Lord's willing we will get to chapter 6.
but one thing I would like to ask you, is it the Lord Jesus who sits on the throne in Revelation chapters 4 & 5? yes or no.
PICJAG.
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
but one thing I would like to ask you, is it the Lord Jesus who sits on the throne in Revelation chapters 4 & 5? yes or no.
PICJAG.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You do see mention of the Lamb there in Rev.5 don't you? But in both chapters, do you see what 'timing' it is. When do Christ's servants receive the crown of gold? And what timing is Rev.5:10 when those in Christ are made priests and kings and reign on the earth?
Revelation 4:5 "And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
The very purpose of the lighting is to get people attention, “A WARNING”, and thundering means judgments are coming. Other words sore judgments are coming, Time is short, (Judgment and warning come to the church FIRST, (chapter 2 & 3). for the Judgment of God begins with his people the church. 1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”. and the voice is the Gospel of God, scripture, Revelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me”. one must enter in the ark of safety, (the door way, our hearts), as did Noah and his family, for the Lord Jesus is our ark of safety in the times of trouble. one must hear his voice the gospel, Hebrews 3:7-12 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 "Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 "So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God”. the seven spirits is the Holy Ghost in the earth realm speaking to us right now as we speak, comforting them who hear and obey, and warning them who disobey…. yes, in the church, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches” (Revelation chapters 3 & 4). With swift judgments comes sudden destruction.1 Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape”. first the church God's people. just like charity, it first starts at home then spreads abroad. and the world is Judge also. for all of us must give an account unto God as to what we have done in these bodies. it is the Holy Ghost voice, the Lord Jesus, that one hears, which was plainly displayed in chapter 2 & 3, listen. “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches”, BINGO, we have been warned.
Conclusion: The Seven Spirits is the Holy Spirit, God himself, who is the Lord Jesus diversified without flesh and bones. He speaks unto the world today trough us, his church, for we're the LIGHT/lightnings and thunderings to the world. This is the third dispensation of God. What do we mean by a "Godly" dispensation. 1. a system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time. the method or scheme according to which God carries out his purposes towards men is called a dispensation. So we’re in the third dispensation of God, which is the rule of the Holy Spirit, JESUS in glorification meaning God with us and God in us, by his Spirit.
the three dispensation of God, "I AM THAT I AM"
Dispensation #1. "I AM", CREATOR, and MAKER, LORD, Spirit, without flesh, without bone, and without blood.
Dispensation #2. "THAT", REDEEMER, and SAVIOUR, Lord, spirit, diversified, with flesh, with bone, with blood.
Dispensation #3. "I AM", COMFORTER, and MEDIATOR, LORD of Lords, KING, of kings, Spirit, with flesh, and with bone, but NO BLOOD.
the fear of LORD is the beginning of true worship (Prov 1:7).
PICJAG.
The very purpose of the lighting is to get people attention, “A WARNING”, and thundering means judgments are coming. Other words sore judgments are coming, Time is short, (Judgment and warning come to the church FIRST, (chapter 2 & 3). for the Judgment of God begins with his people the church. 1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”. and the voice is the Gospel of God, scripture, Revelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me”. one must enter in the ark of safety, (the door way, our hearts), as did Noah and his family, for the Lord Jesus is our ark of safety in the times of trouble. one must hear his voice the gospel, Hebrews 3:7-12 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 "Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 "So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God”. the seven spirits is the Holy Ghost in the earth realm speaking to us right now as we speak, comforting them who hear and obey, and warning them who disobey…. yes, in the church, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches” (Revelation chapters 3 & 4). With swift judgments comes sudden destruction.1 Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape”. first the church God's people. just like charity, it first starts at home then spreads abroad. and the world is Judge also. for all of us must give an account unto God as to what we have done in these bodies. it is the Holy Ghost voice, the Lord Jesus, that one hears, which was plainly displayed in chapter 2 & 3, listen. “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches”, BINGO, we have been warned.
