Do I Have To Go To Church?

[bbyrd009]

a Believer who does not speak in Satan's Dialectic, who can find them?

 

[amadeus]

Hi Amadeus,

First off it was not Marymog "who concluded that the verse in Matthew 18:20 was referring to church discipline". It was Jesus who was referring to Church discipline.

If this is so, I apologize for putting on you something that was not yours. I was going according to posted words. I don't know all of the answers to every thing nor all of the background information on which everyone's answers are based. LOL, sometimes I forget myself where I first received something that I believe.

IN CONTEXT Jesus was telling the Apostles if there is a disagreement amongst church members they are to take their disagreement to the church leaders and the church leaders have the final authority to decide who should be treated as a pagan/tax collector or what is to be bound in heaven and on earth. That is why he told the Apostles; Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. 19 Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them.

Thank you for your explanation of the basis for your response.

Your theory is that the YOU in Jesus statement is any 2 or 3 Christians gathered in His name. That theory is not sustainable or logical!! If it was what are we to do when 2 or 3 Christians are gathered in His name and they disagree with 2 or 3 other Christians gathered in His name??? Logically BOTH groups decision can NOT be bound in heaven and on earth. Therefore your theory is not sustainable!!!

You apparently do not understand what I meant nor what I believe Jesus intended as a more important meaning to the expression translated in English as "in my name". Two or three people really "in His name" will never disagree while they are "in His name". People may say that they are "in His name" and perhaps they will even believe it, but that does not make it so. God always knows.

In Scripture the witnesses against Naboth were called scoundrals, worthless men, wicked men (1 Kings 21:13) soooo how do you come up with the conclusion that they were led by the Holy Spirit?

I would never have said that.

Without reviewing my post, what I might have suggested is that IF the witnesses were led by the Spirit the result would have been different. They were not led by the Holy Spirit.

I do not understand your theory that Matthew 18:20 is "relating rather to how we should always gather together in groups of not less than 2 or 3 in worship or prayer "in His name" to assure that He would also be present with us." Your theory suggest that He is not "present with us" if we are worshiping Him or praying to Him while alone.
Mary

No, when we are praying alone He may well be there, but the whole idea of the Body of Christ is that it does not consist of only one part, but many [Read I Cor 12... espec. verses 12-20]. The two or three is used to indicate a multiplier of things in scripture, especially perhaps with regard to the power and finality of things coming from God. There are many examples but I will give you a few:

"And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass." Gen 41:42

"Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken." Ecc 4:9-12

"One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." Deut 19:15

 

[amadeus]

You sound very judgmental when you say that YOU get to decide WHO is regularly walking in His name

I don't get to decide and I did not say that I did. I speak from my own experience.. whether or not you or anyone else accept it. As to Catholics I tried vin all my years as an active Catholic to stay on the Lord's side as best I could. I failed miserably at times, but regularly went to the priest in confession and took Holy Communion. While no one else in my home went to mass, I went to mass several times a week. I saw what everyone else was not doing and I saw my own need, in spite of my best efforts, to confess my sins again and again. God did call me to a better place and it was not in a church setting, because all of those in their own different or similar ways missed it as badly as had the Catholics in my experience.

No one can walk in His name without help. If a person is really hungry and thirsty for the righteousness of God... even if he doesn't know what that means... God will help them. His help requires our surrender. We need to surrender as often as we need help. I relate this to others, but it applies to me too. The way up toward Him is down:

"For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:11

 

[Triumph1300]

You sound very judgmental when you say that YOU get to decide WHO is regularly walking in His name

It is actually you who has been judgemental in every single post you have put on this forum.

It's not Amadeus who's judgemental.

And I believe it is because of you that several people don't post here anymore and
have moved on to other Christian forums because they are fed up with you and a few other ones.

Go ahead, call me a troll again, as you have done before.

Good bye Marymog.

 

[mjrhealth]

Hopefully the church you attend is blessed with many non Christian in attendance. The church worships, but it also evangelizes and that is impossible if there are no non Christians.

I dont attend church, the wheat and the tares, the sheep and the goats, they will both grow together, but Christ will separate the two.

