JOHN

[stunnedbygrace]

I have this thing called brain fog, I'm sure you have noticed
So, this light is God himself...as, He IS light after all. 1 John 1:5

I was more referring to the gospel of John:

In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He existed in the beginning with God.
3 God created everything through him,
and nothing was created except through him.
4 The Word gave life to everything that was created,
and his life brought light to everyone.
5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness can never extinguish it.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I was more referring to the gospel of John:

In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He existed in the beginning with God.
3 God created everything through him,
and nothing was created except through him.
4 The Word gave life to everything that was created,
and his life brought light to everyone.
5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness can never extinguish it.

I've only just caught up with this thread.
My first point is that we don't really know what language John used to write his gospel. He was Galilean, so his first language would have been Aramaic. I am not sure whether he knew Greek, but I get a clue from the crowd on the day of Pentecost when they were amazed at the languages they heard, and said, "Aren't these uneducated Galileans?" This would lead me to believe that John, being a Galilean fisherman, might not have learned Greek at the time he wrote his gospel, but might have learned it later on.

This could mean that the original inspired document, which is now lost, might have been written in Aramaic and later translated into Greek so it could be read by all the churches. Seeing that the very earliest Greek manuscript is 4th Century and came from Alexandria, trying to decipher the accurate meaning might be difficult because of the different shades of meaning that is characteristic of the Greek language.

The Scripture said that God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all (1 John 1:5). Because we know that Jesus is the revelation of God to mankind, we can conclude that light=revelation, and the particular light equals revelation from God of God the Son being Jesus as a God/man.

Therefore it could be argued that "darkness" is existence without that revelation that comes from God concerning Jesus Christ. Because the natural man cannot comprehend the gospel of Christ without revelation from the Holy Spirit (ie: cannot discern spiritual things without having the Holy Spirit) then that could explain, "The darkness comprehends it not".

Also the Scripture says that they who dwell in darkness have seen a great light (Isaiah 9:2) which is a Messianic prophecy which was fulfilled in the coming of Jesus to earth as the God/man. This explains that people who are living without receiving revelation from God concerning Jesus, are dwelling in darkness.

Jesus said that there will be people cast into outer darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:11-12). This speaks of total separation from Christ, which equals hell for the condemned who reject the gospel of Christ.

So, we see, that Scripture interprets Scripture. It is risky to take one verse and try to interpret it by itself without referring to other passages of Scripture that refer to darkness. But when we see other places where darkness is referred to, we get a clearer picture of how the Scripture defines it.

I trust that this is helpful.

 

[Enoch111]

Um...once again, do you have any verses that explain that this is "cosmic" light spoken of at first?

You have a very serious problem if you are unable to interpret what is clearly stated. What you want is for Scripture to call it "cosmic light". But neither does Genesis 1 say "sun" or "moon". So are going to question the fact that on the fourth day God created the sun and the moon?

This one passage (Gen 1:3,4) should suffice (and it was already posted), but I am going to break it down for you even further.

1. And God said: God is UNCREATED Light, because He Himself is Light and the source of all Light. And Jesus is Light.

2. Let there be light: What else can this be other than CREATED physical light, which only came into existence in the universe when God spoke it into existence. The universe is the cosmos and this light was in the cosmos. Hence it is cosmic light, not coming from either the sun or the moon.

3. and there was light: God spoke cosmic light into existence and it was so, because God spoke creation into existence out of nothing. And the eternal Word of God (Jesus) was the one speaking, since the Godhead designated Him to be the Creator (John 1:1-3).

4. And God saw the light, that it was good: This light was good because (1) it was directly from God who is good, and (2) it was beneficial to His creation.

5. and God divided the light from the darkness: For three days and three nights this light divided day from night. Thus we have "evening and morning" on each of the first three days. These were literal 24 hour days with 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness. The darkness was NOT evil but good, since everything during creation was deemed to be "very good" (perfect).

 

[Dcopymope]

You have a very serious problem if you are unable to interpret what is clearly stated. What you want is for Scripture to call it "cosmic light". But neither does Genesis 1 say "sun" or "moon". So are going to question the fact that on the fourth day God created the sun and the moon?