Conclusion: The Seven Spirits is the Holy Spirit, God himself, who is the Lord Jesus diversified without flesh and bones. He speaks unto the world today trough us, his church, for we're the LIGHT/lightnings and thunderings to the world. This is the third dispensation of God. What do we mean by a "Godly" dispensation. 1. a system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time. the method or scheme according to which God carries out his purposes towards men is called a dispensation. So we’re in the third dispensation of God, which is the rule of the Holy Spirit, JESUS in glorification meaning God with us and God in us, by his Spirit.
the three dispensation of God, "I AM THAT I AM"
Dispensation #1. "I AM", CREATOR, and MAKER, LORD, Spirit, without flesh, without bone, and without blood.
Dispensation #2. "THAT", REDEEMER, and SAVIOUR, Lord, spirit, diversified, with flesh, with bone, with blood.
Dispensation #3. "I AM", COMFORTER, and MEDIATOR, LORD of Lords, KING, of kings, Spirit, with flesh, and with bone, but NO BLOOD.
the fear of LORD is the beginning of true worship (Prov 1:7).
PICJAG.
Last edited:
This is COMPLETELY FALSE. The Holy Spirit is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ, neither is He God the Father. So here is the truth which you are distorting:
God the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit
God the Son (the Word) is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit
God the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son
For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7)
This Scripture tells us that the three are distinct from each other, yet one God.
Interpreting the Revelation so it works with a non-trinitarian perspective in my opinion forces one to treat the text MUCH differently than one otherwise might.
I find that there can be little agreement about the rest without agreement on that part. Witness that 101 swaps chronology on chapters 4 and 5, because otherwise, it does not make sense to him.
So, the reason why so many churches just leave the book alone, so many disagreements. I find that the disagreements come down to how one should read the text, and to what level it should be understood literally compared to non-literally.
Much love!
First thanks for the reply, second, let's see,
Hebrews 3:7 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Hebrews 3:8 "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Hebrews 3:9 "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Hebrews 3:10 "Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.Hebrews 3:11 "So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
but who was it in the wilderness with them?
Psalms 95:6 "O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
Psalms 95:7 "For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Psalms 95:8 "Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Psalms 95:9 "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psalms 95:10 "Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psalms 95:11 "Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
that's the Holy Ghost, who is God, JESUS, without flesh, without bone, and without blood. the same one person.
we suggest you read Hebrews and Psalms again....
now Enoch111. let's put it together. it was the Holy Spirit, that was with them in the wilderness. let's see what the apostle Paul say who was with them in the wilderness. 1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:5 "But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness".
who was with them in the WILDERNESS? yes, the ROCK, God. notice verse 5 sbove, it said that ROCK, let's see who this ROCK is,
Deuteronomy 32:1 "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
Deuteronomy 32:2 "My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he".
who is the ROCK Enoch111? yes that's right JESUS the CHRIST, who in the OT before he "diversified" himself in flesh, at John 1:1 is the LORD, who is the Holy Ghost, yes the same one God who "MADE ALL THINGS" according to John 1:3, (the WORD), and Isaiah 44:24, (the LORD). who voice they refused to hear.....
... BINGO.and there are many, many more scriptures point to this....
... we suggest you re-read those verses for clarity.the Psalmist said, "the LORD our maker". now who MADE ALL THINGS including us? who, as the N.O. Saints say, "who dat"..
the Lord Jesus. yeah...... PICJAG.
first thanks, for the reply, second, 101G swap? .... lol ..... nope, but if you can tell us how our Lord was enthroned in heaven with all power before his resurrection, after he was made flesh (John 1:14), please post the scriptures to that fact, then I'll repent..... well? scripture please.
PICJAG.
Let's start here:
1 Corinthians 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he (mark - He who? Christ) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Who will deliver the Kingdom to Whom?
To Whom will the Son of Man be subject?
Much love!
First thanks for the reply, and second, "I thought you said you was not up to any trinity debate?". oh well throw that out the window. since you asked......
I have a whole teaching on this but we'll get straight to the chase. I believe your POINT that you're trying to make is this,"
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all".
in this are you trying to show that Jesus the Son is not the Father, like E-111 said? but are two separate person. well the answer is "NO. .....
as said I have a whole teaching on just this one subject but I'll be brief for argument sake. here is your answer which is right in the scriptures themselves.did you see what verse 28 said in reference to verse 27 as who or what is "PUT UNDER HIM?". well lets start at the source of your MISUNDERSTANDING, and here it is,
the term SUBJECT: G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) v. According to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English. the Greek word here, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, this word is used as a verb, and not a noun. (that will alert one quickly). as a verb one can quickly see, or understand what subject means here in context. a. put within, b. will.
lets look at both and understand this revelation. according to the second definition of subject in the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary as a verb, it means 2. To put under or within the power of. (there is our revelation, “within”, within the power of). lets back this up with our second understanding.
