Always Spirit-Filled Or Unsaved?

[Waiting on him]

I think many modern believers are trying to be the "saved" of the world rather than a light to the world. The self-centered gospel is easy and popular and hides a great lie.

The objective is to manifest Christ to the world.

 

[Nancy]

OK...here are some times whereby a person is cited in the bible in the NT with being filled with the Spirit...and both times they saw into heaven with supernatural sight.

Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,


Revelation 1:10
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

And then there are the exhortations to walk in the Spirit...which is something few have experienced in our time...

Being in the Spirit is to be where God is in Zion. That is what it means to ABIDE in Him. This is so far above what modern believers can understand.

Can't forget:
"After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly." Acts 4:31

or "And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit," Luke 1:41

or "For he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord." Acts 11:24

 

[Nancy]

I understand. Sometime I have needed to clarify what I have posted.

But be sure to ask Jesus for that guidance. Don't ask the Holy Spirit that, because that would be dishonoring the Son since He is the only Mediator between God and man. The Holy Spirit speaks what He hears from Jesus and so our guidance is from the Bridegroom.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.... 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Catholics were taught to seek the gifts of the Spirit from the Holy Spirit and they got tongues without interpretation; problem was in spite of that happening in earlier history of the Catholic Church as they taking it as a sign that they were keeping the doctrines within when Paul plainly said tongues do not serve as a signs towards the believers for anything ( 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 ) the RCC has never been reproved by the Holy Spirit.

Indeed, there is such a thing as a Charismatic Catholic Church today and still no reproof from the Holy Spirit from all that tongues for private use.

It is better to know what we had prayed for so we can give the Father thanks in Jesus name for answers to prayers which is the will of God in Christ Jesus for us to do.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Anyway, just making sure your prayers are directed to Christ Jesus rather than asking the Holy Spirit for them which is a Catholic error in origin.

More bad wording on my part, lol...yes...Jesus is my only mediator to The Fathers ears. Ty.

 

[Episkopos]

Experiences aside, where do you find in the Bible that anyone who says that the Holy Spirit is permanently in us has nothing besides a conviction with no evidence? Or that it's not actually true?

As the earnest of our inheritance, this is God's commitment to us to follow through on His promise, suiting His desire, to gather us together to be His family.

I see people in real life...not in the bible. The only people I see in the bible are the people mentioned in the bible. Now I know that sounds way too realistic and non-religious...but that is how reality works. So then I don't need a verse to go along with stubbing my toe or talking to a friend. So I live my life looking to God...and going places without even carrying a bible around. I don't have dependence on a book. I depend on the living God.

There was a skit many years ago whereby a young man was suffering withdrawals from reading the bible at a summer camp. And to get him through the night someone had to read him bible verses so he still felt "saved." And then he realized that God is still alive and you can walk with Him by faith...without having a bible in your hand. revolutionary!

One must be very careful not to presume with God. He doesn't suffer fools for long.

 

[Episkopos]

The objective is to manifest Christ to the world.

But the modern church has turned that into the ego boost of getting yourself "saved."

 

[Enow]

I see where you get your religious logic from...but that is NOT your true spiritual condition. You are pretending something is true by reading a book. If you read the bible you will see that nobody was pretending in the early church.

I have a thread on dogmatic certainties. It's a pathological condition that has many sufferers...because of all the bad teaching out there.

Let me play devil's advocate on my application of Matthew 9:17;

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

One could say that Jesus was talking about when we are perfect and not now in our current state as a believer thus it could not be about our salvation moment.

BUT.. then there are more verses that testify to that effect about our salvation moment thus confirming that application of Matthew 9:17.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

That is a promise for Jesus to all who come to & believe in Him that they will never seek to be filled again for they are Spirit-filled forever.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

For all of us to say the same thing and hold to the same judgment, there can be no more drink of the One Spirit after salvation moment.

I can go on, but these are two more witnesses from scripture confirming the application of Matthew 9:17 as being about our salvation moment.

Do we acknowledge the truth in His words about our salvation or do we go after the rudiment in the world in how they receive spirits again and again after a sign or outward manifestation, thus denying Him as always with us as we are always Spirit-filled as a testimony from God that we are saved?

 

[Episkopos]

Do we acknowledge the truth in His words about our salvation or do we go after the rudiment in the world in how they receive spirits again and again after a sign or outward manifestation, thus denying Him as always with us as we are always Spirit-filled as a testimony from God that we are saved?

If you were writing a fictitious novel about the early church...I would say go for it. But we are talking about a real God with real people here. You are so wrapped up in a religious theory you can't see the truth.

Such is the mind conditioning and hypnotic suggestions mill that operate in the group-think institutions falsely called "churches" of the modern era.

