Virgin Mary Had Other Children After Jesus

[Mungo]

Pearl, you are on the right track. Mungo, transparently, comes from the dark side, promoting his ideology of darkness.

Keep the Faith!

Pearl, awesome!
With Mungo, we see Satan manifested in the flesh!! His majesty Satan must be really stirred up these days to conduct such a campaign to eliminate true believers from this website.

Stan you need to repent.

 

[Mungo]

Point is: there are children whom Mary was identified as their Mother.

Buyt not Mary the mother of Jesus.

A husband and wife are supposed to be fruitful and multiply...as God directed<- that would require the husband and wife to engage in sex.

We know Joseph and Mary had been Married over 10 years when They went to the Passover, and Jesus lingered behind...

So as Mary was highly favored of God, and was so obedient (even SINLESS, according to Catholic teaching)...wouldn't it have been a sin for Mary to not be fruitful and at least TRY to multiply, and have children with her lawful husband?

You are trying to reduce Mary and Joseph to an ordinary married couple in an ordinary marriage.

This was no such thing. Mary was unique in all history. As a couple they were the earthly parents of God incarnate. Mary was the mother of God incarnate. She has been chosen and sanctified to bear God.

There is not even evidence in scripture that they ever became married - only betrothed.

She was not just a surrogate mother that God borrowed from Joseph, used for his purposes and then handed back. By becoming pregnant by the Holy Spirit she became the spouse of the Holy Spirit - a covenant relationship.

 

[Mungo]

Ok so you say there is no proof Mary had other children after Jesus.

WHO are these children's mother and father?
--->
Matt. 13:
[55] Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

See post #27

 

[Mungo]

it do, so no need to further this conversation. when scripture is clear as day, why argue with the blind.

good day.

PICJAG.

If scripture was as clear as day we would not be having these arguments.

 

[Mungo]

My question is in Post # 130

My question asked you nothing about Catholics, Mary, brothers or anything you posted in your reply.

Could you simply answer the question?

How did I not answer your question?

 

[Mungo]

Wrong to "infer"? Hogwash.
Trust the plain facts.

Perhaps it is wrong for you to not consider the context, that a timeframe for Joseph to know his wife was limited Before Jesus' birth, and no limited presented for Joseph to know his wife...After Jesus was born.

Heos (till) does define a "limit" and the "release" of the "limit" per the context of the timeframe.

Matt 1:
[25] And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Joesph did not know (have sex) with His wife (Mary) for a limited timeframe.
Joseph knew his wife Mary...when the timeframe passed...PLAINLY revealed, was after she birthed Jesus.

Mt 1:25 says nothing Mary having sex after Jesus was born.
Until is a time marker, denoting up to a point in time. I think Illuminator has been through all this but I will go through it again for you.

The word until (or till) denotes a point in time up to which some action occurred. It does not mean that the action changed, only that there was something significant about that point in time. That point in time may be significant for reason other than a change in the action. What happened after that may be explicitly stated or may be inferred from the context, or may just be left unknown. To claim it always means the action changes is not valid and leads to absurdities.

Mt 1:25 cannot be used to prove that Mary had a sexual relationship with Joseph. To infer it is to claim what has yet to be proved.

Consider this line: "Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death" (2 Sam. 6:23 -).
Are we to assume therefore she had children after her death?

“There was also a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived seven years with her husband after her marriage, and then as a widow until she was eighty-four.” Lk 2:36-37).
Does that imply she got married at the age of 84?

Jesus said to the Apostles “And remember, I am with you always, to (until) the end of the age.” (Mt 28:20).
Does that mean he won’t be with us after the end of the age?

"but to [until] this day no one knows the place of his [Moses] burial" (Deut 34:6)
Do we know the place of Moses burial?

"For he [Christ] must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet." (1Cor 15:25)
Will Christ stop reigning after he has put all his enemies under his feet?

"Until I arrive, attend to the reading, exhortation, and teaching."(1Tim 4:13)
After Paul arrives will Timothy stop reading, exhortation and teaching?

We know that all creation is groaning in labour pains even until now; (Rom 8:22)
Has creation stopped groaning?

"except that you must hold fast to what you have until I come." (Rev 2:25)
Do we stop holding fast after Christ comes?

"To the victor, who keeps to my ways until the end, I will give authority over the nations."(Rev 2:26)
Do the victors stop keeping Christ’s ways at the end?

"keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1Tim 6:14)
Could Timothy stop keeping the commandments when Jesus appeared?

From the Concise OXford English Dictionary
until
n preposition & conjunction up to (the point in time or the event mentioned).

From the Collins Concise Dictionary says a little more:
until
1. up to (a time}
2. (used with a negative) before (a time of event)

Until is used to mark a period of time and says nothing about what happens outside that period of time.
Something happens, or does not happen from time point "A" until time point "B"
What happens after time point "B" we either:
1. simply do not know
2. infer from something else in the text
3. assume from the general context

 

[Stan B]

Stan you need to repent.

Repent to whom? Satan?

 

[Pearl]

Why are we even discussing this? It is not important. Our thinking will never be changed without the input and influence of the Holy Spirit, so perhaps we should all back off a bit and pray about it.

 

[Stan B]

Why are we even discussing this? It is not important. Our thinking will never be changed without the input and influence of the Holy Spirit, so perhaps we should all back off a bit and pray about it.

Because God has given us a mandate to: "not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;" Ephesians 5:11

 

[Grailhunter]

Why are we even discussing this? It is not important. Our thinking will never be changed without the input and influence of the Holy Spirit, so perhaps we should all back off a bit and pray about it.