G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) as a verb which means
1. to subordinate
2. (reflexively) to obey
[from G5259 and G5021]
KJV: be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
please notice, the KJV can translate subject, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, as be under obedience,
which bring us to our second understanding of the word subject here.
the definition also states from G5259 and G5021, lets see what G5259 ὑπό hupo Mean.
G5259 ὑπό hupo (hï-po') prep.
1.under
2.(with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through)
3.(with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)) In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.
[a primary preposition]
KJV: among, by, from, in, of, under, with
examine definition #2 above carefully, it said, when used with verbs. there is our conformation, the agency or means,“through”. and “through” is synonyms with “WITHIN”. so when G5259 is use in VERB form, meaning with a verb as in “BE” subject as here in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 then it is understood to be used as the “agency or means, through”. other words Isaiah 63:5 is totally correct and on point when God said, " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. the power is in, or within God “own” arm, which the Lord is. BINGO, “God’s own arm", who the Lord Jesus is. now let get the clear understanding, verse 28 "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself “be” subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all". see according to the definition when use with a verb, and "BE" is a verb, meaning the term "Subject" is changed in definition because of the verb usage. so when the Kingdom is delievered up Jesus as Lord in glorified flesh as the "diversity of his ownself, will again be one as in the beginning of creation when he CREATED and MADE all things , the Great "I AM". understand Marks, as the "diversity" of himself in flesh, he's NUMERICALLY another of himself shared in flesh, (John 1:14), meaning he is in DIFFERENTIATION of himself in flesh. now Marks, what is the opposit of DIFFERENTIATION? answer, ASSIMILATION, so when the Kingdom is delievered he will "BE" subject, or "WITHIN" or ASSIMILATED as one Spirit as "was" before his "diversity". that's why John 1:1 said "was" with God, now again. as he was in the befinning as Genesis 1:1 states.
that’s all that is needed, the Holy Spirit, (the Revelator) and an old English bible dictionary like the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary. the Holy Spirit will enable us, or give us the ability to root out words and their meaning to understand the old English language usage at that time when the bible was written. that little verb "BE" changed all the meaning of "Subject...
ain't God GOOD. as said these things was hidden from many but unto you they are given.this was the short and quick version of 1 Corinthians 15. hoped it helped.
PICJAG.
Last edited:
ERROR, let the scripture speak, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God".
Another of himself shared in flesh . . . modalism. I don't understand why you don't recognize this term as descriptive of your view. It's modalism with a time overlap, or else you are just describing what the rest of us mean when we say trinity, just in different words.
?
Marks is there anyone equat to God, NO, of course not, but is God equal "WITH", not "TO", but equal with himself? the answer YES. now mark how can God be equal with himself as Philippians 2:6 states, not what 101G states, but the scriptures states? answer, the same FORM, and what do "FORM here means? let the answer speak for themselves.
FORM: G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
the Lord Jesus has the SAME Nature as the Spirit God. but hiow? the answer is in the definition itself. it's in it's roots. listen,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
do you know what a "Portion" is or another word for it? answer.... "SHARE" just as an allotment as the definition states.
see it now? the Lord Jesus is Spiritually in Nature the equal "SHARE" of God in Flesh (John 1:14). now.... the Greek word for this sharing EQUALLY is G243 Allos. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;" heteros G2087 expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort." BINGO. the numerical difference is the DIFFERENTIATION you cannot understand.....
see marks that's your misunderstanding, as in 1 Corinthians 15 when the Kingdom is taken up God will be ASSIMILATED as he was before his "diversity" in flesh. and if you're wondering where we get this terminology of "Diversity" from, it right in your bible hidden from you, now revealed, listen, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star".the definition of "OFFSPRING" reveals the word I used,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
see it now Marks, "Diversity" is another word for "Offspring"......
see, this is why things are HIDDEN from you, why?2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Marks you have to study, and rightly divide the word of Truth. and after all of that goto God in prayer and ask for confirmation. because studying God word is no Gain in itself, one need God to reveal his word to us. as Faith without works is true, studying without the Holy Ghost is DEAD also. the scriptures must be revealed unto us.
so now go and study Philippians 2:6 which is a good place to start to understanding the diversity of God.
