Virgin Mary Had Other Children After Jesus

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Mungo

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The Holy Spirit did not have sexual relations with Mary. This was a divine miracle, not a human act.

Of course it was not a human act.
The Holy Spirit overshadowed her (Lk 1:35).

As we say in the Apostles Creed Jesus was "conceived by the Holy Spirit".
before they came together she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit (Mt 1:18)
for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit (Mt 1:20)

The Holy Spirit made her pregnant.
 
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Taken

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You are trying to reduce Mary and Joseph to an ordinary married couple in an ordinary marriage.

They were both humans, Jewish, Believed in God, obeyed God, served God according to His WILL.
They were Betrothed...(they being Jewish and faithful to God...the presumption, by their betrothal, they would have planned to Wed according to Jewish Custom)...

After their betrothal; and before they became husband and wife; came the angel messenger to give them a message From God.

They had One restriction (sound familiar? Adam ring a bell? One restriction...)
To not consummate their marriage UNTIL After "the Son of Gods Birth".

Matt 1:
[25] And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son:

Nothing whatsoever prohibited them from marrying, living together, doing all normal things married couples do... except hold off from sex for 9 months.

This was no such thing.

Hogwash. Any number of people could be betrothed/ engaged, wed, and suffer an accident, coma, and not consummate their marriage for months.

Mary was unique in all history.

Sure she was. No one said otherwise. And every woman baring a child can comprehend her blessed uniqueness.

As a couple they were the earthly parents of God incarnate.

You jump to knowledge THEY did not YET have.

As a human man and human woman, they were the:
Earthly parents of: A "holy thing", told he is To Be Called the Son of God..and JESUS.
And;
the LAWFUL (according to man's LAW),
parents of a baby boy.

Luke 1
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS:

Mary was the mother of God incarnate.

That is made up. The angel told Mary a "holy thing", Called the Son of God, and told Joseph to call Him JESUS...and later we are revealed that "holy thing" is the Word of God"...

FORETOLD in Isaiah 55:11 BY God..
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

And when that Holy thing accomplished...
John 19:
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


She has been chosen and sanctified to bear God.

Chosen Yes.
Sanctification (set apart) No.
That did not happen UNTIL, she received the Holy Spirit Acts 1,2.

Gods creation does not bare its own Creator!

You calling Mary the Mother of God is False teaching and NEVER taught out of Gods Mouth, nor was taught by Jesus, His Disciples, or written in Scripture.

God is without Beginning or Ending.
He has NO Beginning!
He has NO mommy or daddy.
He is ALMIGHTY...ALL Mighty.
Supreme Might and Power above ALL things.
He can MANIFEST Himself in ANY Likeness that pleases Him.
He elected to Manifest Himself..IN the "likeness" as a man...Phil 2
To teach hard headed- Stiffnecked Human men ...the Word of God, face to face, as an Example...for stiffnecked men TO SEE.

John 19:
[7] ... he made himself the Son of God.

There is not even evidence in scripture that they ever became married - only betrothed.

Sure it does.
They wed shortly AFTER being Informed Mary was conceived (pregnant) in her womb.
Matt 1:
[20] But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
[24] Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

Luke 2:
[4] And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David;
[5] To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

he was not just a surrogate mother that God borrowed from Joseph, used for his purposes and then handed back.

Come on man, that is juvenile Carnal talk, and the discussion is about the Spiritual Power of God.

By becoming pregnant by the Holy Spirit she became the spouse of the Holy Spirit - a covenant relationship.

Mary did Not Become Pregnant BY the Holy Spirit Fertilizing Mary's Seed!

A woman's Seed (egg) is Not "fertilized" by a seed in the Womb!

Fertilization of a woman's Seed occurs in the woman's Fallopian tube....then the fertalized egg, travels to the womb and THEN the woman is Conceived (pregnant).

No Seed is EvER mentioned being in Mary's WOMB or anywhere in Mary.

The everlasting, Word of God, came forth out from God, and By the Power of the Holy Spirit was entered into Mary's Womb, in a Body Prepared of God....for When He would come into the World. Heb 10:5

she became the spouse of the Holy Spirit - a covenant relationship.

Are you kidding?
You are teaching Gods Spirit marri-ED a human Woman?

Don't disappoint, SHOW The Source of Gods Word Teaching such incredible nonsense.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Taken

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Mt 1:25 says nothing Mary having sex after Jesus was born.
Until is a time marker, denoting up to a point in time. I think Illuminator has been through all this but I will go through it again for you.

The word until (or till) denotes a point in time up to which some action occurred. It does not mean that the action changed, only that there was something significant about that point in time. That point in time may be significant for reason other than a change in the action. What happened after that may be explicitly stated or may be inferred from the context, or may just be left unknown. To claim it always means the action changes is not valid and leads to absurdities.