As in "tell the person next to you"..."you ARE seated in heavenly places"...say it again...again....again! And once the person gets that dazed happy look in their eyes (fully hypnotized) then people say....he's converted.

I remember listening to Reinhard Bonnke one time...terrible. What a manipulator. His scheme was to get people to close their eyes and think out what he was praying....like this...You are now going to the cross....and now you are dumping all your burdens there....and now you are seeing the narrow door...NOW ENTER IT! Now you are a disciple...congratulations.

It reminds me of the scary bedtime stories.

And I can see this as hogwash because I am not indoctrinated. It is perfectly safe to have a sound mind AND be a believer. Not many know that.

And the people accepted that for religion. And then they show up on forums and try to act as if what they have is truth in any way they can. But I know the signs....it's very easy to spot indoctrination. Watch for mind loops and circular reasoning.

(notice I didn't post any verses...that drives the indoctrinated ones batty)

 

[Waiting on him]

And I can see this as hogwash because I am not indoctrinated. It is perfectly safe to have a sound mind AND be a believer. Not many know that.

Weird you’ve posted this now, wife and I were just discussing this. Question is how is Christ manifest. Answer is people see your fully clothed in your right mind and the shackles are gone.

 

[Episkopos]

Weird you’ve posted this now, wife and I were just discussing this. Question is how is Christ manifest. Answer is people see your fully clothed in your right mind and the shackles are gone.

I've talked to people who are afraid to go to a church lest they become like the zombies that these produce. And I mean zombies...with that dead look in their eyes from indoctrination and hypnotic suggestion.

There is a reason for the popularity of zombies in the West. We ARE in a zombie apocalypse in the churches....spiritual zombies.

These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;

 

[Waiting on him]

I've talked to people who are afraid to go to a church lest they become like the zombies that these produce. And I mean zombies...with that dead look in their eyes from indoctrination and hypnotic suggestion.

There is a reason for the popularity of zombies in the West. We ARE in a zombie apocalypse in the churches....spiritual zombies.

These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;

Maybe all the more reason to be there, pulling from the fire?

 

[Episkopos]

Maybe all the more reason to be there, pulling from the fire?

Are you familiar with double-tapping? I would say that it is better to fellowship in the liberty of the Spirit away from the control mania we see.....and offer an alternative that is in freedom and truth. Our job is to follow Christ not to fix a broken religious system.

 

[Enow]

If you were writing a fictitious novel about the early church...I would say go for it. But we are talking about a real God with real people here. You are so wrapped up in a religious theory you can't see the truth.

The problem here is that I am seeing you talk like those at Toronto's Blessings that says "we do not need the word of God any more. All we need is the Spirit". and yet you seem to be denouncing all my attempts to reprove by the scripture what you are involving yourself with in testifying of.

Such is the mind conditioning and hypnotic suggestions mill that operate in the group-think institutions falsely called "churches" of the modern era.

Yet Paul warned of this as happening in the churches and in greater droves in the latter days;

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Can you point one out now to say that was that? Then you can understand next why I point otherwise as Paul points out that iniquity was happening even in his day for why he reminded believers of that tradition to reprove the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again or apart from salvation.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,.... 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way..... 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Side note; such damnation on believers falling away from the faith is becoming that vessel unto dishonor in His House ( unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes )

Now note the reminder to believers on the reproof for that lie so we can avoid that iniquity.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Paul goes on to talk about those falling away as "disorderly" and not after the tradition taught of us for why we are to withdraw from them ( 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 ) but not to treat them as the enemies, but admonish as brothers because they are still saved. ( 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 )

As in "tell the person next to you"..."you ARE seated in heavenly places"...say it again...again....again! And once the person gets that dazed happy look in their eyes (fully hypnotized) then people say....he's converted.

I remember listening to Reinhard Bonnke one time...terrible. What a manipulator. His scheme was to get people to close their eyes and think out what he was praying....like this...You are now going to the cross....and now you are dumping all your burdens there....and now you are seeing the narrow door...NOW ENTER IT! Now you are a disciple...congratulations.

It reminds me of the scary bedtime stories.

And I can see this as hogwash because I am not indoctrinated. It is perfectly safe to have a sound mind AND be a believer. Not many know that.

And the people accepted that for religion. And then they show up on forums and try to act as if what they have is truth in any way they can. But I know the signs....it's very easy to spot indoctrination. Watch for mind loops and circular reasoning.

(notice I didn't post any verses...that drives the indoctrinated ones batty)

Well, it does confirm what I see you as doing; judging everything not by the scriptures thus not heeding His words for why you and others would lose self control and fall in those movements of the "spirit".