This one passage (Gen 1:3,4) should suffice (and it was already posted), but I am going to break it down for you even further.

1. And God said: God is UNCREATED Light, because He Himself is Light and the source of all Light. And Jesus is Light.

2. Let there be light: What else can this be other than CREATED physical light, which only came into existence in the universe when God spoke it into existence. The universe is the cosmos and this light was in the cosmos. Hence it is cosmic light, not coming from either the sun or the moon.

3. and there was light: God spoke cosmic light into existence and it was so, because God spoke creation into existence out of nothing. And the eternal Word of God (Jesus) was the one speaking, since the Godhead designated Him to be the Creator (John 1:1-3).

4. And God saw the light, that it was good: This light was good because (1) it was directly from God who is good, and (2) it was beneficial to His creation.

5. and God divided the light from the darkness: For three days and three nights this light divided day from night. Thus we have "evening and morning" on each of the first three days. These were literal 24 hour days with 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness. The darkness was NOT evil but good, since everything during creation was deemed to be "very good" (perfect).

The cosmic light bit is the only thing I don't agree with. I don't see why it has to be cosmic light. When it says "God created the heavens and earth", I take the word "heavens" to include the sun, moon, and stars, like the word "heaven" usually does throughout the Bible.

(Joel 3:15-16) "The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. {16} The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel."

(Ezekiel 32:7-8) "And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. {8} All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD."

It was already all there from day one just like the earth was, except earth was without form and void. It had to be decorated to be habitable. I believe this is why the term "let there be" is used instead of "God created" from there on in, because the narrative Moses gives assumes that it was already there to begin with. The light was only allowed to shine on earth on the fourth day, by placing the light in the "firmament".

(Genesis 1:14-19) "¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: {15} And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. {16} And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. {17} And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, {18} And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. {19} And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

 

[Paul Christensen]

You have a very serious problem if you are unable to interpret what is clearly stated. What you want is for Scripture to call it "cosmic light". But neither does Genesis 1 say "sun" or "moon". So are going to question the fact that on the fourth day God created the sun and the moon?

This one passage (Gen 1:3,4) should suffice (and it was already posted), but I am going to break it down for you even further.

1. And God said: God is UNCREATED Light, because He Himself is Light and the source of all Light. And Jesus is Light.

2. Let there be light: What else can this be other than CREATED physical light, which only came into existence in the universe when God spoke it into existence. The universe is the cosmos and this light was in the cosmos. Hence it is cosmic light, not coming from either the sun or the moon.

3. and there was light: God spoke cosmic light into existence and it was so, because God spoke creation into existence out of nothing. And the eternal Word of God (Jesus) was the one speaking, since the Godhead designated Him to be the Creator (John 1:1-3).

4. And God saw the light, that it was good: This light was good because (1) it was directly from God who is good, and (2) it was beneficial to His creation.

5. and God divided the light from the darkness: For three days and three nights this light divided day from night. Thus we have "evening and morning" on each of the first three days. These were literal 24 hour days with 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness. The darkness was NOT evil but good, since everything during creation was deemed to be "very good" (perfect).

This links with the description of light in heaven when it says that there won't be a need for a sun to light the new city, because the glory of the Lord will provide all the light we need. (Revelations 21:23)

 

[Enoch111]

When it says "God created the heavens and earth", I take the word "heavens" to include the sun, moon, and stars, like the word "heaven" usually does throughout the Bible.

That is just an introductory statement. And Moses wrote only what the Holy Spirit gave him, since he was not even there.

The details are provided below that systematically. And for the first three day there was neither sun nor moon.

God need not have said "Let there be light" on day one, since the glory of God outshines every created light. But the whole point was to establish the day/night cycle from the very first day, even though the sun and moon were absent.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. (v 5)

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.(v 8)

And the evening and the morning were the third day. (v 13)

 

[Dcopymope]

This links with the description of light in heaven when it says that there won't be a need for a sun to light the new city, because the glory of the Lord will provide all the light we need. (Revelations 21:23)

In context, none of the scriptures say there won't be a sun and moon, only that the city will not need it, because God will be its source of light.

 

[Paul Christensen]

That is just an introductory statement. And Moses wrote only what the Holy Spirit gave him, since he was not even there.