PICJAG.
Last edited:
modalism?, LOL, a NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE is modalism? ....... we don't believe so, lol. boy oh boy. this is when people has no knowledge nor any undersanding of the scriptures. now what is modalism? the trinity in reverse, you have three "TITLES" playing a person each. titles are not person. llisten, 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one". right in the scripture it tells us that "Father", "Word", and "Holy Ghost" are titles of one person SHARED. how do we know this? it said, "THESE" three are one. NOT "THEY" are one, for they would indicate persons. "these" are title, Father is a TITLE of a person, and not the person. Word is the TITLE of a person. the scripture got it right, "THESE" titles are one, these are title of ONE person. as with 1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one" spirit, small case "s", and water, (which our bodies are made up of), and blood is a single man or person. spirit plus water plus blood = a human being. ONE "PERSON. BINGO.
PICJAG.
PICJAG.
Good question, and thanks for the reply. understand that there is only the HOLY SPIRIT, who hold both titles "Father", and "Son". the share comes in at the "diversity" or the sharing of oneself in another form.
ok Marks follow this. the term Adam means "ANOTHER" of himself, hence where we get the woman EVE. listen,
ADAM: H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
see how Adam can be translate versus , Adam H119 אָדַם 'adam (aw-dam') v. or Adam,
Root(s): H119
OR Adam
H121 אָדָם 'Adam (aw-dawm') n/p.
1. (person) Adam the name of the first man.
2. (location) a place in Israel.
[the same as H120]
KJV: Adam.
Root(s): H120
see the difference. now back to the First term
ADAM: H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
see Eve is "Another" of the First man, for she share his essance. scripture, Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
see the IMAGE of God is "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh...... man, that's why he said in Genesis 1:26a "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". us and our was to come, just as the woman was in the man to come. understand now.
God at Genesis 1 is one, not a trinity, but one, supportive scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".
his diversity/Offspring was to COME. that's why John 1:1 said "was" with GOD and is GOD. it's the same person only shared.
PICJAG.
Revelation 4:6 "And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind”.
Before the throne is a term in reference to thing on earth instead of heaven. For heaven is his throne, and the earth is his footstool, (see Isaiah 66:1). as foot stool is always before the throne or chair. a sea, here signify peoples, and a of glass, which is smooth, like unto crystal is in reference to or is symbolic of a Love and peace and hope and harmony in the children of God having in them the Holy Ghost ruling in their hearts. a rough sea signify evil people, where turmoil and confusion exist, a rough sea. The term before the throne as said, signify on earth (his footstool), and the Holy Ghost is now presently on earth, (as indicated “before the throne”). Supportive scripture of this smooth glass of people, .Galatians 5:22 & 23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law”.
The four beast
These symbolic animals, or living creatures are not merely “encircling” the Throne but have specify duties concerning JUDGMENTS which are revealed in the following verses to come. Lord’s willing we’ll look at them tomorrow.
Before the throne is a term in reference to thing on earth instead of heaven. For heaven is his throne, and the earth is his footstool, (see Isaiah 66:1). as foot stool is always before the throne or chair. a sea, here signify peoples, and a of glass, which is smooth, like unto crystal is in reference to or is symbolic of a Love and peace and hope and harmony in the children of God having in them the Holy Ghost ruling in their hearts. a rough sea signify evil people, where turmoil and confusion exist, a rough sea. The term before the throne as said, signify on earth (his footstool), and the Holy Ghost is now presently on earth, (as indicated “before the throne”). Supportive scripture of this smooth glass of people, .Galatians 5:22 & 23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law”.
The four beast
These symbolic animals, or living creatures are not merely “encircling” the Throne but have specify duties concerning JUDGMENTS which are revealed in the following verses to come. Lord’s willing we’ll look at them tomorrow.
GINOLJC, to all.
