in heaven and the one on earth? Would both spirits have their own separate consciousness? Do our spirits in heaven then join our old bodies which have been transformed? Would we then be a spirit within a spirit? Two spirits? What nonsense!

If we’re being transformed into spirits, then we can not already be spirits, otherwise what would be the point? The point of the resurrection is to make us immortal. To make us spirits. This would be entirely nonsensical if we are already living as spirits in heaven, and this is how Paul’s description of the resurrection proves that we do not have a spirit inside of us that continues to live after death.


Soul (Nephesh)

To add to the confusion, in addition to the obvious body and the presumed spirit, we also supposedly possess a “soul”. What is a soul? You are a soul.

Genesis 2:7

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Notice in the verse above that man became a living soul. He was not given a soul. He became a soul. In other words, we do not have souls, we are souls.

The word soul in this verse was originally written in Hebrew as לְנֶ֥פֶשׁ which is transliterated as nephesh. Strong’s concordance defines nephesh as “a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion”. With this definition in mind, the last part of Genesis 2:7 can be paraphrased as, for example “man became alive” or “man became an individual”. It is in fact the very moment when man gained his self awareness and free will.

The same word occurs 754 times in the old testament, so we can’t look at all examples but let’s look at one more.

Genesis 1:20

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life (Nephesh), and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Here the King James Bible translates it as “creature that hath life”. Remember, this is the same word that was translated as “soul” in Genesis 2:7. The more examples you look at the more obvious it becomes that when the word “soul” is used in scripture it refers simply to “a living creature”.



Can I just answer this from the perspective the fallen angels will have in hell? While the fallen angels blasphemy the Lord Jesus Christ IN HELL, unfortunately, they will have to listen to the humans who rejected Christ. Those same humans will be saying to the fallen angels, "What the Hell? See What You Guys Caused!" "Jesus Was The Answer, But Noooo, You Just could Not Admit He Defeated You With LOVE!" "I Paid A Priest For Forgiveness, but That Didn't Work?" "I had Every Comfort The World Could Offer, But Could Not Take It With Me To The Grave!" "I'm Thirsty And Those Maggots Will Never Die?" "Anyway, It's Too Late Now, Might As Well Get On Your Knees And Confess, Jesus Is Lord!" "It's Going To Be A Long Time!"

The Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, is Worthy of all our Praise and Worship!
Eternity is a Very long Time!
Satan Loves Distractions and Wants Christians To Just Die!!
 
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charity

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I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body
be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
(1 Thessalonians 5:23).
Hello @GISMYS_7.

What I find interesting about this prayer, which was written during the period covered by the book of Acts, is that for it to find fulfilment for those receiving the epistle of Paul, it would need the repentance of Israel, which as we know did not happen. For then the Lord's return would have occurred in their lifetime. Making it possible for them to be preserved entire as both, 'spirit', 'soul' and 'body' in that day. They therefore died, and were buried, and their 'breath of life' (spirit) returned to the Father from whence it came. They now sleep in Christ awaiting that day, when they will be resurrected to rise and meet the Lord in the air, along with those who are alive and remain.

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

fellow

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You rattle on because your premise is grossly in error. Nonetheless:
  • God is not the god of the dead but of the living.
  • That which is born of the flesh is flesh (and returns to dust), and that which is born of the spirit is spirit (and returns to God who gave it).
  • There is both. All of which is written, but you have failed to present it.
Who are born of flesh? Who are born of spirit?
 

ScottA

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Who are born of flesh? Who are born of spirit?
All who are born of women, that is of water birth, are born of the flesh.

All who are born again of the spirit of God, are those who believe, those whom He draws to Himself.
 
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Davy

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Here is a great explanation and well put together understanding of this topic:

Premise

Traditionally most people believe that there is a ghost-like “spirit” inside of our bodies, and when we die, this spirit floats away somewhere, preferably heaven.

I will show that the Bible actually does not support this theory. In fact, according to the Bible there is no spirit inside of us at all. We exist only as mortal bodies, made from dust having been given the breath of life. And it is this “breath of life” that is confused with, or interpreted as, a “spirit”.

What Happens When We Die

There is no spiritual conundrum. There is only God's Holy Writ vs. men's traditions.

