Regeneration before or after saving faith

[Eternally Grateful]

The saved ones knew their Messiah was coming and trusted in Him. I’m not telling God who He can and can’t saved. You’re the one doing this my friend. If God doesn’t try to save everyone, He is being unfair in your book. I say He is being just by leaving many in their fallen state. Grace is unmerited favor, and for it to be grace, it must be free. If He has to offer grace to everyone, then it becomes an obligation and ceases to be grace.

oh they did?

Poor saul

even Peter and John had to wlk with jesus for 3 years. and they still could not understand what he was supposed to do.

God does offer grace to everyone, The mere fact you and I are sitting here having this conversation is by Gods grace.

we deserve hell. Every man woman and child who walks the earth deserves hell. The mere fact thay are not there this moment, is because of Grace.

Grace is not just some magic formula. It is something given with is not earned. and it is not just related to salvation. Israel was shown grace for centuries while she continued in her sin befor God totally remoeved them from her land in 70 AD.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

First, you are bearing false witness, because I never said anything about a power with in us.

Nope, sorry.

You specifically stated how you prepared your own heart to receive God and for doing this you were rewarded salvation. Nothing I stated was "bearing false witness."

Furthermore your belief that you were, while dead in sin able to come shows you believe you have the power and ability.

Please lose your false accusations out of our dialog. I never lied about you nor anyone else here.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

@SovereignGrace

Jeremiah 19:5, "Nor did it ever enter My mind." | CARM.org

I'm reading up on this so as to learn and grasp it. Plenty of time to read right now, pretty much everything is at a standstill.

 

[SovereignGrace]

the word harden means strengthen my friend, Harden is a poor translation

God strengthened Pharaohs desire to do what he wanted to do in the first place. And remember, in much of that discussion, Pharoah hardened his own heart many times.

if I want to do something, and I know it is wrong, and I do it. and I live through it, My desire to do it is strengthened, and my inhibitions are weakened. I am hardening my heart

Like God says, tell the truth so that by seeing they can not see, and hearing they do not hear. Because the more you reject, the more you believe the lie you have told yourself. and the harder it is to repent.

You could say he strengthened his heart in his rebellion toward Moses and God’s ppl. I never heard that harden also meant strengthen. Huh, I learned something new today.

Yes, Pharaoh hardened his own heart. From his perspective he did, but God was the one who hardened it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Be ye holy as I am holy. That’s a command. We are commanded to be as holy as He is. By using your logic, God is being deceptive, cunning, and seen as a deceiver, as He has commanded us to be just as holy as He is, yet we are unable to do so.

We are commanded to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. Yet none of us can do this. By using your logic, God is being deceptive, cunning, and seen as a deceiver, seeing He has commanded us to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, knowing we cannot do it.

God gave the Jews the Law to keep. He demanded perfect obedience to it. If they violated it, many were put to death. He knew NONE OF THEM could keep it perfectly, yet commanded them to keep it perfectly. By using your logic, God is being deceptive, cunning, and seen as a deceiver, as He commanded to keep the Law perfectly, and punished them for their disobedience.

yep we are

but we are talking about the lost. unsaved jews, Not saved children of God.

yes he gave them laws. and yes he demanded perfection. For a reason. TO PROVE TO THEM NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE. (the law was a tutor to bring them to christ)

the first step is to SHOW a person their sin and how they are guilty before God. that's what the law shows.

if your like the pharisees and many jews, and think you are perfect at keeping the law. You will be as they were and reject christ, Who needs him when your already doing what God required?

f you think you can keep Gods law as he requires (perfection) its worse than I thought.

 

[SovereignGrace]

@SovereignGrace

Jeremiah 19:5, "Nor did it ever enter My mind." | CARM.org

I read that link earlier. Thanks Bruh! And stuff.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I'm glad you got post #666.

Evil Calvinist.

