Virgin Mary Had Other Children After Jesus

[Renniks]

No - I DID by showing you that there was NO mention of Mary's "other" children.

Checkmate . . .

You are delusional. But I understand. You were trained to embrace the delusion.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Like I said - God doesn't deal in "coincidences". EVERYTHING has a purpose.

If YOU believe these are all "coincidences" - then YOU don't know God's Word . . .

I think after 53 years closely studying God's Word and completing a three year Masters in Divinity I know a whole lot more of the Word than you think I do!

 

[Illuminator]

It amazes me how many Trinity deniers come here to argue with Catholics about the Trinity in a supposedly Christian discussion board.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It amazes me how many Trinity deniers come here to argue with Catholics about the Trinity in a supposedly Christian discussion board.

Aren't there four persons in the Catholic trinity? The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Mary! (Just joking!).

 

[Dcopymope]

Aren't there four persons in the Catholic trinity? The Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and Mary! (Just joking!).

Mary might as well be part of this exclusive club since they are calling her the "queen of heaven", notwithstanding the total lack of evidence in scripture.

 

[Illuminator]

Mary might as well be part of this exclusive club since they are calling her the "queen of heaven", notwithstanding the total lack of evidence in scripture.

One biblical theme sheds light on these questions and serves as a key for unlocking the mystery of Mary’s queenship: the Old Testament tradition of the “queen mother” in the Davidic kingdom.

In the monarchy of King David, as well as in other ancient kingdoms of the Near East, the mother of the ruling king held an important office in the royal court and played a key part in the process of dynastic succession. In fact, the king’s mother ruled as queen, not his wife.

The great pre-eminence of the king’s mother may seem odd from our modern Western perspective, in which we think of a queen as being the wife of a king. However, recall that most ancient Near-Eastern kings practiced polygamy. King Solomon had seven hundred wives (1 Kgs. 11:3)—imagine the chaos in the royal court if all seven hundred were awarded the queenship! But since each king had only one mother, one can see the practical wisdom in bestowing the queenship upon her.

A number of Old Testament passages reflect the important role of the queen mother in the Davidic kingdom. For example, almost every time the narrative of 1 and 2 Kings introduces a new monarch in Judah, it mentions the king’s mother as well, showing the mother’s intimate involvement in her royal son’s reign. Similarly, the queen mother is listed among the members of the royal court whom king Jehoiachin surrendered to the king of Babylon in 2 Kings 24:12.

Her royal office is also described by the prophet Jeremiah, who tells how the queen mother possessed a throne and a crown, symbolic of her position of authority in the kingdom: “Say to the king and the queen mother: ‘Take a lowly seat, for your beautiful crown has come down from your head. . . . Lift up your eyes and see those who come from the north. Where is the flock that was given you, your beautiful flock?’” (Jer. 13:18, 20). It is significant that God directed this oracle about the upcoming fall of Judah to both the king and his mother. Addressing both king and queen mother, Jeremiah portrays her as sharing in her son’s rule over the kingdom.

Probably the clearest example of the queen mother’s role is that of Bathsheba, wife of David and mother of Solomon. Scholars have noted the excellence of Bathsheba’s position in the kingdom once she became queen mother during Solomon’s rule. Compare the humble attitude of Bathsheba as spouse of King David (1 Kgs. 1:16–17, 31) with her majestic dignity as mother of the next king, Solomon (1 Kgs. 2:19–20). As spouse of the king, Bathsheba bows with her face to the ground and does obeisance to her husband, David, upon entering his royal chamber. In striking contrast, after her son Solomon assumed the throne and she became queen mother, Bathsheba receives a glorious reception upon meeting with her royal son:

“So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right. Then she said, ‘I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.’ And the king said to her, ‘Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you’” (1 Kgs. 2:19–20).

This account reveals the sovereign prerogatives of the queen mother. Note how the king rises and bows as she enters. Bathsheba’s seat at the king’s right hand has the greatest significance. In the Bible, the right hand is the place of ultimate honor. This is seen in particular in the messianic Psalm 110 (“Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool”). In fact, many New Testament passages refer to the right-hand imagery of Psalm 110 to show Christ’s divinity and his reign with the Father over the whole universe (e.g., Hebrews 1:13). Thus, the queen mother sitting at the king’s right hand symbolizes her sharing in the king’s royal authority and illustrates how she holds the most important position in the kingdom, second only to the king.