Mt 1:25 cannot be used to prove that Mary had a sexual relationship with Joseph. To infer it is to claim what has yet to be proved.

Consider this line: "Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death" (2 Sam. 6:23 -).
Are we to assume therefore she had children after her death?

“There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived seven years with her husband after her marriage, and then as a widow until she was eighty-four.” Lk 2:36-37).
Does that imply she got married at the age of 84?

Jesus said to the Apostles “And remember, I am with you always, to (until) the end of the age.” (Mt 28:20).
Does that mean he won’t be with us after the end of the age?

"but to [until] this day no one knows the place of his [Moses] burial" (Deut 34:6)
Do we know the place of Moses burial?

"For he [Christ] must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet." (1Cor 15:25)
Will Christ stop reigning after he has put all his enemies under his feet?

"Until I arrive, attend to the reading, exhortation, and teaching."(1Tim 4:13)
After Paul arrives will Timothy stop reading, exhortation and teaching?

We know that all creation is groaning in labour pains even until now; (Rom 8:22)
Has creation stopped groaning?

"except that you must hold fast to what you have until I come." (Rev 2:25)
Do we stop holding fast after Christ comes?

"To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations."(Rev 2:26)
Do the victors stop keeping Christ’s ways at the end?

"keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1Tim 6:14)
Could Timothy stop keeping the commandments when Jesus appeared?

From the Concise OXford English Dictionary

until
n preposition & conjunction up to (the point in time or the event mentioned)
.

From the Collins Concise Dictionary says a little more:
until
1. up to (a time}
2. (used with a negative) before (a time of event)


Until is used to mark a period of time and says nothing about what happens outside that period of time.
Something happens, or does not happen from time point "A" until time point "B"
What happens after time point "B" we either:
1. simply do not know
2. infer from something else in the text
3. assume from the general context

Scripture does not to detail Mary and Joseph having Sex after Jesus' Birth, what they did, ate, visited, blah, blah.

Joseph and Mary are not the Highlight. They were man and wife raising their family, like married couples do.
It's About Jesus!
And from time to time, Mary is briefly mentioned, on occasion she is present where Jesus is.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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And from time to time, Mary is briefly mentioned, on occasion she is present where Jesus is.

Glory to God,
Taken
And on occasion - Jesus is mentioned where Mary is . . .
John 2:1-2
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding.
 

BreadOfLife

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Why are we even discussing this? It is not important. Our thinking will never be changed without the input and influence of the Holy Spirit, so perhaps we should all back off a bit and pray about it.
Let me explain to you WHY it's important - as ALL types and fulfillments in Scripture are important.

In the OT, there was the Ark of the Covenant, which held the symbols of Gods power and mercy within it.
In the NT, Mary is the Ark of the NEW Covenant, Jesus - who IS God's power and mercy itself.

Here is a short list of Scriptural comparisons of the ot Type that was the Ark of the New Covenant - and the NT fulfillment that is Mary, Ark of the NEW Covenant:

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38)

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - The On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the Covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - The On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

It's also important to remember that chapter and verse were not added by the Church until the Middle Ages. Before this, ALL of the Books of Scripture were read as one long letter with no breaks.

That being said - in the Book of Revelation, we see the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven being spoken of at the very end of Chapter 11, verse 19: Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

The very next verse is in Chapter 12 (Rev 12:1): A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Verse 2 says: She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read: She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.

There is simply no getting around the fact that the Woman here in Revelation 12 is Mary.
It also symbolizes Israel in another sense. This is knows as polyvalent symbolism.
 

BreadOfLife

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Pearl, you are on the right track. Mungo, transparently, comes from the dark side, promoting his ideology of darkness.

Keep the Faith!
Yes - this coming from a guy who repeatedly supports the abomination of abortion on this forum.

Can YOU say, "Hypocrisy"??
 

BreadOfLife

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And how can this dead woman be the mother of the eternal God, Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life?
Unless you DON'T believe that Jesus is God - then Mary IS the Mother of God.

NOT
that difficult to parse - for those of faith . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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No!! The fact that Mary had other children, is a historical fact recorded many places in Scripture
Since NOBODY else has been able to show us the Chapter and Verse - maybe YOU can then . . .
 

101G

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And on occasion - Jesus is mentioned where Mary is . . .
John 2:1-2
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding.

this is a very good and interesting verse, especially the verses when they left the wedding, scripture, John 2:12 "After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days". I wondered whay the Lord's "brethern" was NOT including his disciples. this term G80 ἀδελφός adelphos (a-d̮el-fos') n for "brother" is highly interesting. I had look at this before, but I'm looking at it using another dictionary which clearly shows how this term G80 ἀδελφός adelphos is used. I'm using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. and here is what it says,

[ 1,,G80, adelphos ]
denotes a brother, or near kinsman;" in the plural, "a community based on identity of origin or life." It is used of:

(1) male children of the same parents, Matt 1:2; Matt 14:3; (2) male descendants of the same parents, Acts 7:23, Acts 7:26; Heb 7:5; (3) male children of the same mother, Matt 13:55; 1Cor 9:5; Gal 1:19.