The details are provided below that systematically. And for the first three day there was neither sun nor moon.

God need not have said "Let there be light" on day one, since the glory of God outshines every created light. But the whole point was to establish the day/night cycle from the very first day, even though the sun and moon were absent.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. (v 5)

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.(v 8)

And the evening and the morning were the third day. (v 13)

It's great that we're on the same page about some things!

 

[Paul Christensen]

In context, none of the scriptures say there won't be a sun and moon, only that the city will not need it, because God will be its source of light.

A fine point...very, very slender.

 

[Dcopymope]

That is just an introductory statement. And Moses wrote only what the Holy Spirit gave him, since he was not even there.

The details are provided below that systematically. And for the first three day there was neither sun nor moon.

God need not have said "Let there be light" on day one, since the glory of God outshines every created light. But the whole point was to establish the day/night cycle from the very first day, even though the sun and moon were absent.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. (v 5)

And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.(v 8)

And the evening and the morning were the third day. (v 13)

What does the light of God have to do with it? You clearly stated that the light being referred to has nothing to do with his glory, because Gods light is uncreated light. You said it was cosmic light, when he could have easily just created the sun and moon and separated its light from shining on earth. This is the occam's razor explanation of the event, nothing added to the narrative, nothing taken away.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Why does it not say: and God said, let there be darkness? It just says, "and darkness was..."

You can't have "darkness was" before light was, because darkness is absence of light.

Does anyone ever say, could you turn on the darkness, please? No. They say, could you turn on the light, please?

Now, someone could say, could you turn OFF the light? But they do not say, could you turn ON the darkness?

Darkness does not rule over light. Darkness does not get rid of light .
Light rules over darkness.
Light gets rid of darkness.

If the darkness "was," as it states, and light had to be created, then darkness existed before light. But Jesus is, WAS, and is to come.

Darkness is a negative creation. And the Light existed/was before darkness was.

I do not think that first "let there be" is accurate if we think of it as creation, since light was before darkness was. I think it has to be seen as, let the light shine in this darkness.

The only way it can say "darkness was..." is if, sometime prior, light was removed to create it. And if light was withheld/removed to negatively create it, then in order to get rid of it, that same light would have to shine in it.

 

[Dcopymope]

Why does it not say: and God said, let there be darkness? It just says, "and darkness was..."

You can't have "darkness was" before light, because darkness is absence of light.

Does anyone ever say, could you turn on the darkness, please? No. They say, could you turn on the light, please?

Now, someone could say, could you turn OFF the light? But they do not say, could you turn ON the darkness?

Darkness does not rule over light. Darkness does not get rid of light .
Light rules over darkness.
Light gets rid of darkness.

If the darkness "was," as it states, and light had to be created, then darkness existed before light. But Jesus is, WAS, and is to come.

Darkness is a negative creation. And the Light existed/was before darkness was.

Jesus may be the light, doesn't mean that the light referred to in the creation account is Jesus. The light is described as a creation, and Jesus is not a created being.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Why does it not say: and God said, let there be darkness? It just says, "and darkness was..."

You can't have "darkness was" before light, because darkness is absence of light.

Does anyone ever say, could you turn on the darkness, please? No. They say, could you turn on the light, please?

Now, someone could say, could you turn OFF the light? But they do not say, could you turn ON the darkness?

Darkness does not rule over light. Darkness does not get rid of light .
Light rules over darkness.
Light gets rid of darkness.

If the darkness "was," as it states, and light had to be created, then darkness existed before light. But Jesus is, WAS, and is to come.

Darkness is a negative creation. And the Light existed/was before darkness was.

So, it seems that the darkness referred to in John 1 is described of those people who are separated from God by sin. Therefore it is not a direct link to Genesis 1 which talks of the darkness which is the absence of light.

I think it is too much of a stretch to equate the darkness of eternity prior to the creation, before God lit it all up by saying, "Let there be light." and the darkness of the absence of revelation that prevents the natural man to discern the things of the Spirit.