First why complain, instead of trying to learn? "But you make mincemeat of the text?" who is that helping?
second, if that's your choice fine if you want to live the remainder of your life in fascination with God.
but why complain, and give excuses?...... never mind. I STARTED THIS TOPIC IN HOPE IT MAY HELP SOMEONE OR GET SOME FRESH NEW INFORMATION MYSELF.
but where one say "GOD" I say Holy Spirit, who is the one and true Living God. he holds both titles "Father" and "Son" as the diversity of himself in spirit.
but if you have some thoughts on the scriptures please share them... ok. thanks.
PICJAG.
The four beast
The righteous JUDGMENTS of God.
after our Lord rose from the dead, and returned to heaven, pending Judgments are coming to the church as well as the world. and we will see, the first four judgments are revealed in detail. here in chapter 4, and greater detail in chapter 6. these first four judgement are Spiritual as well as natural. we will get into the details later in chapter 6.
Revelation 4:7 "And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle”.
I have heard many different commentary, interpertation, and speculation as to who and what these beast/living creatures are. but that's each to their own. Note: the beast/living creatures was “like” according to John, but the 3rd beast had the face “as” NOT like, but “AS” a man, big difference.
Now the bible will identify these four beast. And the KJV label then correctly as “BEASTS” for it is the “WORK of the LORD” in his judgments. these four beast symbolize the warning of the coming Judgments from “GOD”, from John time and point of view. as listed in chapter 6 with the four horseman. Each beast/living creature reveals a “WORK” of God in “Judgments” that was and is to come. The beast here reveals the work of the four horseman in chapter 6 when each beast says, "come and see". because our Lord has open the seals so we can see. open means to know. we will get into greater detail of each beast/living creature in chapter 6.
The first beast mention here in verse 7 is the Lion, (remember "like" a lion), which reveals the work of the rider of the white horse in chapter 6, which is the false prophet that war against the saints of God. The deceiver, the false Christ, or false Messiah, or anti-christs. For in this revelation the Lion is a spoiler, the opposite to the true Lion, to make dirty, tihe opposite of clean. Scripture, 1 Peter 5:8 & 9 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour”. verse 9 tell it all listen, 9 “Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world”. (again we see the church is not raptured out of the world). Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ”. (again the church will be right here when these judgments are in effect). and this is what happen in Revelation 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie”.
Conclusion: The first beast reveals the White Horse rider, the false Messiah, false hope of saints as well as the world.
The second beast here in verse 7 is the Calf/Oxen, which reveals the work of the red horseman rider in chapter 6, here Calf/Oxen represent, strength and POWER. Satan is given power to test the saint of God, scripture, Job 1:9-12 "Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?. Verse 10 "Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. Verse 11 "But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. Verse 12 "And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD”.
The apostle Paul says it best, Romans 12:21 "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good”. the Red rider repent blood in war, but our warfare is not carnal, but spiritual, see 2 Corinthians 10:4
Conclusion: the second beast reveals a time of the testing of the saints, and the world. even if it causes some their deaths.
The third beast is a man, which reveals the the third horseman rider of the black horse chapter 6. darkness or black means DEATH, and famine. A famine both spiritual and Natural. Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD”
Conclusion: Natural and spiritual famine all cause by man. John said "as" a man not "like" a man but as.
The Fourth beast is like a flying Eagle, which reveals the the fourth horseman the pale rider of chapter 6. a “flying” eagle symbolize patience, (seeing all, as with an eagle eye, knowing all) and then swift judgment like an eagle in flight. God judgments will come as a thief in the night. Job 24:13 "They are of those that rebel against the light; they know not the ways thereof, nor abide in the paths thereof. verse14 "The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief. Verse 15 "The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face”. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night”. 2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up”.
Conclusion: swift Judgment in the church and in the world. for God judgment starts at the church.
as said, we will see these Judgments in detail as the Beast/living creatures reveals the work of the riders of the four horseman. and these works of Judgment can only be reveal by our Lord "OPEANING" the seals that have been closed, or unknown. open means to know.
PICJAG.
The righteous JUDGMENTS of God.
after our Lord rose from the dead, and returned to heaven, pending Judgments are coming to the church as well as the world. and we will see, the first four judgments are revealed in detail. here in chapter 4, and greater detail in chapter 6. these first four judgement are Spiritual as well as natural. we will get into the details later in chapter 6.
Revelation 4:7 "And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle”.
I have heard many different commentary, interpertation, and speculation as to who and what these beast/living creatures are. but that's each to their own. Note: the beast/living creatures was “like” according to John, but the 3rd beast had the face “as” NOT like, but “AS” a man, big difference.
