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VictoryinJesus
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- Jan 26, 2017
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Lol. No offense but the side name is heavy. Joyful and content with “a sister”. :)Psalm 68:4-6 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name Jah, and rejoice before him. [5] A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation. [6] God setteth the solitary in families: he bringeth out those which are bound with chains: but the rebellious dwell in a dry land.
Ok, it was a good side name, but I gotta honor your wishes. ... (smile), lol. hang in there. after we get some more responses we''ll hit some more importand verses.
but since chapter 5 was already mention. I believe the order is chapter 5 then 4 for the Son of God became High priest when he ascended into heaven after his resurrection which chapter 5 clearly shows. but we'll get it God willing.
PICJAG.
I'd go back to 1:19:
"Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"
"Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."
The things John saw . . . Jesus and the stars and the lampstands
The things which are . . . What was happening at that moment, the dictation of letters to the churches
The things which must be hereafter . . . the future.
Meta is the prepostion, "after", tauta is a basic plural pronoun, "these".
What he sees next, is this taking place in the future, or at that time?
Much love!
ok, I can understand your rationale, but consider this was not the Lord already resurrected, which chapter 5 shows? and 2 was it not that he sat as High Priest after his resurrection?. these things are past, are they not?
PICJAG.
chronological order is important to understand the events, was this not your point in post #344?
PICJAG.
sure, not here either, but let me ask you this, "do you believe the event in chapter 4 happen before the events happen in chapter 5?".
PICJAG.
It is at the very beginning as highlighted in Rev 19
After. We just need to know the time gap between the two events that you are referring to.
It really depends on what is meant by: -
Revelation 5:5b: - Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed
The bible is silent on the meaning of "revailed"
The root word G:3528 has the following Strong definition: -
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
conquer, overcome, prevail
From nike; to subdue (literally or figuratively) -- conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory.
From nike; to subdue (literally or figuratively) -- conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory.
To suggest that the word "prevail" in verse 5:5 above is only pointing to the Resurrection of Christ is misleading in one sense in that it limits the understanding and does not consider that the verse could be pointing to a judgement effected by conquering over a particular group, in this case the Kings of the earth.
That is an arrogant understanding given and perpetuated by the "church" for this present time.
Yes it is the time for the Gentiles to come into Christ's flock, but it is also the same period of time when God walked contrary to the Nation of Israel and the Nation of Israel walked contrary to God.
Shalom
Chapter 4 is mostly descriptive of the scene. The actions that occur are John being brought into heaven, and the worship towards God by th eliving creatures and by the elders. Chapter 5 opens with the offering and acceptance of the Scroll.
I would consider both chapters really part of the same passage, the heavenly scene where John finds himself.
The question is there of why none were found worthy to open the scroll, and then the Lamb slaughtered is seen and takes the scroll.
IF . . John is seeing after his time (AD 60 to AD 90), then why isn't Jesus already there? If John is seeing before his time, then why is this "after these things"?
I propose to take the timing cues exactly as stated, even if it doesn't seem to make sense, since these are generally simply stated.
This is what must take place hereafter, and this is what is described, therefore, it must be hereafter.
I think that John enters the heavenly throne room, as it were, and witnesses as Jesus appears as the slaughtered lamb, and accepts the scroll of judgment and woe, at some future time. but not dogmatic on that . . .
Much love!
101G said: ↑
another question, did not the Lord Jesus resurrected according to chapter 5, which is before the Millennium Age.
the Lamb is standing as it had been slain. a slain lamb now standing is a "resurrected" one. and Jesus was slain now risen. so that verse is clear indicating of his resurrection.
101G said: ↑
another question here, did the Lord receive the KINGDOM before he died on the cross or after?.
PICJAG.
another question, did not the Lord Jesus resurrected according to chapter 5, which is before the Millennium Age.
thanks for the reply, but no need to examine the word prevail as pointing to his resurrection, here it is. Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth".
the Lamb is standing as it had been slain. a slain lamb now standing is a "resurrected" one. and Jesus was slain now risen. so that verse is clear indicating of his resurrection.
101G said: ↑
another question here, did the Lord receive the KINGDOM before he died on the cross or after?.
AFTER I agree, scripture, Hebrews 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession". he passed into the heavens "AFTER" his resurrection. so the events in chapter 5 happen before chapter 4. is this correct.
PICJAG.
this is my point, he had to resurrect before he sits as High priest. and he sits after he ascended into heaven.
PICJAG.
The answer is right there in Chapter 5 verse 9:
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation...
Right. For you it is Jesus on the throne in chapter 4, so this must be after Jesus comes as a lamb slaughtered. Am I tracking with you?
Revelation 5:9 "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"
now, no man was found, Revelation 5:4 "And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon". as you said,"The answer is right there in Chapter 5 verse 9". lets see who this is. Isaiah 59:16 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him". his "OWN ARM?". Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me".
so who is the ARM of God? JESUS. arm siginfy "POWER", supportive Scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God".
now Isaiah said, "HIS", meaning God, "OWN" ARM, Jesus is God himself in flesh. for it was the LAMB who stood as it was slain. not the Lamb of God, but the Lamb.
PICJAG
What I mean is, why is Jesus only getting to heaven decades after John watched him ascend in Acts 1?
First thanks for the reply, second, no it's not me but the scriptures that place the Lord Jesus on the throne, for he's King and ... HIGH PRIEST, and a sitting Priest siginfy he is finish from his work vs a standing priest who wok is not complete.
and no, he's on the throne right now as we speak, fulfilling Psalms 110:1. it is his Spirit that is here in the earth realm, and that happen on Pentecost. for the Seven are before his throne. is not heaven his thron and earth his footstool? Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
PICJAG.
the chronological order is resurrection, (chapter 5), with the sending of the Holy Spirit. pentecost the coming of the KINGDOM, he's enthrone in heaven, Chapter 4.
PICJAG.
PICJAG.
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