It is very true that the person who does not have the Holy Spirit is living in darkness. This is because he cannot see the light of the glory of God in the gospel of Jesus Christ. John is actually saying that Jesus came to the Jews, but they did not comprehend who He really was - the Messiah - and so they rejected Him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So, it seems that the darkness referred to in John 1 is described of those people who are separated from God by sin. Therefore it is not a direct link to Genesis 1 which talks of the darkness which is the absence of light.

In the beginning God created where He was and where He was not. Is this not a separation? How do you know this was not caused by the sin of the angels, separated from God, by sin? Cast from His presence, cast down to the ground, to earth.

 

[Paul Christensen]

In the beginning God created where He was and where He was not. Is this not a separation? How do you know this was not caused by the sin of the angels, separated from God, by sin? Cast from His presence, cast down to the ground, to earth.

I know it wasn't because the Scripture doesn't say anything about it. And if it ain't in the Bible, then it ain't true.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh my gosh, you have put me in a fit of laughter!!

You have proved that the space walk was definitely a hoax! It never happened because it "ain't in the bible!" It ain't true!
Thank you for settling that once and for all.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I have to get to bed Paul, but it was very nice talking with you.

 

[Waiting on him]

This links with the description of light in heaven when it says that there won't be a need for a sun to light the new city, because the glory of the Lord will provide all the light we need. (Revelations 21:23)

I don’t know, doesn’t imply there is no sun, just says no need?

 

[Waiting on him]

Revelation 7:15 KJV
[15] Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

This implies a solar/lunar cycle.
And this>>
Revelation 20:10 KJV
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Tecarta Bible
Tecarta Bible

 

[Taken]

I was more referring to the gospel of John:

In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 He existed in the beginning with God.
3 God created everything through him,
and nothing was created except through him.
4 The Word gave life to everything that was created,
and his life brought light to everyone.
5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness can never extinguish it.

I believe God IS without Beginning of Ending.
From Genesis forward we begin learning ABOUT God.

Gen 1 gives us an Introduction About God.
Gen 2 gives us more specific ABOUT a KIND of thing God called a MAN.

God~ we learn, IS Light, IS the SOURCE, that "generates LIGHT", (or IF you will,) CAUSES, other things, created Things, to flourish, when the CREATED "Things" receive Light from God.

We also learn:
God, has 'parts', IN His own 'make-up', and so does,"everything", God has "CREATED AND MADE".

"Parts" of God, come forth out from God, but does not EMPTY God of those Parts.
Same for mankind.

"Parts" of God, are called distinguishing NAMES, and TITLES, to reveal which part of God is doing What.
Same for mankind.

God IS Invisible to natural mankind's EYES.
Gods Voice IS NOT audible to natural mankind's EARS.
YET...God has Established "A Way", to communicate...with His CREATED Mankind of thing; that a Mankind of thing CAN Hear, See, and Oberve the Effects of His Power, (LIGHT/SPIRIT)
Same for man.

Gods, "parts"...
WILL...His desire/ideas/plan/thoughts
POWER...His Spirit/Holiness/ Absolution
WORD...His Truth/Communication/

WORD----Lord
WILL------God
POWER----Almighty

Mankind...the same.
WILL- desire, want, need, ideas, plans, thoughts;
(* in the MINDS/logic,
(*in the souls/feelings,emotions,senses,
(* in the natural spirits natural Truth in the Heart.

POWER- muscle, status authority power, mechanical generation of Light.
Be observed Working, Can observe Accomplished works.

WORD - keep hidden in the mind, soul, spirit; reveal by audible speech, hand signals, facial or body gestures, write.
Can reveal, word, "Unseen" coming forth, behind a curtain, door, yelling across a valley, telegraph, phone, tv, radio, computer, etc.
Can ELECT to not reveal his thoughts.

Mankind...iS LIKE God in many ways...
Has NO control over his being existing.
Has a Name.
Can Name or TITLE "parts" of himself, (or those parts be Named, by another)
Can send forth "parts" of himself, while keeping those parts "in" himself.
Can "spit" out, remove "parts" forever.

Throughout the Theme, of Learing ABOUT God, we learn, WHAT "parts" of God; does WHAT, WHEN, HOW, WHY, and WHAT those "PARTS" are Called at a particular Given/Revealed Time...and TO WHOM it WAS/IS revealed.

