When Tempted, Giving over to [Willful] Sin equates to Eternal Death, not Eternal Life.

[07-07-07]

Sorry, but originally, it was simply "desire" (i.e. in the original), and it is still written: What is born of the flesh, is flesh, and profits nothing - the mildest gentlest revelation that not what comes from the flesh is good nor helpful nor should be encouraged at all.

I am not certain of what you're saying. However, it is very important for people to understand that temptations are part of this walk with God. We are going to be tried and tested again and again -- and satan has much more to work with given that society is like Sodom and Gomorrah nowadays. Women used to cover their bodies, but no more and leave little to the imagination. We are indeed on satan's home turf, but we do not have to yield to him by giving over to lust.

To clarify, men and women are born with a desire for sex, just as much as we desire food to feed our bodies; it's perfectly normal because that's the way God made us. However, Jesus taught that when natural desire becomes lust (covetousness), then adultery of the heart has been committed. Satan has caused people to twist this Scripture to make them believe that they can't live free from sin. He will whisper: "you see, you can't live free from sin because you thought about it". It's a lie. You're being tempted, but resist the devil and he will flee from you. Cast down those unsavory thoughts, and proclaim victory as you resist sin by the power Jesus has given you. You're no longer living by the lust of the flesh but living by the Spirit. That's a Jesus over-comer. I pray that this helps. God bless.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Whether and howmuch you struggle , does not make you perfect or unperfect. Since Jesus Himself says TO the born again ones, the Ekklesia,
"you must be perfect", and Jesus does not lie, then find out what Jesus means....
just as God tells His people, "You must be holy, because I your God am holy" .... and this was and is truth - unchanging, as God says. Find out what God means.


Did Christ lay hold of you ? Or did you not yet repent ? I expect positively you repented at least once.... and hopefully do not willfully rebel against Jesus the Savior....


No. Not "when 'we' fail", if 'we' is meant to include all people - as most people fail, and never repent, and their end is destruction.

We do not have to be perfect to become a Christian, nor do we have to be perfect to remain a Christian.
If that were true Jesus would not have had to die.

No good works have no place in salvation, they are merely tokens of our love.

 

[Joseph77]

We do not have to be perfect to become a Christian, nor do we have to be perfect to remain a Christian.
If that were true Jesus would not have had to die.

No good works have no place in salvation, they are merely tokens of our love.

Believe Jesus FIRST.... do not change His Word, to satisfy man's wrong ideas.

NOTE THAT "perfect" is totally achievable IN HIS MEANING - like a "perfect football player" who plays his best, (and only for his own team).
NOT 'perfect' as in the english definition, which is NOT Jesus nor His Father's command.

Someone else suggest "mature" is better to convey JESUS' and HIS FATHER'S meaning in Scripture, and that is quite possible, yes.

as in "you must be mature, because your father in heaven is mature" ... it is not a perfect fix, but it is a start in the correct direction to find the Father's Meaning, as the Father ORIGINALLY REVEALED in His Word, and as HE REVEALS TODAY, to little children..

so "you must be perfect" , is totally right, when the word perfect is understood not in english, but as the Father meant it.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Believe Jesus FIRST.... do not change His Word, to satisfy man's wrong ideas.

NOTE THAT "perfect" is totally achievable IN HIS MEANING - like a "perfect football player" who plays his best, (and only for his own team).
NOT 'perfect' as in the english definition, which is NOT Jesus nor His Father's command.

Someone else suggest "mature" is better to convey JESUS' and HIS FATHER'S meaning in Scripture, and that is quite possible, yes.

as in "you must be mature, because your father in heaven is mature" ... it is not a perfect fix, but it is a start in the correct direction to find the Father's Meaning, as the Father ORIGINALLY REVEALED in His Word, and as HE REVEALS TODAY, to little children..

so "you must be perfect" , is totally right, when the word perfect is understood not in english, but as the Father meant it.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. John3:16

You may add being perfect doing good works or what ever you imagine, but none is what the Bible says.
It is only through faith and that is a gift from Got.

 

[Joseph77]

You may add being perfect doing good works or what ever you imagine, but none is what the Bible says.

Wrong.
Did you never read Jesus' Own Words in the BIBLE ?
Or hear His Voice as He Says, inline with all the Bible ?

MUST BE 'perfect' is what He still says... and is still written ... never changed.

 

[Renniks]

Jesus is not saying that a desire for someone is adultery of the heart, but rather to lust after him/her. Sex is a perfectly normal desire, without which none of us would be here, but to lust after forbidden fruit is sin. Unsavory thoughts may well enter your mind when you see someone who your hormones desire, but does the love of God overcome in those situations to resist the sin? If not, then you have committed adultery of the heart. If so, you're rooted and grounded in God.

It's exactly what he's saying. Desire for someone other than your wife is adultery of the heart. You are just trying to split hairs, when there's no difference.

 

[Renniks]

Wrong.
Did you never read Jesus' Own Words in the BIBLE ?
Or hear His Voice as He Says, inline with all the Bible ?

MUST BE 'perfect' is what He still says... and is still written ... never changed.

But no one is perfect. So either heaven will be empty or his righteousness applied to us is enough.

 

[Joseph77]

But no one is perfect. So either heaven will be empty or his righteousness applied to us is enough.