This passage regarding Bathsheba also shows how the queen mother served as an advocate for the people, carrying petitions to the king. In 1 Kings 2:17, Adonijah asks Bathsheba to take a petition for him to King Solomon. He says to her: “Pray ask King Solomon—he will not refuse you—to give me Abishag the Shunammite as my wife” (1 Kgs. 2:17). It is clear that Adonijah recognizes the queen mother’s position of influence over the king, so he confidently turns to Bathsheba as an intercessor for his request.

A few Old Testament prophecies incorporate the queen mother tradition when telling of the future Messiah. One example is Isaiah 7:14, which originated during a time of dynastic crisis in Judah when Syria and Israel were threatening Jerusalem and plotting to overthrow King Ahaz. God offers Ahaz a sign that the kingdom will continue: “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Emmanuel” (Isa. 7:13–14).

On one level, this passage points to the next king (Hezekiah) as a pledge that the Davidic dynasty will continue despite the threats of invading armies. At the same time, the royal son who is to be named “Emmanuel” points to the future messianic king (cf., Isa. 9:6–7, 11:1–2). This is why the New Testament says Jesus fulfills this prophecy from Isaiah (Matt. 1:23).

For our purposes we should note how this prophecy links the mother to her royal son. Since the oracle is addressed specifically to the Davidic household and concerns the continuation of the dynasty, the young woman bearing forth the royal son would be understood as a queen mother. This has implications for our understanding of Mary. Since the mother of the king always ruled as queen mother, we should expect to find the mother of the messianic king playing the role of the true queen mother in the everlasting Kingdom of God.

With this Old Testament background, we can now more clearly see how the New Testament portrays Mary in light of the queen mother tradition.

continued...

 

[Illuminator]

The Gospel of Matthew has often been called the “Gospel of the Kingdom.” Matthew emphasizes that Jesus is “the Son of David,” who is the true King of the Jews establishing the “Kingdom of Heaven.” With all this kingly imagery, it should not be surprising to find queen mother themes as well.

Right away, Matthew shows explicitly how the infant Jesus is the “Emmanuel” child as prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 (Matt. 1:23). As we saw above, this prophecy links the royal messianic child with his queen mother. Further, Matthew singles out the intimate relationship between the mother and her royal son by using the phrase “the child and his mother” five times in the first two chapters, recalling the close association between queen mother and royal son as described in the Books of Kings. Just as the queen mother was constantly mentioned alongside the Judean kings in 1 and 2 Kings, so Mary is frequently mentioned alongside her royal son, Jesus, in Matthew’s infancy narrative (Matt. 1:18; 2:11, 13, 14, 20, 21).

We find Mary portrayed against the background of Davidic kingdom motifs in Luke’s Gospel as well, especially in his accounts of the Annunciation and Visitation. First, the angel Gabriel is said to appear to a virgin betrothed to a man “of the house of David” (1:27). Then the angel tells Mary, “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there will be no end” (Luke 1:31–33).

Hear the strong Davidic overtones describing Mary and her royal son: a woman from the house of David giving birth to a son who will be the new king whose reign will never end. With echoes from the queen mother tradition of the Davidic kingdom and the mother-son prophecy of Isaiah 7:14, we can conclude that Mary is being given the vocation of queen mother.

Mary’s royal office is made even more explicit in Luke’s account of the Visitation. Elizabeth greets Mary with the title “the mother of my Lord” (Luke 1:43). This title is charged with great queenly significance. In the royal court language of the ancient Near East, the title “Mother of my Lord” was used to address the queen mother of the reigning king (who himself was addressed as “my Lord”; cf., 2 Sam. 24:21). Thus with this title Elizabeth is recognizing the great dignity of Mary’s role as the royal mother of the king, Jesus.

