Renniks
Well-Known Member
You are delusional. But I understand. You were trained to embrace the delusion.No - I DID by showing you that there was NO mention of Mary's "other" children.
Checkmate . . .
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You are delusional. But I understand. You were trained to embrace the delusion.No - I DID by showing you that there was NO mention of Mary's "other" children.
Checkmate . . .
I think after 53 years closely studying God's Word and completing a three year Masters in Divinity I know a whole lot more of the Word than you think I do!Like I said - God doesn't deal in "coincidences". EVERYTHING has a purpose.
If YOU believe these are all "coincidences" - then YOU don't know God's Word . . .
Aren't there four persons in the Catholic trinity? The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Mary! (Just joking!).It amazes me how many Trinity deniers come here to argue with Catholics about the Trinity in a supposedly Christian discussion board.
Aren't there four persons in the Catholic trinity? The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Mary! (Just joking!).
One biblical theme sheds light on these questions and serves as a key for unlocking the mystery of Mary’s queenship: the Old Testament tradition of the “queen mother” in the Davidic kingdom.Mary might as well be part of this exclusive club since they are calling her the "queen of heaven", notwithstanding the total lack of evidence in scripture.
I gave plenty of evidence, you just refuse to see it.Mary might as well be part of this exclusive club since they are calling her the "queen of heaven", notwithstanding the total lack of evidence in scripture.
No - we can take this as YOU not understanding the difference between the Roles of the Trinity and Modalism (Sabellianism).
Virtually EVERY heresy is based on a misconception of the very nature of God - and yours is no different.
I've already shown you this verse in the Greek - and it indicates that He is HUMAN:
The literal translation is:
Heb. 2:17
Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, ...
ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι, ...
Verse 14 from the YOUR revered KJV -
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Checkmate . . .
Finally, Mary’s queenship can be seen in the great vision described in Revelation 12: “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery” (Rev. 12:1–2). Who is this newborn child? He is described as the messianic king exercising his dominion. In verse 5, the author of Revelation chose the messianic Psalm 2 to describe how this child will “rule all the nations with a rod of iron” (Rev. 12:5, Ps. 2:9). This royal son is taken up to heaven to sit on a throne (Rev. 12:5), and he ushers in the kingdom of God by defeating the devil: “Now the kingdom of our God has come, for the accuser has been throne down” (12:10). Certainly, this newborn child is the royal Messiah, King Jesus.
In this light it is clear who this woman is who gave birth to the messiah: It is Mary. Some people have interpreted this woman in Revelation 12 as merely a symbol either for the Old Testament people of Israel or for the New Testament Church and therefore have concluded that the woman cannot be an individual (i.e., Mary). However, this “either-or” proposition is foreign to the biblical worldview, in which individuals often symbolically represent collective groups. For instance, Adam represented all humanity (Rom. 5:19), and Jacob stood for all of Israel (Ps. 44:4). Given this biblical notion called “corporate personality,” the woman in Revelation 12 should be understood as both an individual (Mary) and a symbol for the people of God.
But for our purposes, once we see that this woman is Mary, the mother of Jesus, it is important to note how she is portrayed as queen in this passage. Her royal office is hinted at by the imagery of the sun, moon, and twelve stars, which recalls the Old Testament story of Joseph’s dream in which the sun, moon, and stars bow down before him, symbolizing his future authority (Gen. 37:9–11). Her queenship is made even clearer by the crown of twelve stars on her head. Just like the queen mother in Jeremiah 13:18, here Mary is wearing a crown, symbolizing her royal office in the kingdom of heaven. In sum, Revelation 12 portrays Mary as the new queen mother in the Kingdom of God, sharing in her son’s rule over the universe.
(Jeremiah 7:17-20) "¶ Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? {18} The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. {19} Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? {20} Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched."
(Jeremiah 44:15-19) "¶ Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying, {16} As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee. {17} But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. {18} But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. {19} And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?"
Equating a title given to a pagan goddess with Jesus' mother granted to her centuries later is an abuse of scripture, not to mention insanely stupid.The only times in scripture we ever hear of an actual "queen of heaven" is in reference to a false idol, provoking God to anger.
Foreshadow does not mean duplication. The pattern is fixed in the Old Testament, which you deny. The Kingship of Jesus without the queenship of Mary is stupid and absurd.Nothing is ever stated in the passages you cite of a "queen mother", or "queen of heaven" being part of the actual prophecies of the coming king Jesus who is to rule forever. You clearly came to your conclusions by inductive reasoning. A few verses makes statements of a kings mother gaining the title of a "queen", therefore to you it must be true that Mary is also the "queen of heaven", despite no prophecies stating this to be the case for the kingdom to come, old or new testament. This line of reasoning doesn't even come close to holding up to scrutiny. This is like me claiming that because a few verses mention angelic beings having wings, all angels therefore must have wings, which is of course never stated to be the case.
I didn't cite a few verses, I cited over 2 dozen that you claim aren't there. You have a King with no queen, which does violence to Judaism. Christianity is rooted in Judaism, you are simply in denial of its monarchy. Clearly you don't understand foreshadow, and deny the Davidic Kingdom was a monarchy with all its queens. "Inductive reasoning" is just an excuse.And I was fully expecting you to cite Revelation 12 as "evidence" of Mary's position as a "queen". This is exactly why I made the thread below addressing Revelation 12 in detail, proving without a shadow of a doubt that the "woman" in revelation 12 makes no reference whatsoever to Mary birthing Jesus but to Israel as a nation as his birthplace. The similarities between Mary and the "woman" in Rev 12 end with the chapter speaking of the woman birthing the "man child". After that, you would have to do some deadly serious mental gymnastics to conclude that the woman of Rev 12 refers to Mary as the "queen of heaven".
Link: The Woman in Revelation 12
The only times in scripture we ever hear of an actual "queen of heaven" is in reference to a false idol, provoking God to anger. Nothing is ever stated in the passages you cite of a "queen mother", or "queen of heaven" being part of the actual prophecies of the coming king Jesus who is to rule forever.
Agree.
Luke 8
[20] And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
Additionally out of the mouth of Jesus;
Luke 8:
[21] And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
So is all of Jesus' "mothers" are queens of Heaven...lol
And ... aren't queens typically Female?
Matt 22:
[30] For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
ARE as the Angels?
And angel's of God are always portrayed AS:
Female Queen mothers of God? lol
And there is that itty bitty conundrum...
God has no mother or father...
Glory to God,
Taken
Jesus is God, the conundrum is yours.And there is that itty bitty conundrum...
God has no mother or father...
Glory to God,
Taken
The Kingship of Jesus without the queenship of Mary is stupid and absurd.
Jesus is God, the conundrum is yours.