 

[SovereignGrace]

yep we are

but we are talking about the lost. unsaved jews, Not saved children of God.

yes he gave them laws. and yes he demanded perfection. For a reason. TO PROVE TO THEM NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS NO NOT ONE. (the law was a tutor to bring them to christ)

the first step is to SHOW a person their sin and how they are guilty before God. that's what the law shows.

if your like the pharisees and many jews, and think you are perfect at keeping the law. You will be as they were and reject christ, Who needs him when your already doing what God required?

f you think you can keep Gods law as he requires (perfection) its worse than I thought.

No I don’t think anyone can keep them perfectly. But by you saying God does tell us to do that which we can’t do, by showing you those examples, proves your assertion is false. God has commanded everyone everywhere to repent, knowing full well they cannot, of themselves, repent. God does command us to do that which we cannot do, as is still holy and just.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'm glad you got post #666.

Evil Calvinist.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You could say he strengthened his heart in his rebellion toward Moses and God’s ppl. I never heard that harden also meant strengthen. Huh, I learned something new today.

Yes, Pharaoh hardened his own heart. From his perspective he did, but God was the one who hardened it.

yes, By giving pharaoh strength to do what he wanted to do in the first place.

He did nto force pharoah to do anything against his will.

 

[SovereignGrace]

yes, By giving pharaoh strength to do what he wanted to do in the first place.

He did nto force pharoah to do anything against his will.

And no Calvinist states otherwise. What we state is man does what is in accordance with his nature. He cannot violate his nature and do that which is in opposition to it. That is why God must first change the nature, and by changing the nature, the will follows suit.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'm glad you got post #666.

Evil Calvinist.

I’ll try to make up for it by getting post #777.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I read that link earlier. Thanks Bruh! And stuff.

Response to “Prophecy Channel” | Alpha and Omega Ministries

...and stuff

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No I don’t think anyone can keep them perfectly. But by you saying God does tell us to do that which we can’t do, by showing you those examples, proves your assertion is false. God has commanded everyone everywhere to repent, knowing full well they cannot, of themselves, repent. God does command us to do that which we cannot do, as is still holy and just.

what did God say

Deuteronomy 27:26
‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Paul reiterated this in his letter the the galations

Galatians 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, 'kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Response to “Prophecy Channel” | Alpha and Omega Ministries

...and stuff

Thanks, Bruh. And stuff...

 

[SovereignGrace]

what did God say

Deuteronomy 27:26
‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Paul reiterated this in his letter the the galations

Galatians 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, 'kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

God never intended to save anyone via the Law...I’m sure we both agree with this. He used the Law to show them how utterly helpless they were, and we are without Him.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I admit that verse in Jeremiah 19:5 is a toughie as I haven’t studied it out. But I do know this did not catch Him flat-footed. When it states, “nor did it ever enter My mind”, He didn’t stir them up to do this. Could this be secondary causes?

God had already stated in Deuteronomy 12:31 and Leviticus 18:21 he already knew these things and warned against them prior to Jeremiah 7:31 and Jeremiah 19:5.

 

[SovereignGrace]

God had already stated in Deuteronomy 12:31 and Leviticus 18:21 he already knew these things and warned against them prior to Jeremiah 7:31 and Jeremiah 19:5.

Bingo! Thanks!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

View attachment 8866

Notice in this picture how they have two paths to choose from? This is one example of the gross misapplying of the verse to free will. Man is already on the road to destruction, and does not have to do one thing to go to hell. Man does not come to the proverbial ‘fork in the road’ and choose option A or option B.

So, let em understand your view here: God creates "Bob" without free will, heading straight for destruction. Bob can do nothing about it- can't accept the Savior, can't reject the Savior either. Kind of like if God had created Bob thousands of feet in the air, and then Bob can do nothing about gravity and the splat at the end. Do I got that correct?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God never intended to save anyone via the Law...I’m sure we both agree with this. He used the Law to show them how utterly helpless they were, and we are without Him.

yes, that was the point I was making in the first place. We agree