The Highlight IS simple:
Gods WILL, WORD, POWER...is "ALWAYS"...
IN HARMONY /Agreement for Right & Good..
Holy.

Mankind's WILL, WORD, POWER...is always IN Conflict...(logic, feelings, spirit) constant disagreement within the man, and also comes forth out from a man, and conflict Between men).

God gives mankind...
1) A WAY...To: resolve the Conflict: within the man...Become in Harmony, within himself... AND ...Have the Same Harmony..."AS and WITH God".

2) ^ THAT ^....resolves an individual's Harmonious outcome, between the individual mankind of Thing AND God...
But it does NOT make the HARMONY BETWEEN man and man become Harmonious.

3) Between man and man, God has revealed PRECEPTS...IOW...HOW TO: handle Discourse, Between man and man for the most favorable Outcome.
(Man may or may not learn, know, always consider Gods PRECEPTS between men.)

John 1: references the Beginning...IMO, the Beginning IS what IS revealed TO mankind, at ANY given Point in Times...Knowledge Or the Understanding of the Knowledge IS Revealed.

Men have a Beginning...but NOT All at the SAME point in time...
What is a Beginning for one man, is Not the Same for All men...nor IS their Knowledge or Understanding of the Knowledge.

Gen 1 gives us a Beginning of Knowledge of His Creation.
John 1 gives us a Beginning of Knowledge and Understanding of His Word...
(*) IS Eternal without A Beginning.
(*) IS God
(*) Always WITH and IN God
(*) IS being SENT TO Earth
(*) IS in a Fashion (Look/Image), mankind can recognize The familiar known Image (of a mankind of thing) See and Hear this Thing.
(*) Will be Rejected BY Many men...Because this Thing IS so commonly recognized (and Because this thing/man; is initially, so common, without Obvious Power, Status, Authority, Wealth...and later found to BE, able to Be Whipped down, Nailed to a cross, Killed, AT the Hands of Earthly Men.

Our Example;
Revealed as a common, nobody, from no place special, adult poor, homeless, wandering man, speaking great things, doing great miracles, calling out Temple Clerics...captured the Hearts, and souls, and minds OF Some, by their FREEWILL, (then)...
AND THEN and NOW, Many BY their FREEWILL, Reject Him.

^ That IS mankind's Division...that The Word of God came TO Accomplish, and DID So, and the Division continues...with the Beginning of every individual's natural birth...from those individuals Who freely Choose...to be "Made" Whole, body, soul, spirit " Perfected IN the Lord God and IN HARMONY, with the Lord God Almighty.

Luke 12:
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Matt 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me;

Gods LIGHT Is His POWER, SPIRIT, HIS Glory.
* God GIVES "HIS Glory", TO NO ONE.
* HIS Glory can ONLY be received BY something "other than Himself"...
BY "REFLECTION".

The Sun and the Moon are early parallels of LIGHT and REFLECTION.
The Moon has NO LIGHT, in it or of it. It is complete Darkness., yet called the lesser light.

The MOON only "has" the appearance of Light... WHEN, the Light of the Sun shines on the Moon, and causes Light to "Reflect" off the Moon...and that is our First foreshadow Of knowledge, later revealed...earthly men can Only be illuminated, enLIGHTened, BY the REFLECTION of the True Light, which IS the WORD (named Jesus), Called the Son of God, AND Christ, (the Power, Wisdom, Seed of God).

As the moon, is not seen with light, sometimes with a bit of light but fading away and Fullness of light...is a parallel to mankind.

Isa 42:
[8] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

His LIGHT has a TITLE: CHRIST.
1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Gal 3:
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And to note..."Once" knowledge from God, IS revealed...it matter not, the timeframe of an individual's "Beginning", the knowledge stands True. The knowledge may or may not apply to every "individual", yet it stands True...as because the knowledge will always apply to some.

And to note:
Idea/ plan/ Creation itself...IS EFFECTED Aka "MADE" BY Gods WORD and POWER.

The Heavenly Father is called the CREATOR...
The Maker, God said to call His SON.
Which is to say; a CREATED Thing, can DO nothing of itself...UNTIL the "MAKER" Causes the CREATED thing...to be MADE...activated (for lack of a better word).

John 1:

1. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
2. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Glory to God,
Taken