Now the bible will identify these four beast. And the KJV label then correctly as “BEASTS” for it is the “WORK of the LORD” in his judgments. these four beast symbolize the warning of the coming Judgments from “GOD”, from John time and point of view. as listed in chapter 6 with the four horseman. Each beast/living creature reveals a “WORK” of God in “Judgments” that was and is to come. The beast here reveals the work of the four horseman in chapter 6 when each beast says, "come and see". because our Lord has open the seals so we can see. open means to know. we will get into greater detail of each beast/living creature in chapter 6.
The first beast mention here in verse 7 is the Lion, (remember "like" a lion), which reveals the work of the rider of the white horse in chapter 6, which is the false prophet that war against the saints of God. The deceiver, the false Christ, or false Messiah, or anti-christs. For in this revelation the Lion is a spoiler, the opposite to the true Lion, to make dirty, tihe opposite of clean. Scripture, 1 Peter 5:8 & 9 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour”. verse 9 tell it all listen, 9 “Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world”. (again we see the church is not raptured out of the world). Colossians 2:8 "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ”. (again the church will be right here when these judgments are in effect). and this is what happen in Revelation 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie”.
Conclusion: The first beast reveals the White Horse rider, the false Messiah, false hope of saints as well as the world.
The second beast here in verse 7 is the Calf/Oxen, which reveals the work of the red horseman rider in chapter 6, here Calf/Oxen represent, strength and POWER. Satan is given power to test the saint of God, scripture, Job 1:9-12 "Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?. Verse 10 "Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. Verse 11 "But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. Verse 12 "And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD”.
The apostle Paul says it best, Romans 12:21 "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good”. the Red rider repent blood in war, but our warfare is not carnal, but spiritual, see 2 Corinthians 10:4
Conclusion: the second beast reveals a time of the testing of the saints, and the world. even if it causes some their deaths.
The third beast is a man, which reveals the the third horseman rider of the black horse chapter 6. darkness or black means DEATH, and famine. A famine both spiritual and Natural. Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD”
Conclusion: Natural and spiritual famine all cause by man. John said "as" a man not "like" a man but as.
The Fourth beast is like a flying Eagle, which reveals the the fourth horseman the pale rider of chapter 6. a “flying” eagle symbolize patience, (seeing all, as with an eagle eye, knowing all) and then swift judgment like an eagle in flight. God judgments will come as a thief in the night. Job 24:13 "They are of those that rebel against the light; they know not the ways thereof, nor abide in the paths thereof. verse14 "The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief. Verse 15 "The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face”. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night”. 2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up”.
Conclusion: swift Judgment in the church and in the world. for God judgment starts at the church.
as said, we will see these Judgments in detail as the Beast/living creatures reveals the work of the riders of the four horseman. and these works of Judgment can only be reveal by our Lord "OPEANING" the seals that have been closed, or unknown. open means to know.
PICJAG.
Last edited:
Revelation 4:8 "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come".
This scene seems to be taken straight out of the prophet book of Isaiah,
Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isaiah 6:2 "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Isaiah 6:4 "And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke”.
these seraphims, Resting neither night or day, giving glory to the Lord God almighty, this is the Lord’s work. Now, many have said that the “Father” is sitting on the throne, well lets see. In the book of John, he saw this same thing, listen.
John 12:37 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
John 12:38 "That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? (Isaiah 53:1)
John 12:39 "Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
John 12:40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. (Isaiah 6:9).
John 12:41 "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him”. BINGO. John just gave witness to the Lord Jesus as to what Isaiah said about him, (JESUS), who Isaiah saw sitting on the throne. BINGO.
What and who did Isaiah see?, Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple”. what Isaiah saw is the same thing John saw in chapter 12:39-41, and what he saw again on the island of Patmos in chapter 4. if one would read Isaiah chapter 6:1-4, it’s just like reading Revelation 4:8. it’s the SAME SCENE. Isaiah saw the Lord JESUS sitting on the throne, and John saw the exact same thing when he testified of him, (remember John came as a wittness to JESUS, the true light, John 1:6). But John said it best, John 12:37 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him”. still it's the same today, many Christian don't believe the Lord JESUS is sitting on the throne. Oh well.......
