The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[BreadOfLife]

The written Scriptures are God's sole communication with mankind. Anything written outside of the Bible is the uninspired authorship of man. Any doctrine that is contrary to the clear teaching of the Bible is a fraud and a deception. Paul said that even if an angel came and preached a different gospel than the one he preached, let him be cursed. If the Roman Catholic Church is preaching doctrines purporting to be the gospel of Christ and they are not consistent with the gospel that Paul preached then it is presenting a fraudulent gospel.

Yes I agree...

This is absolute UNBIBILCAL hogwash that neither of you can prove from Scripture itself.

IF Scripture is your "SOLE Authority" - then show me the verse that makes this clam - because MY Bible puts Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture . . .

2 Thess. 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

YOUR turn . . .

 

[Paul Christensen]

A believer repents before he is saved,

repenting of being a sinner is just one aspect of that repentance, the law shows we are guilty, when we repent, we admit that guilt

but there are other aspects of true saving repentance.

As for James, He is speaking to hearers of the word. Not doers. He asked a question, if one CLAIMS to have faith yet is not a doer of the word (has no works), can that faith save them?

how can a dead faith, mere belief only person who has never repented have ever been saved?

James answer, paul’s answer, even johns answer is no. They have never been saved,

saying one has never been saved is hugely different than saying a person was saved , was made alive, was sealed with the spirit, and lost their way and lost their salvation, are not dead, and have lost the seal.
All things the Roman church teaches,

Only a converted believer can repent, therefore repentance, although essential, follows conversion to Christ. An unconverted person cannot repent because it is not in his sinful heart to be able to do it. Until his heart is transformed by the conversion work of the Holy Spirit, he is in opposition and rebellion against God. Once the person is converted, his heart is renewed and transformed, and is then able to repent.

 

[Paul Christensen]

No - all YOU have to do is prove it.
YOU are the one making these asinine claims - so YOU are on the hook here.

CAN you do that??

I don't have to prove anything to you. All I have to do is read church history and have reasonable doubts how that Catholic priests can be pedophiles, adulterers, fornicators, and fathers of illegitimate children can represent Christ, while they hear others confess their sins while keeping their own secret until they are found out, and fraudulently absolving others of their sins while they retain their own.

How can you account for the established fact that there are more male and female prostitutes in the Vatican than in any other red light district anywhere else in the world? Why is that if the Vatican is supposed to be the pure and righteous guardian of the Truth?

 

[user]

This is absolute UNBIBILCAL hogwash that neither of you can prove from Scripture itself.

IF Scripture is your "SOLE Authority" - then show me the verse that makes this clam - because MY Bible puts Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture . . .

2 Thess. 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

YOUR turn . . .

Again you are a deceiver ... take another look at post #2502

Do try and keep up.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Again you are a deceiver ... take another look at post #2502

Do try and keep up.

In actual fact, he puts Catholic tradition over and above the Bible, not as par with it - because the bulk of traditional Catholic doctrine contradicts the Bible!

 

[RogerDC]

Actually, I did answer the question. You just didn't like the answer.
In response to this last bit of folly you posted try reading 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."
John 16:13

Sorry, but quoting a Scripture out-of-context doesn't answer my question. Who - as in, which Church or individual - has the infallible interpretation of Scripture? Do you? If not you, then who?
Non-Catholic churches and individuals come up with endless and differing interpretations of Scripture - which version is the infallible truth? Please tell me.

 

[RogerDC]

I do. Repentance is the general change of direction that comes as the true conversion to Christ that the believer of the gospel seeks God for after accepting the grace and mercy of God through faith alone in Christ's finished work on the cross.
Repentance is not confession of sins. Only the Holy Spirit can develop sanctification in us. The transformation that comes with true conversion is not automatic on "accepting Christ". It must be sought for with all one's heart. Anyone can shed tears at the front of a church and make resolutions to be a better person, attend church, read the Bible and live a moral life, but if their heart is unchanged, they are still lost. Only the Holy Spirit can convert a person to Christ and the transformation must be diligently sought for. If we are to come to God, we must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Just putting on a Christian badge is not genuine conversion.