The reason why Apostle Paul referred to those in Christ that have died as being "asleep" is simply because they are not really... 'dead'. Those who hear our Lord Jesus in Scripture like Matthew 10:28 understand this. Those still stuck on Old Testament Jewish traditions do not understand it.

Mark 12:26-27
26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?'
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
KJV

Luke 20:37-38
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For He is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto Him.
KJV


And the Ecclesiastes 9 Scripture about the dead not knowing anything is not understood by those on the false 'dead in the ground' theory...

Eccl 9:4-6
4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
KJV

Ask yourselves brethren, do those ideas in red really, truly apply to those in Christ that have already died?

Is it really true that those who have died in Christ "neither have they any more a reward"?

Is it really true those died in Christ "for the memory of them is forgotten"?

Is it really true those died in Christ "neither have they any more a portion FOR EVER in any thing that is done under the sun"???

Apparently those that preach the 'dead in the ground', which abuse the above Eccl.9 Scripture, cannot read very well. Those concepts there are applied to 'the dead', meaning the wicked dead, those who are destined to perish. It is especially applied to the Rephaim, i.e., the giants which were the offspring of the fallen angels in Genesis 6.

In Isaiah 26:14, the KJV word "deceased" is actually a name for the giants per the Hebrew...

Isa 26:14
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
KJV


That's who 'the dead' really are, i.e., the hybrid giant race which the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 created by taking wives of the daughters of men. They "shall not rise". You know what that means? It means those hybrid giants shall not raise from the dead. So the idea of 'the dead' is especially a pointer to them. How then could that idea ever... point to those in Christ that have died??? Eccl.9 sounds like Solomon is speaking of everyone that is born flesh, but is he really? Obviously not. He is emphasizing two manner of peoples there, the dead being the wicked whose memories are to perish and have no reward, etc.
 

ReChoired

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This is what happens:



Powerpoint presentation freely available here- Link


More info on this subject can be found here - Link

More info on this subject may be found here - Link

More info on this subject may be found here - Link
 
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Hobie

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There is no spiritual conundrum. There is only God's Holy Writ vs. men's traditions.

The reason why Apostle Paul referred to those in Christ that have died as being "asleep" is simply because they are not really... 'dead'. Those who hear our Lord Jesus in Scripture like Matthew 10:28 understand this. Those still stuck on Old Testament Jewish traditions do not understand it.

Mark 12:26-27
26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?'
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
KJV

Luke 20:37-38
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For He is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto Him.
KJV


And the Ecclesiastes 9 Scripture about the dead not knowing anything is not understood by those on the false 'dead in the ground' theory...

Eccl 9:4-6
4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
KJV

Ask yourselves brethren, do those ideas in red really, truly apply to those in Christ that have already died?

Is it really true that those who have died in Christ "neither have they any more a reward"?

Is it really true those died in Christ "for the memory of them is forgotten"?

Is it really true those died in Christ "neither have they any more a portion FOR EVER in any thing that is done under the sun"???

Apparently those that preach the 'dead in the ground', which abuse the above Eccl.9 Scripture, cannot read very well. Those concepts there are applied to 'the dead', meaning the wicked dead, those who are destined to perish. It is especially applied to the Rephaim, i.e., the giants which were the offspring of the fallen angels in Genesis 6.

In Isaiah 26:14, the KJV word "deceased" is actually a name for the giants per the Hebrew...

Isa 26:14
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
KJV


That's who 'the dead' really are, i.e., the hybrid giant race which the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 created by taking wives of the daughters of men. They "shall not rise". You know what that means? It means those hybrid giants shall not raise from the dead. So the idea of 'the dead' is especially a pointer to them. How then could that idea ever... point to those in Christ that have died??? Eccl.9 sounds like Solomon is speaking of everyone that is born flesh, but is he really? Obviously not. He is emphasizing two manner of peoples there, the dead being the wicked whose memories are to perish and have no reward, etc.

The second death is the one you have to fear, as God can resurrect you from the grave. But we have to overcome sin through Christ...

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 

Nancy

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This is what happens:



Powerpoint presentation freely available here- Link


More info on this subject can be found here - Link

More info on this subject may be found here - Link

More info on this subject may be found here - Link

last night, I watched your first video and then, reading Matthew this morning, when I came upon Matthew 10:28 , I see that the soul and the body are separate: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Just curious about that.