Galatians 1:19 states, "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother". in vines dictionary clearly has James the son of Zebedee in mind because of this,

Acts 12:1 "Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
Acts 12:2 "And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
Acts 12:3 "And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

only James that had a brother name John was of Zebedee. and if I'm right about, Matthew 27:55 & 56 "And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: verse 56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children".

this then connect James to the Lord Jesus, because Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?".

two things to note: why call Mary his Mother? was this Mary not,his mother? and why used "brethren", to identify his "brothers?" in this way?

In all honesty look at this and the definition and tell me what you think. just research it first, and then tell us what you think honesty.

thanks in advance.

PICJAG.
 

BreadOfLife

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this is a very good and interesting verse, especially the verses when they left the wedding, scripture, John 2:12 "After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days". I wondered whay the Lord's "brethern" was NOT including his disciples. this term G80 ἀδελφός adelphos (a-d̮el-fos') n for "brother" is highly interesting. I had look at this before, but I'm looking at it using another dictionary which clearly shows how this term G80 ἀδελφός adelphos is used. I'm using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. and here is what it says,

[ 1,,G80, adelphos ]
denotes a brother, or near kinsman;" in the plural, "a community based on identity of origin or life." It is used of:

(1) male children of the same parents, Matt 1:2; Matt 14:3; (2) male descendants of the same parents, Acts 7:23, Acts 7:26; Heb 7:5; (3) male children of the same mother, Matt 13:55; 1Cor 9:5; Gal 1:19.

Galatians 1:19 states, "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother". in vines dictionary clearly has James the son of Zebedee in mind because of this,

Acts 12:1 "Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
Acts 12:2 "And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
Acts 12:3 "And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

only James that had a brother name John was of Zebedee. and if I'm right about, Matthew 27:55 & 56 "And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: verse 56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children".

this then connect James to the Lord Jesus, because Matthew 13:55 "Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?".

two things to note: why call Mary his Mother? was this Mary not,his mother? and why used "brethren", to identify his "brothers?" in this way?

In all honesty look at this and the definition and tell me what you think. just research it first, and then tell us what you think honesty.

thanks in advance.

PICJAG.
I have looked into this - as have many experts.

The "other" Mary standing near the cross is clearly the mother of James and Joses, the "brethren of the Lord". She is also called the "wife of Clopas".

This other Mary is ALSO called the "sister" (Adelphe) of the mother of Jesus (Mary). We know that they can't be uterine sisters because they have the same name - so they are some other relation.

Therefore, these "brethren of the Lord" ore related to Jesus in some way - but NOT His uterine siblings.
 

BreadOfLife

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No, because it wasn't a marriage, they didn't become one flesh.
She was impregnated by the Holy Spirit.
YOU stated that this was "creepy?

Why - if that Spirit was God?
 

101G

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I have looked into this - as have many experts.

The "other" Mary standing near the cross is clearly the mother of James and Joses, the "brethren of the Lord". She is also called the "wife of Clopas".

This other Mary is ALSO called the "sister" (Adelphe) of the mother of Jesus (Mary). We know that they can't be uterine sisters because they have the same name - so they are some other relation.

Therefore, these "brethren of the Lord" ore related to Jesus in some way - but NOT His uterine siblings.
first thanks for the reply, and that's the problem. can you or anyone give an example of two females in a family having the same name, or the same first name?. if so please give verse or site the reference.

thanks.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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I have looked into this - as have many experts.

The "other" Mary standing near the cross is clearly the mother of James and Joses, the "brethren of the Lord". She is also called the "wife of Clopas".

This other Mary is ALSO called the "sister" (Adelphe) of the mother of Jesus (Mary). We know that they can't be uterine sisters because they have the same name - so they are some other relation.

Therefore, these "brethren of the Lord" ore related to Jesus in some way - but NOT His uterine siblings.
now may I suggest something, if not uterine, then is this the Mary here, Matthew 27:56 is the same Mary that's Jesus Mother, "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.

PICJAG.
 

Renniks

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She was impregnated by the Holy Spirit.
YOU stated that this was "creepy?

Why - if that Spirit was God?
Any way I thought the Catholic church at one time taught Jesus didn't even pass through the birth canal, because that would be too unholy. They add a lot of baggage to the virginal birth and Mary that just isn't in scripture.
 
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