When Tempted, Giving over to [Willful] Sin equates to Eternal Death, not Eternal Life.

[Joseph77]

You can have perfect intentions towards God. You can't be sinless. The law never justified anyone.
In the first place, the word that is translated “perfect” literally means “be complete.”

So you know that the word perfect is not the perfect word in the translation, good, that's a start.
"Be complete" , Jesus says you must be complete, as His Father in heaven is complete.
RIGHT ?

So you can be complete ? As Jesus Says, and not trip up over a misunderstanding of His Word ?

WHO said the law justified anyone ? WHY did you even mention that ?

 

[Joseph77]

Because it's important to understand, otherwise we will despair every time we fall short.

WHY DESPAIR ?

Ever see a football player IN TRAINING ?

A baby learning to walk ?

A puppy or a baby elephant learning to run and play ?

DO they despair (well, they might, but they usually don't or don't have to)

 

[Renniks]

WHO said the law justified anyone ? WHY did you even mention that ?

Because I feel like people on this thread are trying to be justified by thier works.

 

[Paul Christensen]

So they didn't need a Savior? How nice for them. But scripture says all have sinned and fall short.

Yes. We all need to walk before God and be perfect. That is what the Scripture says. But it is the perfect Christ in us, and His righteousness given to us as a gift that makes us perfect in God's sight. Because we are in Christ, God sees us a perfect, even though when we view ourselves we see ourselves as still sinners. This is because our own righteousness falls short of God's standards. But the righteousness of Christ which has been given to us is perfect, and that is what God sees in us.

It amazes me that so many don't understand this, and try to strengthen their own righteousness through spiritual self improvement, thinking that they can become better Christians. Doesn't happen.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Wrong.
Did you never read Jesus' Own Words in the BIBLE ?
Or hear His Voice as He Says, inline with all the Bible ?

MUST BE 'perfect' is what He still says... and is still written ... never changed.

That is not and never has been a condition for salvation, if it was then no one including you would be saved for we are all sinners, not perfect.

 

[Paul Christensen]

That is not and never has been a condition for salvation, if it was then no one including you would be saved for we are all sinners, not perfect.

A gospel that does not include the unsaved being fully convinced of his sinfulness against the Ten Commandments, and is in serious danger of being found guilty in the judgment and spending eternity in hell, before giving the good news of salvation through Christ - is a false gospel, deceiving converts that they are fully saved, when they are not. A person has to be convinced of their total sinfulness before trusting in Jesus who has taken their penalty from them when He died on the cross. How would they know why Jesus paid their 'fine" when they are not aware that they need to have it paid?

Those who become professing Christians without being convinced of their sinfulness will appear and act like genuine converts, but they wont be, and if they say they have become perfect examples of moral excellence, it will be just an act, a pretence for the onlookers and nothing more.

 

[Joseph77]

That is not and never has been a condition for salvation, if it was then no one including you would be saved for we are all sinners, not perfect.

Is God's Word Perfect and True?
(God's Word as His Meaning , not as men have changed it)

 

[Paul Christensen]

Is God's Word Perfect and True?
(God's Word as His Meaning , not as men have changed it)

If I had a knife in my back and have three minutes to live what would you tell me?

 

[Joseph77]

If I had a knife in my back and have three minutes to live what would you tell me?

"Good Bye" "Anything you want me to tell your family or anyone else?"

 

[Windmillcharge]

A gospel that does not include the unsaved being fully convinced of his sinfulness against the Ten Commandments, and is in serious danger of being found guilty in the judgment and spending eternity in hell, before giving the good news of salvation through Christ - is a false gospel, deceiving converts that they are fully saved, when they are not. A person has to be convinced of their total sinfulness before trusting in Jesus who has taken their penalty from them when He died on the cross. How would they know why Jesus paid their 'fine" when they are not aware that they need to have it paid?

Those who become professing Christians without being convinced of their sinfulness will appear and act like genuine converts, but they wont be, and if they say they have become perfect examples of moral excellence, it will be just an act, a pretence for the onlookers and nothing more.