Finally, Mary’s queenship can be seen in the great vision described in Revelation 12: “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery” (Rev. 12:1–2). Who is this newborn child? He is described as the messianic king exercising his dominion. In verse 5, the author of Revelation chose the messianic Psalm 2 to describe how this child will “rule all the nations with a rod of iron” (Rev. 12:5, Ps. 2:9). This royal son is taken up to heaven to sit on a throne (Rev. 12:5), and he ushers in the kingdom of God by defeating the devil: “Now the kingdom of our God has come, for the accuser has been throne down” (12:10). Certainly, this newborn child is the royal Messiah, King Jesus.

In this light it is clear who this woman is who gave birth to the messiah: It is Mary. Some people have interpreted this woman in Revelation 12 as merely a symbol either for the Old Testament people of Israel or for the New Testament Church and therefore have concluded that the woman cannot be an individual (i.e., Mary). However, this “either-or” proposition is foreign to the biblical worldview, in which individuals often symbolically represent collective groups. For instance, Adam represented all humanity (Rom. 5:19), and Jacob stood for all of Israel (Ps. 44:4). Given this biblical notion called “corporate personality,” the woman in Revelation 12 should be understood as both an individual (Mary) and a symbol for the people of God.

But for our purposes, once we see that this woman is Mary, the mother of Jesus, it is important to note how she is portrayed as queen in this passage. Her royal office is hinted at by the imagery of the sun, moon, and twelve stars, which recalls the Old Testament story of Joseph’s dream in which the sun, moon, and stars bow down before him, symbolizing his future authority (Gen. 37:9–11). Her queenship is made even clearer by the crown of twelve stars on her head. Just like the queen mother in Jeremiah 13:18, here Mary is wearing a crown, symbolizing her royal office in the kingdom of heaven. In sum, Revelation 12 portrays Mary as the new queen mother in the Kingdom of God, sharing in her son’s rule over the universe.

We have seen how the Old Testament queen mother tradition serves as an important background for understanding Mary’s royal office. Indeed, the New Testament portrays Mary as the queen mother par excellence. Thus, prayers, hymns, and art giving honor to Mary’s queenship are most fitting biblical responses for Christians. In honoring her as queen mother we do not take anything away from Christ’s glory, but rather we exalt him even more by recognizing the great work he has done in her and through her.

Understanding Mary as queen mother sheds light on her important intercessory role in the Christian life. Just like the queen mother of the Davidic kingdom, Mary serves as advocate for the people in the Kingdom of God today. Thus, we should approach our queen mother with confidence, knowing that she carries our petitions to her royal son and that he responds to her as Solomon did to Bathsheba: “I will never refuse you.”
Is Mary’s Queenship Biblical?

Mary might as well be part of this exclusive club since they are calling her the "queen of heaven", notwithstanding the total lack of evidence in scripture.

I gave plenty of evidence, you just refuse to see it.

 

[Pearl]

In my NTL bible there are explanatory passages at the start of each book about the authors and it definitey states that both James and Jude were Jesus' half brothers. And it also states that Jesus was the big brother of other siblings as well. Now if this had not been researched and deemed correct it would not be printed in a bible.

 

[Taken]

No - we can take this as YOU not understanding the difference between the Roles of the Trinity and Modalism (Sabellianism).
Virtually EVERY heresy is based on a misconception of the very nature of God - and yours is no different.

Heresy: is what men have defined as when another does not agree with them.

Scripture teaches to agree with God, not men.

 

[Taken]

I've already shown you this verse in the Greek - and it indicates that He is HUMAN:
The literal translation is:
Heb. 2:17
Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, ...
ὅθεν ὤφειλεν κατὰ πάντα τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ὁμοιωθῆναι, ...

Verse 14 from the YOUR revered KJV -
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Checkmate . . .

When you were born...could you take a wild guess that perhaps you were called a BABY?

Why?

And do your relatives still call you a BABY?

Why not?

 

[Dcopymope]

Finally, Mary’s queenship can be seen in the great vision described in Revelation 12: “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery” (Rev. 12:1–2). Who is this newborn child? He is described as the messianic king exercising his dominion. In verse 5, the author of Revelation chose the messianic Psalm 2 to describe how this child will “rule all the nations with a rod of iron” (Rev. 12:5, Ps. 2:9). This royal son is taken up to heaven to sit on a throne (Rev. 12:5), and he ushers in the kingdom of God by defeating the devil: “Now the kingdom of our God has come, for the accuser has been throne down” (12:10). Certainly, this newborn child is the royal Messiah, King Jesus.