Repentance is more than just a change of heart - it also involves changing one's BEHAVIOUR, ie, turning away from sin and keeping God's commandments - otherwise known as "works". Read Romans 6 and read James 2:24 - "a man is justified by WORKS and not by faith alone".

True conversion results in an intense love for God and Christ, and a deep hatred for sin.

True conversion requires love for God and expressing that love by repenting and keeping God's commandments (aka "works"):

Jesus said,
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15)

”For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments” (1John 5:3)

Your false doctrine of repentance without works contradicts Scripture and is a sure-fire recipe for dead faith - "faith without works is dead" (James 2:26).

 

[Paul Christensen]

Repentance is more than just a change of heart - it also involves changing one's BEHAVIOUR, ie, turning away from sin and keeping God's commandments - otherwise known as "works". Read Romans 6 and read James 2:24 - "a man is justified by WORKS and not by faith alone".
True conversion requires love for God and expressing that love by repenting and keeping God's commandments (aka "works"):

Jesus said,
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15)

”For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments” (1John 5:3)

Your false doctrine of repentance without works contradicts Scripture and is a sure-fire recipe for dead faith - "faith without works is dead" (James 2:26).

Anyone can change their behaviour to please the onlookers. It is amazing how people change their behaviour when encountering a police officer! There are many church people who are "angels" at church and devils at home.

"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin" (Romans 3:20).

"know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified" (Galatians 2:16).

"For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law" (Romans 3:28).

So you obviously don't believe the clear statements of Scripture, and would rather believe the fraudulent doctrine of faith plus works of the Roman Catholic church that overrules the clear text of the Bible. If you are depending on your good works to be justified by God than what the Bible clearly teaches, then don't depend on having any assurance of Salvation because you might be trying to go over the wall of fraudulent religion instead of through the narrow gate of Christ.

I would rather depend on the clear, reliable text of the Bible than some false doctrine dreamed up by some adulterous fornicating pope during the Middle Ages.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Only a converted believer can repent, therefore repentance, although essential, follows conversion to Christ. An unconverted person cannot repent because it is not in his sinful heart to be able to do it. Until his heart is transformed by the conversion work of the Holy Spirit, he is in opposition and rebellion against God. Once the person is converted, his heart is renewed and transformed, and is then able to repent.

I see it differently, to me, You have it backwards,
Only a repentant heart can be converted.

neither you or I or anyone else would ever come to Christ in faith, unless first led to true repentance.because until we repent, we will never trust God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is absolute UNBIBILCAL hogwash that neither of you can prove from Scripture itself.

IF Scripture is your "SOLE Authority" - then show me the verse that makes this clam - because MY Bible puts Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture . . .

2 Thess. 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

YOUR turn . . .

Here is the problem

when tradition and the word do not agree

the word always trumps tradition

the jews lived on tradition, and considered it equal with the word, for this reason, they rejected Christ.

again, your church is not the first go around at religion and using it to try to relate to God, thinking they were Gods people

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't have to prove anything to you. All I have to do is read church history and have reasonable doubts how that Catholic priests can be pedophiles, adulterers, fornicators, and fathers of illegitimate children can represent Christ, while they hear others confess their sins while keeping their own secret until they are found out, and fraudulently absolving others of their sins while they retain their own.
How can you account for the established fact that there are more male and female prostitutes in the Vatican than in any other red light district anywhere else in the world? Why is that if the Vatican is supposed to be the pure and righteous guardian of the Truth?

And why do you keep insisting on posting this asinine manure without ANY proof whatsoever??

As for priests being "pedophiles, adulterers and fornicators" - there has been a very small percentage that have done these things.
However, let's see how the Protestant ministers are dong . . .

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy


So, clean up the mess in your OWN back yard before you go around pointing fingers . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Again you are a deceiver ... take another look at post #2502
Do try and keep up.

Ummmmm, here is what I was responding to . . .