THESE VERSES HERE IN REVELATION CHAPTER 4 AS WELL AS JOHN CHAPTER 12, AND IN ISAIAH CHAPTER 6 PROVE THAT IT IS THE LORD JESUS WHO SITS ON THE THRONE, AS SON, AS HIGH PRIEST AND KING.
Here again, the Lord is Identified as the almighty. But is not the LORD, all caps the almighty? Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect”. that’s Jesus, if not then one has two almighty Gods, and that anti bible. as one poster said, "the LORD and the Lord are interchangable". as said, if that's true, then the distinct and separate person goes right out the door. for if they are interchangable then they are not distinct nor separate.
Holy, holy, holy, indicates that the Lord Jesus is the true and righteous Judge. For God is a HOLY GOD. Scripture, Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he”.
the Lord God Almighty, JESUS, is the which was, and is, and is to come, or the "I AM THAT I AM", that sits on the throne.
a re-reading of this post is nessary for clarification, and edification.
PICJAG.
This scene seems to be taken straight out of the prophet book of Isaiah,
Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isaiah 6:2 "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Isaiah 6:4 "And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke”.
these seraphims, Resting neither night or day, giving glory to the Lord God almighty, this is the Lord’s work. Now, many have said that the “Father” is sitting on the throne, well lets see. In the book of John, he saw this same thing, listen.
John 12:37 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
John 12:38 "That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? (Isaiah 53:1)
John 12:39 "Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
John 12:40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. (Isaiah 6:9).
John 12:41 "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him”. BINGO. John just gave witness to the Lord Jesus as to what Isaiah said about him, (JESUS), who Isaiah saw sitting on the throne. BINGO.
What and who did Isaiah see?, Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple”. what Isaiah saw is the same thing John saw in chapter 12:39-41, and what he saw again on the island of Patmos in chapter 4. if one would read Isaiah chapter 6:1-4, it’s just like reading Revelation 4:8. it’s the SAME SCENE. Isaiah saw the Lord JESUS sitting on the throne, and John saw the exact same thing when he testified of him, (remember John came as a wittness to JESUS, the true light, John 1:6). But John said it best, John 12:37 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him”. still it's the same today, many Christian don't believe the Lord JESUS is sitting on the throne. Oh well.......
THESE VERSES HERE IN REVELATION CHAPTER 4 AS WELL AS JOHN CHAPTER 12, AND IN ISAIAH CHAPTER 6 PROVE THAT IT IS THE LORD JESUS WHO SITS ON THE THRONE, AS SON, AS HIGH PRIEST AND KING.
Here again, the Lord is Identified as the almighty. But is not the LORD, all caps the almighty? Genesis 17:1 "And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect”. that’s Jesus, if not then one has two almighty Gods, and that anti bible. as one poster said, "the LORD and the Lord are interchangable". as said, if that's true, then the distinct and separate person goes right out the door. for if they are interchangable then they are not distinct nor separate.
Holy, holy, holy, indicates that the Lord Jesus is the true and righteous Judge. For God is a HOLY GOD. Scripture, Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he”.
the Lord God Almighty, JESUS, is the which was, and is, and is to come, or the "I AM THAT I AM", that sits on the throne.
a re-reading of this post is nessary for clarification, and edification.
PICJAG.
well Marks you should know me by now, as many here do, there is nothing anyone can do to offend me. point blank, nothing... (smile)
and if you can help in this discussion, as said, please do. and if it is to correct me, that's ok, I take no offense, I joy in the TRUTH. as said, "I rather want to know now that to pull a pokey the Pig at the Judgment seat of the Lord Jesus, stuttering".
so if you can help, then help.
PICJAG.
I take a simple view of the text.
Jesus dictates letters to the churches. Then He approaches the throne and receives the scroll, opening the seals. The seven seals are opened, and in the seventh seal, the seven trumpets are given. The trumpets are sounded, and then the bowls are given and poured out.
In chapters 10-13, we learn about what happens during the course of things, all specified with timing details.
In the first 4 seals, God makes Government, Society, Economy, and Ecology all hostile to man.
In the final 3 seals God closes out the church age, raptures the church, prepares to receive more Jewish martyrs, and sudden destruction begins, the earthquake starting in Israel, spreading through the entire earth.