In this light it is clear who this woman is who gave birth to the messiah: It is Mary. Some people have interpreted this woman in Revelation 12 as merely a symbol either for the Old Testament people of Israel or for the New Testament Church and therefore have concluded that the woman cannot be an individual (i.e., Mary). However, this “either-or” proposition is foreign to the biblical worldview, in which individuals often symbolically represent collective groups. For instance, Adam represented all humanity (Rom. 5:19), and Jacob stood for all of Israel (Ps. 44:4). Given this biblical notion called “corporate personality,” the woman in Revelation 12 should be understood as both an individual (Mary) and a symbol for the people of God.

But for our purposes, once we see that this woman is Mary, the mother of Jesus, it is important to note how she is portrayed as queen in this passage. Her royal office is hinted at by the imagery of the sun, moon, and twelve stars, which recalls the Old Testament story of Joseph’s dream in which the sun, moon, and stars bow down before him, symbolizing his future authority (Gen. 37:9–11). Her queenship is made even clearer by the crown of twelve stars on her head. Just like the queen mother in Jeremiah 13:18, here Mary is wearing a crown, symbolizing her royal office in the kingdom of heaven. In sum, Revelation 12 portrays Mary as the new queen mother in the Kingdom of God, sharing in her son’s rule over the universe.

The only times in scripture we ever hear of an actual "queen of heaven" is in reference to a false idol, provoking God to anger. Nothing is ever stated in the passages you cite of a "queen mother", or "queen of heaven" being part of the actual prophecies of the coming king Jesus who is to rule forever. You clearly came to your conclusions by inductive reasoning. A few verses makes statements of a kings mother gaining the title of a "queen", therefore to you it must be true that Mary is also the "queen of heaven", despite no prophecies stating this to be the case for the kingdom to come, old or new testament. This line of reasoning doesn't even come close to holding up to scrutiny. This is like me claiming that because a few verses mention angelic beings having wings, all angels therefore must have wings, which is of course never stated to be the case.

(Jeremiah 7:17-20) "¶ Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? {18} The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. {19} Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? {20} Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched."

(Jeremiah 44:15-19) "¶ Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying, {16} As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee. {17} But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. {18} But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. {19} And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?"

And I was fully expecting you to cite Revelation 12 as "evidence" of Mary's position as a "queen". This is exactly why I made the thread below addressing Revelation 12 in detail, proving without a shadow of a doubt that the "woman" in revelation 12 makes no reference whatsoever to Mary birthing Jesus but to Israel as a nation as his birthplace. The similarities between Mary and the "woman" in Rev 12 end with the chapter speaking of the woman birthing the "man child". After that, you would have to do some deadly serious mental gymnastics to conclude that the woman of Rev 12 refers to Mary as the "queen of heaven".

Link: The Woman in Revelation 12

 

[Illuminator]

The only times in scripture we ever hear of an actual "queen of heaven" is in reference to a false idol, provoking God to anger.

Equating a title given to a pagan goddess with Jesus' mother granted to her centuries later is an abuse of scripture, not to mention insanely stupid.

Nothing is ever stated in the passages you cite of a "queen mother", or "queen of heaven" being part of the actual prophecies of the coming king Jesus who is to rule forever. You clearly came to your conclusions by inductive reasoning. A few verses makes statements of a kings mother gaining the title of a "queen", therefore to you it must be true that Mary is also the "queen of heaven", despite no prophecies stating this to be the case for the kingdom to come, old or new testament. This line of reasoning doesn't even come close to holding up to scrutiny. This is like me claiming that because a few verses mention angelic beings having wings, all angels therefore must have wings, which is of course never stated to be the case.

Foreshadow does not mean duplication. The pattern is fixed in the Old Testament, which you deny. The Kingship of Jesus without the queenship of Mary is stupid and absurd.