Please follow the whole thread.
I was telling to a post that maintains that in order to be saved you or I must be perfect.
My reply made no mention of not being repentant or any thing you raised, in short your reply was incorrect and unnecessary.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Is God's Word Perfect and True?
(God's Word as His Meaning , not as men have changed it)

The state of God's word is not what you have been sayingyou have said that in order to be saved one must be perfect.
I repeat this has never been a condition for being saved.

 

[Giuliano]

Lol, you just contradicted yourself. Yes, it means desire, sexual desire included.

That is not a contradiction on my part. It does include any desire -- but it does not necessarily mean "lust" in a sinful manner. It would include sexual lust in a sinful way, in some instances to be sure; but it doesn't necessarily mean that.

 

[Giuliano]

But no one is perfect. So either heaven will be empty or his righteousness applied to us is enough.

Why would Jesus tell people to be perfect if it was impossible? Was he making an unreasonable demand?

Was Jesus joking when he said few find the way?

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Why do people think then it's so easy? It is not easy to find the strait way and the narrow way. That being said, Jesus also said the same day:

8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There may be many things God can overlook; but when the Holy Spirit shows us something we are about to do is a sin, we risk a great deal if we do it. We cannot say it was impossible not to do it. When God places good and evil before us so we clearly see the choice, He will hold us accountable for our choices.

We may all have flaws to deal with; but God has made it possible for us to deal with them one by one, gently leading His children along. Every flaw dealt with is another step in the direction of perfection. Why give up and not take steps towards perfection because we say, "Well, we're not perfect and can't be perfect, so it doesn't matter."

 

[Giuliano]

Because I feel like people on this thread are trying to be justified by thier works.

The truth is even if we could live completely sinless lives from birth, we would still all need Jesus since we would still all die.

 

[Paul Christensen]

"Good Bye" "Anything you want me to tell your family or anyone else?"

In other words you wouldn't know how to give the gospel to a dying person.

 

[Renniks]

Why would Jesus tell people to be perfect if it was impossible? Was he making an unreasonable demand?

Was Jesus joking when he said few find the way?

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Why do people think then it's so easy? It is not easy to find the strait way and the narrow way. That being said, Jesus also said the same day:

8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There may be many things God can overlook; but when the Holy Spirit shows us something we are about to do is a sin, we risk a great deal if we do it. We cannot say it was impossible not to do it. When God places good and evil before us so we clearly see the choice, He will hold us accountable for our choices.

We may all have flaws to deal with; but God has made it possible for us to deal with them one by one, gently leading His children along. Every flaw dealt with is another step in the direction of perfection. Why give up and not take steps towards perfection because we say, "Well, we're not perfect and can't be perfect, so it doesn't matter."

I never said don't try to improve. And Jesus is the narrow gate. Entering through him only is something few find. It is just amazing that some think they are perfect or nearly there.
It is impossible to get better without relying on his blood alone for salvation.

 

[Joseph77]

Please follow the whole thread.
I was telling to a post that maintains that in order to be saved you or I must be perfect.

oops.
Nope.
Unless there's a post I missed (which happens),
you never showed a post anywhere that maintains that in order to be saved you or I must be perfect.
(hopefully that is not true, that you must be perfect as you mean it, otherwise ... well, with one imperfect post like this... )

 

[Joseph77]

If I had a knife in my back and have three minutes to live what would you tell me?

In other words you wouldn't know how to give the gospel to a dying person.

So, you do not have Jesus !?
I do not think that is what you want us to think, do you ?

 

[Giuliano]

I never said don't try to improve. And Jesus is the narrow gate. Entering through him only is something few find. It is just amazing that some think they are perfect or nearly there.
It is impossible to get better without relying on his blood alone for salvation.

I am not following you. Jesus has already done his part. Now it's time for us to do ours so some day he can look at us and say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."

 

[Renniks]

I am not following you. Jesus has already done his part. Now it's time for us to do ours so some day he can look at us and say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."

What aren't you following? He said few find the narrow gate- which is salvation through him alone. Not through good works or another god of our making.

We can do no good in ourselves. If I do a billion good deeds in my own strength, it's meaningless. If I do one good deed in him, it's worthy of reward.
Yes, we are responsible to use what he has entrusted to us wisely, but that isn't what saves us.