Well Pearl it is important. But it is not about salvation. It is about the details. Some dig a little deeper than others and there is nothing wrong with that. Enjoy the conversion.

 

[Stan B]

Well Pearl it is important. But it is not about salvation. It is about the details. Some dig a little deeper than others and there is nothing wrong with that. Enjoy the conversion.

And some dig their own eternal grave. :-(

 

[Stan B]

Stan you need to repent.

The day will never come when I bow to your god!

My faith is solidly placed in the finished work of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!

 

[Grailhunter]

And some dig their own eternal grave. :-(

Truth has always had enemies.

 

[Mungo]

The day will never come when I bow to your god!

Since my God is Jesus does that mean you will never bow to him?

My faith is solidly placed in the finished work of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!

But apparently not your God.

BTW, Jesus' work isn't finished.
who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us? (Rom 8:34).
Or do you think Jesus has stopped interedi9ng for us?

 

[Mungo]

Repent to whom? Satan?

Repent to whoever is your God.

 

[101G]

how many “Mary’s?”
Matthews Account: Matthew 27:54 "Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Matthew 27:56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.

1.Mary Jesus Mother.
2.Mary the mother of James and Joses, (Lesser) Cleophas or Alphaeus sons
3.Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.(Greater)???????
4.Mary Magdalene,

Mark Account: Mark 15:40 "There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

1.Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses Cleophas or Alphaeus sons
2.Mary Magdalene
Missing, Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.(Greater)???????

John’s Account: John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

1.Mary Jesus Mother.
2.Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses Cleophas or Alphaeus sons

in John's account 19:25, is this Mary John's Mother?, or is it's Jesus Mother or is it both of their Mother? and is the other Mary his, and Jesus aunt? but as gill comentary states, how and why two sisters are name the very same NAME, "mary?". read Gill's commentary on John

now, one more verse, Matthew 27:56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children. STOP, hold it, is this verse saying that the Mother of James and Joses is the same mother of Zebedee's children?

we might want to read that again.

PICJAG.

 

[Grailhunter]

how many “Mary’s?”
Matthews Account: Matthew 27:54 "Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Matthew 27:56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.

1.Mary Jesus Mother.
2.Mary the mother of James and Joses, (Lesser) Cleophas or Alphaeus sons
3.Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.(Greater)???????
4.Mary Magdalene,

Mark Account: Mark 15:40 "There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

1.Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses Cleophas or Alphaeus sons
2.Mary Magdalene
Missing, Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.(Greater)???????

John’s Account: John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

1.Mary Jesus Mother.
2.Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses Cleophas or Alphaeus sons

in John's account 19:25, is this Mary John's Mother?, or is it's Jesus Mother or is it both of their Mother? and is the other Mary his, and Jesus aunt? but as gill comentary states, how and why two sisters are name the very same NAME, "mary?". read Gill's commentary on John

now, one more verse, Matthew 27:56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children. STOP, hold it, is this verse saying that the Mother of James and Joses is the same mother of Zebedee's children?

we might want to read that again.

PICJAG.

Scholars call it the muddle of the Marys. Good luck with that. Mary is English...Maria....Latin...Miriam Jewish.

 

[Mungo]

how many “Mary’s?”
Matthews Account: Matthew 27:54 "Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Matthew 27:56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.

1.Mary Jesus Mother.
2.Mary the mother of James and Joses, (Lesser) Cleophas or Alphaeus sons
3.Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.(Greater)???????
4.Mary Magdalene,

Mark Account: Mark 15:40 "There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

1.Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses Cleophas or Alphaeus sons
2.Mary Magdalene
Missing, Mary the mother of Zebedee's children.(Greater)???????

John’s Account: John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

1.Mary Jesus Mother.
2.Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses Cleophas or Alphaeus sons

in John's account 19:25, is this Mary John's Mother?, or is it's Jesus Mother or is it both of their Mother? and is the other Mary his, and Jesus aunt? but as gill comentary states, how and why two sisters are name the very same NAME, "mary?". read Gill's commentary on John

now, one more verse, Matthew 27:56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children. STOP, hold it, is this verse saying that the Mother of James and Joses is the same mother of Zebedee's children?

we might want to read that again.

PICJAG.

Don't forget Mary of Bethany,the sister of Lazarus and Martha. References are:
Listening to Jesus ( Lk 10:38-42; Jn 11 – although the location is not named in Luke 1
Anointing Jesus feet & wiping them with her hair (Jn 11:2; Jn 12:3)
At raising of Lazarus (Jn chapter 11)

 

[101G]

Don't forget Mary of Bethany,the sister of Lazarus and Martha. References are:
Listening to Jesus ( Lk 10:38-42; Jn 11 – although the location is not named in Luke 1
Anointing Jesus feet & wiping them with her hair (Jn 11:2; Jn 12:3)
At raising of Lazarus (Jn chapter 11)

first thanks for the reply, but nope, I'm more concern with those women at the cross right now.

Matthew 27:56 "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
is this two different mary's?

now this, John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
now is this two different Mary's here or the same Mary.

no two sisters are name mary of the same Household. males can be of the same name, as Jr, or the third and so on. but Females? no.
because, Matthew 27:56 states, "Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.
the OTHER Mary is missing. or is this the SAME Mary?

PICJAG.

 

[Renniks]

She was not just a surrogate mother that God borrowed from Joseph, used for his purposes and then handed back. By becoming pregnant by the Holy Spirit she became the spouse of the Holy Spirit - a covenant relationship.

That sounds a little creepy. The Spirit didn't have a sexual relationship with Mary.