Do you think Jesus is wrong, or man's definition of perfect is wrong ?
When you say no one is perfect, is this in line with all of God's Word ? (no) (except when twisted to man's definitions)
Jesus says we must be perfect.
Period.
Someone suggest the word "mature" is a better translation. Would that help ? Jesus says we must be mature - if a child, then learning what is right always , and not what is wrong always. A child TRAINED in the way he should go is right , not wrong, and he will not depart far from it when he is older.

Big problem - who do you yourself know who was trained right as a child?

Or ever ?

 

[07-07-07]

But no one is perfect. So either heaven will be empty or his righteousness applied to us is enough.

One can be "God" perfect. Man has created his own opinion as to what is deemed perfect.

Job 1
[1] There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Luke 1
[5] There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
[6] And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

[Joseph77]

One can be "God" perfect. Man has created his own opinion as to what is deemed perfect.

As God pointed out Job, and others, almost as exceptions, but certainly also as examples for us to learn what is right,

but some people, many Christians, may think that is too hard, to be like those men of faith,

but they can and do (too often) watch football, and have called different player "perfect" or some similar description, when the player does well in a game, for a season, for several seasons...
even little children 3 years old to 18 years old, playing a game, from croquet, to baseball, to bowling, are often seen and called "perfect", of something similar,
when they are just cute and adorable and smiling and doing what they can the best they can....

so also it was pointed out in the past , being perfect as Jesus says to be, is not an option, it is REQUIRED, so what does Jesus mean ? Did the EKKLESIA in ACTS live perfect lives? In Galatians ? In Ephesians ? In Laodoceia ?

Some did. It is written who did. Who lived daily full of RIGHTEOUSNESS, and peace, and joy.

How? By works of the flesh?? (Galatians) Is that how miracles were done? No, neither - rather

the Father through His Ruah, and through His Spirit, accomplished the miracles, the righteousness, the joy and the peace,

SAME AS THE FLAMES SEEN on their heads AT PENTECOST - the Father's Word being accomplished BY HIM !

And the peope, who were told to be perfect, (not in English, THANK GOD!) were perfect daily, (except when /if/ they sinned, and then like little children they were corrected appropriately, and sometimes SEVERELY (ananias and saphira dropped dead for lying to God) ... ) ...

 

[Paul Christensen]

You are in error not knowing the Scriptures. Sinners do not inherit eternal life, only the Saints do. Saints do not willfully sin, but sinners do.

To those who are willful sinners, cry out to God while you have time to deliver you from your bondage(s). God is merciful and willing to forgive; but, don't fall for the lie that you can continue in willful sin and inherit eternal life. God expects you to be an over-comer and He provides the power to walk in His ways. Glory be to God!

1 John 2
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

One must grow a sense of humour to distinguish when I am being serious and when I am not.

 

[Joseph77]

One must grow a sense of humour to distinguish when I am being serious and when I am not.

Isn't Seious a constellation in the night sky ? How could you be a constellation ?

 

[Paul Christensen]

Isn't Seious a constellation in the night sky ? How could you be a constellation ?

That's a good one. I love it! A man with a sense of humour!

 

[Renniks]

Do you think Jesus is wrong, or man's definition of perfect is wrong ?
When you say no one is perfect, is this in line with all of God's Word ? (no) (except when twisted to man's definitions)
Jesus says we must be perfect.
Period.
Someone suggest the word "mature" is a better translation. Would that help ? Jesus says we must be mature - if a child, then learning what is right always , and not what is wrong always. A child TRAINED in the way he should go is right , not wrong, and he will not depart far from it when he is older.

Big problem - who do you yourself know who was trained right as a child?

Or ever ?

We aren't saved by perfect obedience. We are saved by his sacrifice. If we could be perfect, it would not have been needed. If we could be sinless, he would not have come to die for us.
"our griefs He Himself bore, And our
sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him."

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

 

[Joseph77]

We aren't saved by perfect obedience.

and ?
why mention this at all ?

 

[Joseph77]

If we could be perfect, it would not have been needed.

Did Jesus tell you wrong then, when He says in Scripture, you must be perfect because your heavenly Father is perfect ?

(and noted throughout His Word when His people were perfect, and when they were rebellious - blessed, or scourged, disciplined, trained, and taught)

 

[Joseph77]

If we could be sinless, he would not have come to die for us.

Right - this is in line with all Scripture. Good ....

 

[Renniks]

One can be "God" perfect. Man has created his own opinion as to what is deemed perfect.

Job 1
[1] There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Luke 1
[5] There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
[6] And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So they didn't need a Savior? How nice for them. But scripture says all have sinned and fall short.

 

[Renniks]

Did Jesus tell you wrong then, when He says in Scripture, you must be perfect because your heavenly Father is perfect ?

(and noted throughout His Word when His people were perfect, and when they were rebellious - blessed, or scourged, disciplined, trained, and taught)

You can have perfect intentions towards God. You can't be sinless. The law never justified anyone.
In the first place, the word that is translated “perfect” literally means “be complete.”
And if you are in him:

• You are holy. You are covered in Christ’s righteousness and declared righteous—justified—in God’s sight, now identified as holy and beloved children.
• You are being made holy. You are becoming more like Christ—sanctified—as his Spirit powerfully works obedience within you.
• You will be made holy. When you exit this earth and enter heaven, beholding Jesus’s glory, you will be made like him, fully and perfectly holy as he is—glorified.

 

[Renniks]

and ?
why mention this at all ?

Because it's important to understand, otherwise we will despair every time we fall short.