The written Scriptures are God's sole communication with mankind. Anything written outside of the Bible is the uninspired authorship of man. Any doctrine that is contrary to the clear teaching of the Bible is a fraud and a deception. Paul said that even if an angel came and preached a different gospel than the one he preached, let him be cursed. If the Roman Catholic Church is preaching doctrines purporting to be the gospel of Christ and they are not consistent with the gospel that Paul preached then it is presenting a fraudulent gospel.

Yes I agree...

As I stated before - this is UNBIBLICAL hogwash that neither of you can prove from Scripture itself.
The written Scriptures are NOT God's "sole communication" with mankind.

Apparently - you never read the Old Testament either because NOT everything that God told Moses and the Prophets was written down.
The only "deceiving" anybody here is YOU . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Here is the problem
when tradition and the word do not agree the word always trumps tradition
the jews lived on tradition, and considered it equal with the word, for this reason, they rejected Christ.

again, your church is not the first go around at religion and using it to try to relate to God, thinking they were Gods people

And when you can actually NAME one - you might have a case . . .

 

[Truther]

Who said the Pope translated the Bible?? Not me.

Maybe you should put your thinking cap on . . .

Your Bible is the word of the infallible Pope.
His decrees and doctrines trump your other Bible,... you know, the fallible one we are discussing?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your Bible is the word of the infallible Pope.
His decrees and doctrines trump your other Bible,... you know, the fallible one we are discussing?

Your ignorance never fails to amaze

Ummmmm, MY Bible is Scripture.
The Pope didn't write the Bible, Einstein.

 

[RogerDC]

If you are depending on your good works to be justified by God than what the Bible clearly teaches, then don't depend on having any assurance of Salvation because you might be trying to go over the wall of fraudulent religion instead of through the narrow gate of Christ.

Please explain what these verses mean:

"a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24);

"faith without works is dead" (James 2:26).

 

[RogerDC]

I don't have to prove anything to you. All I have to do is read church history and have reasonable doubts how that Catholic priests can be pedophiles, adulterers, fornicators, and fathers of illegitimate children can represent Christ, while they hear others confess their sins while keeping their own secret until they are found out, and fraudulently absolving others of their sins while they retain their own.

And all the good and holy priests count for nothing?

How can you account for the established fact that there are more male and female prostitutes in the Vatican than in any other red light district anywhere else in the world?

Hilarious. Are you really that gullible?

 

[RogerDC]

The Apostle John said that the anointing (the Holy Spirit) within us, whom Christ sent to represent Him will teach us everything we need to know. When did the Roman Catholic Church take over from the Holy Spirit?

Why did Paul consult the CHURCH to settle doctrinal matters (Acts 15:2-3) and to verify the correctness of his preaching (Galatians 2:2)?

 

[user]

IF Scripture is your "SOLE Authority" - then show me the verse that makes this clam - because MY Bible puts Sacred Tradition ON PAR with Scripture . . .

2 Thess. 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the TRADITIONS you were taught, either by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from us."

YOUR turn . . .

The word παραδοσις, which we render tradition, signifies any thing delivered in the way of teaching and here most obviously means the doctrines delivered by the apostle to the Thessalonians, whether in his preaching, private conversation, or by these epistles and particularly the first epistle. Whatever these traditions were, as to their matter, they were a revelation from God for they came by men who spake and acted under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and on this ground the passage can never with any propriety be brought to support the unapostolical and anti-apostolical traditions of the Roman Church, those being matters not taken from either Testament nor were spoken either by a prophet or an apostle.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The word παραδοσις, which we render tradition, signifies any thing delivered in the way of teaching and here most obviously means the doctrines delivered by the apostle to the Thessalonians, whether in his preaching, private conversation, or by these epistles and particularly the first epistle. Whatever these traditions were, as to their matter, they were a revelation from God for they came by men who spake and acted under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and on this ground the passage can never with any propriety be brought to support the unapostolical and anti-apostolical traditions of the Roman Church, those being matters not taken from either Testament nor were spoken either by a prophet or an apostle.

Ahhhh, so now you've contradicted yourself.

YOU stated the following:
"The written Scriptures are God's sole communication with mankind."

NOW, you made the statement above in RED.
Sooooooo, WHICH it is??