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

 

[Marymog]

Disagree.

A sinner is evil??? Sooooo YOU are evil???

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Two or three people really "in His name" will never disagree while they are "in His name".

Completely and utterly NOT TRUE. If it where true we would not have THOUSANDS of different denominations with disagreeing doctrines.

Your logic makes zero sense.

Thank you for your time.

 

[mjrhealth]

A sinner is evil??? Sooooo YOU are evil???

Curious Mary

Well that makes at least 2 of you.

 

[Marymog]

I don't get to decide and I did not say that I did.

The FACT is that you did decide when you said "Unfortunately few Catholics in my experience regularly walk in His name."

From YOUR experience YOU have decided that few Catholics walk in His name. That means that YOU have ALSO decide who walks in His name.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

It is actually you who has been judgemental in every single post you have put on this forum.

It's not Amadeus who's judgemental.

And I believe it is because of you that several people don't post here anymore and
have moved on to other Christian forums because they are fed up with you and a few other ones.

Go ahead, call me a troll again, as you have done before.

Good bye Marymog.

Hi troll,

Ummmm......I didn't write the words "Unfortunately few Catholics in my experience regularly walk in His name." Amadeus wrote those words soooooo you are wrong...as usual.

Mary

 

[reformed1689]

A sinner is evil??? Sooooo YOU are evil???

Curious Mary

The unsaved? Absolutely. They are not righteous in any way.

 

[reformed1689]

I dont attend church,

Which is unbiblical.

 

[Marymog]

The unsaved? Absolutely. They are not righteous in any way.

I said that just because one is a sinner that does not make one evil.

In post #139 where you disagreed with me that disagreement suggest that YOU think that sinners are evil. You are a sinner.....are you not?

Patient Mary

 

[mjrhealth]

Which is unbiblical.

No it is not. So much ignorance.

 

[reformed1689]

No it is not. So much ignorance.

Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.

 

[mjrhealth]

What has that to do with Church, do you know where JEsus assembled, on the Hill tops, in the valleys, on the beach, around a fire, even in the bars,

Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Luk 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

 

[reformed1689]

What has that to do with Church, do you know where JEsus assembled, on the Hill tops, in the valleys, on the beach, around a fire, even in the bars,

Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Luk 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Do you know what we call church is? It is the assembling of the saints together. You are forsaking that by not going to church. In fact, you hate the church, you have made that quite clear.

 

[amadeus]

Completely and utterly NOT TRUE. If it where true we would not have THOUSANDS of different denominations with disagreeing doctrines.

Your logic makes zero sense.

Thank you for your time.

Although supposedly a reader and a teacher still you do not understand what I wrote? The thousands of churches with disagreeing doctrines you mention exist due to people not really willing to pay the price to get "in His name" and stay there. The problem is not in the Catholic Church alone. It is in people of probably every church setting as well as those outside of churches...

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:" II Tim 3:5

People want the blessings but are unwilling to pay God's price, even though He has given every one of them the entrance fee. Jesus opened the Way, but we have to pay that fee:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

 

[mjrhealth]

Do you know what we call church is? It is the assembling of the saints together. You are forsaking that by not going to church. In fact, you hate the church, you have made that quite clear.

Church , saints,

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Whats "church, got to do with Jesus, His Church is

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Holy spotless without blemish

 

[amadeus]

The FACT is that you did decide when you said "Unfortunately few Catholics in my experience regularly walk in His name."

From YOUR experience YOU have decided that few Catholics walk in His name. That means that YOU have ALSO decide who walks in His name.

Mary

I only know what God has shown me! You want to focus on the words I said about Catholics. The problem is NOT a specifically Catholic one.

It is a people following their own flesh problem and always has been since Adam and Eve disobeyed God. You want to draw a line between Catholics and others as if that difference would make the difference. While you are fighting against people, including some who really love God, God would like you to refocus your efforts on loving Him. You'll gain no brownie points with God by trying to do what you believe is His work. That is what Saul of Tarsis or Paul the Apostle tried to before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. He was wrong, as you are wrong.