The church removed, the 144,000 Jews are sealed, and begin to go through the cities of Israel. The church appears in heaven, an innumerable multitude before the throne.
On earth Gog and Magog are being destroyed as fire and blood and hail from the first trumpet falls.
The world system is complete disarray, the beast rises.
The plagues continue as the first 4 trumpets strike 1/3 of heaven and earth, the final three unleash otherworldly nightmares upon humanity.
The Witnesses prophesy unkillable, until the beast is given power, and kills them, 3.5 years in. The 144,000 are translated into heaven, and angels fly through through the skies proclaiming the Gospel, and giving warning.
The Beast sits in the temple as God, believing Israelites flee to the wilderness where as Elijah prepares them to be wed. Unbelieving Israelites are trapped by the beast armies, as he tries to extinguish them.
And the remainder of the world is herded to the image of the beast. Those who worship are marked and released, those who don't are killed.
The final plagues against first the earth, the sea, the rivers, and the sun, then against the kingdom of the beast, and to dry the River for the kings of the east, then against the cities of the earth.
Jesus prepares heaven to open into earth as the beast is trying to kill His people, who have been prepare now to receive Him.
Jesus returns and destroys the beast and his armies, the winepress of God's wrath.
Jesus sends His angels to gather the chosen, sits upon His throne, then the nations are gathered and judged. Some will enter His Kingdom, and sit at the wedding feast, many will go into eternal punishment. But through the persecutions and slaughter by the beast, all will have given their final answer to God. End of Age. Game over.
And 1000 years later, God creates a new heaven and new earth, in which righteousness lives, and which has never known the stain of sin, and God makes His home with man.
Naturally this can be expanded upon. I just wanted to give the the lay of the landscape as I understand things.
Much love!
Jesus dictates letters to the churches. Then He approaches the throne and receives the scroll, opening the seals. The seven seals are opened, and in the seventh seal, the seven trumpets are given. The trumpets are sounded, and then the bowls are given and poured out.
In chapters 10-13, we learn about what happens during the course of things, all specified with timing details.
In the first 4 seals, God makes Government, Society, Economy, and Ecology all hostile to man.
In the final 3 seals God closes out the church age, raptures the church, prepares to receive more Jewish martyrs, and sudden destruction begins, the earthquake starting in Israel, spreading through the entire earth.
The church removed, the 144,000 Jews are sealed, and begin to go through the cities of Israel. The church appears in heaven, an innumerable multitude before the throne.
On earth Gog and Magog are being destroyed as fire and blood and hail from the first trumpet falls.
The world system is complete disarray, the beast rises.
The plagues continue as the first 4 trumpets strike 1/3 of heaven and earth, the final three unleash otherworldly nightmares upon humanity.
The Witnesses prophesy unkillable, until the beast is given power, and kills them, 3.5 years in. The 144,000 are translated into heaven, and angels fly through through the skies proclaiming the Gospel, and giving warning.
The Beast sits in the temple as God, believing Israelites flee to the wilderness where as Elijah prepares them to be wed. Unbelieving Israelites are trapped by the beast armies, as he tries to extinguish them.
And the remainder of the world is herded to the image of the beast. Those who worship are marked and released, those who don't are killed.
The final plagues against first the earth, the sea, the rivers, and the sun, then against the kingdom of the beast, and to dry the River for the kings of the east, then against the cities of the earth.
Jesus prepares heaven to open into earth as the beast is trying to kill His people, who have been prepare now to receive Him.
Jesus returns and destroys the beast and his armies, the winepress of God's wrath.
Jesus sends His angels to gather the chosen, sits upon His throne, then the nations are gathered and judged. Some will enter His Kingdom, and sit at the wedding feast, many will go into eternal punishment. But through the persecutions and slaughter by the beast, all will have given their final answer to God. End of Age. Game over.
And 1000 years later, God creates a new heaven and new earth, in which righteousness lives, and which has never known the stain of sin, and God makes His home with man.
Naturally this can be expanded upon. I just wanted to give the the lay of the landscape as I understand things.
Much love!
first thanks for your quick simple view of the text. but I'm having a little bit of trouble in following you event line. for example,
PICJAG.
if the church is raptured, are you saying
who are the angels gatherning? because
that's why I asked who's left to gather? any that's are God's.
PICJAG.
Similar threads