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

You are drinking from another fountain and not having that other drink of the One Spirit at all.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

if you say you have not fallen down like that yet, then what about those around you? No good tree would produce an evil fruit for why that cannot be the Holy Spirit at all.

 

[Episkopos]

The problem here is that I am seeing you talk like those at Toronto's Blessings that says "we do not need the word of God any more. All we need is the Spirit". and yet you seem to be denouncing all my attempts to reprove by the scripture what you are involving yourself with in testifying of.

Your handlers have conditioned you to respond this way in a classic us and them...zero-sum game maneuver. I study the bible intensely in both French and English...and in Hebrew. Many hours a day...more than most people who say they follow the bible.

So I am not denigrating the bible...just your idolatrous reliance on it instead of the living God. But you will only see me an a god smasher....an idol toppler.

The bible speaks ABOUT the living God. But the letter also kills....it is the Spirit that gives life...and that is written IN the bible. Don't look for verse readings to get life.

 

[Enow]

Your handlers have conditioned you to respond this way in a classic us and them...zero-sum game maneuver. I study the bible intensely in both French and English...and in Hebrew. Many hours a day...more than most people who say they follow the bible.

So I am not denigrating the bible...just your idolatrous reliance on it instead of the living God. But you will only see me an a god smasher....an idol toppler.

The bible speaks ABOUT the living God. But the letter also kills....it is the Spirit that gives life...and that is written IN the bible. Don't look for verse readings to get life.

And yet you refer to a portion of a verse which makes you reliant on it for promoting what you are doing?

 

[Episkopos]

And yet you refer to a portion of a verse which makes you reliant on it for promoting what you are doing?

News flash: that is the purpose of the bible. To point to God and His eternal kind of life in the Spirit. Didn't you get the memo?!

 

[Enow]

News flash: that is the purpose of the bible. To point to God and His eternal kind of life in the Spirit. Didn't you get the memo?!

Scripture is to point you to come to the Son for life.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

That is why all invitations in coming to God the Father is by the only way of the Son so you can avoid seducing spirits & doctrines of devils.

 

[marks]

I see people in real life...not in the bible. The only people I see in the bible are the people mentioned in the bible. Now I know that sounds way too realistic and non-religious...but that is how reality works. So then I don't need a verse to go along with stubbing my toe or talking to a friend. So I live my life looking to God...and going places without even carrying a bible around. I don't have dependence on a book. I depend on the living God.

There was a skit many years ago whereby a young man was suffering withdrawals from reading the bible at a summer camp. And to get him through the night someone had to read him bible verses so he still felt "saved." And then he realized that God is still alive and you can walk with Him by faith...without having a bible in your hand. revolutionary!

One must be very careful not to presume with God. He doesn't suffer fools for long.

A verse to go with stubbing your toe?? What does that mean? It sounds like you want to make a perfectly valid question sound ridiculous.

If you mean to place whether or not you stub your toe as being on the same level of discussion as being filled with the Holy Spirt, well, I hardly know what to say!

There is a verse for stubbing your toe, you know, I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me. Paul spoke that of himself. I imagine you can look at that and say, "Well, it was Paul who could do all things through Christ Who strengthened him. Not you." You can say that, and it sounds like that is exactly what you do say. Please let me know if I misunderstand.

But then Paul also instructed those he wrote his letters to that that they should be imitators of him. This says to me that the readers should imitate the faith Paul had in God, including trusting that they could do all things, even enduring without sin an horribly stubbed toe!

So was that just for Paul? Meant for Paul, and the members of that 1st century church in Philippi? Or does God mean that for us? I think He meant it for us also.

So I live my life looking to God...and going places without even carrying a bible around. I don't have dependence on a book. I depend on the living God.

If God truly reveals Himself in Scripture, then I daresay we need to make sure that our ideas of God conform to that Scripture, or who knows what we'll come up with? People sometimes end up so far off in the weeds, one wonders that they can ever reach truth.

But again, at the end of the day, disparagement instead of a Scriptural response. That does not seem to change.

Much love!

 

[marks]

(notice I didn't post any verses...that drives the indoctrinated ones batty)

It's because your teaching is your own, and not from the Bible. That's all.

I just hope others will realize that.

 

[marks]

Your handlers have conditioned you to respond this way

More and more and more ad hominem, insulting language instead of Christian response. Do you Never tire of this?

 

[marks]

I've talked to people who are afraid to go to a church lest they become like the zombies that these produce. And I mean zombies...with that dead look in their eyes from indoctrination and hypnotic suggestion.

There is a reason for the popularity of zombies in the West. We ARE in a zombie apocalypse in the churches....spiritual zombies.

So you counsel Against looking to the Bible for truth, and Against assembling ourselves together. Again, very telling.

I wonder, as you've said you have a home church, I suppose Your church is the one that's OK, is that right?