And I was fully expecting you to cite Revelation 12 as "evidence" of Mary's position as a "queen". This is exactly why I made the thread below addressing Revelation 12 in detail, proving without a shadow of a doubt that the "woman" in revelation 12 makes no reference whatsoever to Mary birthing Jesus but to Israel as a nation as his birthplace. The similarities between Mary and the "woman" in Rev 12 end with the chapter speaking of the woman birthing the "man child". After that, you would have to do some deadly serious mental gymnastics to conclude that the woman of Rev 12 refers to Mary as the "queen of heaven".

Link: The Woman in Revelation 12

I didn't cite a few verses, I cited over 2 dozen that you claim aren't there. You have a King with no queen, which does violence to Judaism. Christianity is rooted in Judaism, you are simply in denial of its monarchy. Clearly you don't understand foreshadow, and deny the Davidic Kingdom was a monarchy with all its queens. "Inductive reasoning" is just an excuse.

John 19:26 – Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying “behold your mother.” Jesus did not say “John, behold your mother” because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.

Rev. 12:17 – this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The “woman’s” (Mary’s) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God’s covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.

John 2:3 – this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary’s intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus’ ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one family through the marriage of divinity and humanity.

John 2:7 – Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother’s request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.

Psalm 45:9 – the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God’s kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.

1 Kings 2:17, 20 – in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.

1 Kings 2:18 – in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King’s followers. She is the Queen Mother (or “Gebirah”). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.

1 Kings 2:19 – in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.

1 Kings 15:13 – the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel’s royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.

2 Chron. 22:10 – here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.

Neh. 2:6 – the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.

 

[Illuminator]

If the kings of Judah had wives for queens, like other nations, then we would have no analogy, but the fact that it might be so unusual, makes it all the more stunning. That the kings in the ancestral line of Jesus had mothers for queens is all the more appropriate that Jesus continue this “unusual practice” and make his mother the queen according to the same pattern of his predecessors.

One cannot deny that Solomon, the Son of David who sat on the throne of his father David — Solomon did have his mother for a queen. And he did set up the throne for her at his right hand. If it is unusual, it only makes my case all the stronger.

One cannot deny that Jesus sits on the throne of his father Solomon. Jesus is the ultimate Son of David who sits on the throne of David (and Solomon) and it would not be unbiblical or irrational or astounding to think that Jesus would do for his mother what Solomon did for his. . . .

But anti-Mary liberal Protestants, who have little or no historical connection with their own reformers,
deny it anyway.

 

[Taken]

The only times in scripture we ever hear of an actual "queen of heaven" is in reference to a false idol, provoking God to anger. Nothing is ever stated in the passages you cite of a "queen mother", or "queen of heaven" being part of the actual prophecies of the coming king Jesus who is to rule forever.

Agree.

Luke 8
[20] And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.


Additionally out of the mouth of Jesus;

Luke 8:
[21] And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

So is all of Jesus' "mothers" are queens of Heaven...lol

And ... aren't queens typically Female?

Matt 22:
[30] For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

ARE as the Angels?

And angel's of God are always portrayed AS:
Female Queen mothers of God? lol

And there is that itty bitty conundrum...
God has no mother or father...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Illuminator]

.

 

[Dcopymope]

Agree.

Luke 8
[20] And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.


Additionally out of the mouth of Jesus;

Luke 8:
[21] And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

So is all of Jesus' "mothers" are queens of Heaven...lol

And ... aren't queens typically Female?

Matt 22:
[30] For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

ARE as the Angels?

And angel's of God are always portrayed AS:
Female Queen mothers of God? lol

And there is that itty bitty conundrum...
God has no mother or father...

Glory to God,
Taken

You would think that if Mary was going to be the "queen of heaven" someday that her own son would care to mention it, and explicitly state so. This tremendous "revelation" we are only given by Catholics and misguided believers just went totally over his head, and over the head of John and the rest of his disciples.

 

[Illuminator]

And there is that itty bitty conundrum...
God has no mother or father...
Glory to God,
Taken

Jesus is God, the conundrum is yours.

 

[Taken]

The Kingship of Jesus without the queenship of Mary is stupid and absurd.

Why?

 

[Dcopymope]

^ Yeah, what he said, lol.

 

[Taken]

Jesus is God, the conundrum is yours.

So you believe God... without mother or father has a mother?