The messiah didn't come yet.

[Eliyahu613]

https://parish.rcdow.org.uk/swissco...4/11/44-Prophecies-Jesus-Christ-Fulfilled.pdf

Bs"d

The third prophecy there is this: "Messiah would be born of a virgin.Isaiah 7:14"

Now the fact of the matter is, that prophecy doesn't exist. Nowhere in the Tanach is there a prophecy about a virgin giving birth.
Just doesn't exist.

If you want to know what is going on in Isaiah 7, look here: Isaiah 7

 

[Eliyahu613]

https://parish.rcdowMessiah would spend a season in Egypt.Hosea 11:1.org.uk/swisscottage/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2014/11/44-Prophecies-Jesus-Christ-Fulfilled.pdf

Bs"d

An other "messianic prophecy" they bring there is "Messiah would spend a season in Egypt. Hosea 11:1"

Here it is: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son."

Now who is it that God calls "His son"? God is very clear about that: "‘This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son, 23 and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’” Ex 4:22

As we all know; God brought Israel up out of Egypt. So it is very clear that this whole verse speaks about Israel, and not only the first part.

So also here is a verse which has no bearing on the messiah what so ever, ripped out of context, and presented as a "messianic prophecy".

 

[Eliyahu613]

The Jews are not looking for a divine messiah. They are looking for a political leader like another Bar Kochba.

Bs"d

In the whole Tanach is no divine messiah to be found.

We are looking for a messiah who is going to fulfill the messianic prophecies.

So far nobody did that yet.

 

[Eliyahu613]

https://parish.rcdow.org.uk/swissco...4/11/44-Prophecies-Jesus-Christ-Fulfilled.pdf

Bs"d

Here is another prophecy from that page: "Messiah would be rejected by his own people. Psalm 69:8 Isaiah 53:3"

Here something where I react on this page with 324 "messianic prophecies": http://www.hopeofisrael.net/

Psa. 69:4...Hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25
Psa. 69:8...A stranger to own brethren...Lu. 8;20,21
Psa. 69:9...Zealous for the Lord's House...Jn. 2:17
Psa. 69:14-20...Messiah's anguish of soul before crucifixion...Mt. 26:36-45
Psa. 69:20..."My soul is exceeding sorrowful."...Mt. 26:38
Psa. 69:21...Given vinegar in thirst...Mt. 27:34
Psa. 69:26...The Saviour given and smitten by God...Jn. 17:4; 18:11

Here we have Psalm 69, good for seven "messianic prophecies".

Let's now look at Psalm 69 inside: "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; They are mighty who would destroy me, being my enemies wrongfully; though I have stolen nothing, I still must restore it. O God, You know my foolishness; and my sins are not hidden from You." Verse 4 and 5.

Here we see that this speaks about a person with "foolishness" and sins. And since JC was without sins according to the Christians, it is impossible to say that this speaks about JC. It speaks of course about king David. So again, what the Christians do is they take a piece of text, doesn't matter what it is talking about, rip it out of context, and present it to us as a messianic prophecy.

And also Isaiah 53 has no bearing on the messiah what so ever. For the finer details look here: Isaiah53 - MountZion

 

[Taken]

Bs"d

The messiah hasn't come yet.

For the finer details look here: [removed]

You finer details have been removed.

Could you list from your perspective...
What you EXPECT:
Your Messiah to BE:
Your Messiah to DO:
?

Thank You,
Taken

 

[Eliyahu613]

https://parish.rcdow.org.uk/swissco...4/11/44-Prophecies-Jesus-Christ-Fulfilled.pdf

Bs"d

The following prophecy is to be found there: "Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced.Psalm 22:16 Zechariah 12:10"

For Psalm 22 look here: Psalm 22 Eng

For Zech 12:10 look here: et asher

 

[Eliyahu613]

You finer details have been removed.

Bs"d

Very irritating. Is it here forbidden to post links or something?

Could you list from your perspective...
What you EXPECT:
Your Messiah to BE:
Your Messiah to DO:
?

Thank You,
Taken

It is not about what I expect, it is about what God's prophets say the messiah will do.

Here is something about that:

Who and what is the messiah? Let us check according to the Holy Hebrew scriptures what the messiah is supposed to do.

Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from ancient days. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."

Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.

Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.

In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus' failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least 2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption. Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and coming back thousands of years later.

Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD is our righteousness."

When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'. However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way that the above prophecy was fulfilled.

.

Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.

 

[Eliyahu613]

What you EXPECT:
Your Messiah to BE:

Bs"d

The Jewish messiah is going to be for the full 100% a human being. He is not going to be God, not going to be divine, not the son of God, but a human being.

He will have extra-ordinary powers, like all the prophets had, but still he will be totally human.

And he will be in male line a descendant of David. Something that JC was not, because he had no father who was from the line of David. So therefore he is already disqualified from being the messiah.

 

[Eliyahu613]

You finer details have been removed.

Bs"d

The removed link pointed to an article that begins with: "Why don't the Jewish people recognize the New Testament?
by Rabbi Yitschak Goldstein & Eliyahu Silver"

Now here is an interesting experiment; put these lines in google search, and see how google cannot find their own pages.

What are they afraid of that they suppress that page? Nowadays Bing can find it. For years also Bing had a blind spot for my homepage, and also the Duckduckgo search machine finds it without no problem.

So if you want to read it, that's the way to go.

 

[Waiting on him]

Bs"d

The removed link pointed to an article that begins with: "Why don't the Jewish people recognize the New Testament?
by Rabbi Yitschak Goldstein & Eliyahu Silver"

Now here is an interesting experiment; put these lines in google search, and see how google cannot find their own pages.

What are they afraid of that they suppress that page? Nowadays Bing can find it. For years also Bing had a blind spot for my homepage, and also the Duckduckgo search machine finds it without no problem.

So if you want to read it, that's the way to go.

How do you atone for your sin?

 

[Waiting on him]

Also welcome to the forum.

 

[rockytopva]

How do you atone for your sin?

As my hide is gentile I dare not go to the Father without the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[101G]

Bs"d

So when somebody says: "I am the messiah", then the messiah has come?

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for your reply, Scond, YES, when God said that he is the messiah, and he had come ... then he is the messiah. did God lie? God forbid, well then Jesus is the messiah, and he has come. how hard is that?.

but just like Isaiah the prophet said, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?", chapter 53 verse 1.

why some Jews still "BELIEVE not", "that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". well, well, well, now this is GOOD NEWS, since some blindness are still on some Jews, that meas 2 things, na 3 things. #1. the fullness of the gentiles are not yet in, which means,
#2. the Lord Jesus haven't return yet in flesh the second time,
#3. the church is still here, (Not rapture yet), because the gentiles must be fully brought in, and if coming in where? .... the church? ... . BINGO.

the bible will tell you a lot if one just LISTEN, to the the Word of God.

thanks Eliyahu,

PICJAG.

 

[Eliyahu613]

How do you atone for your sin?

Bs"d

By being punished and suffering. Everybody suffers for his own sins. And in some cases also for the sins of his fathers.

Here is some more about that: animal sacrifices

 

[Eliyahu613]

As my hide is gentile I dare not go to the Father without the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bs"d

Everybody can go directly to God, without any intermediary. This was done by all the Gentiles who lived before the Jews were around.

Noach was a Gentile, but God spoke directly with him, and the first covenant God made, was with a non-Jew.

 

[Eliyahu613]

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for your reply, Scond, YES, when God said that he is the messiah, and he had come ... then he is the messiah. did God lie? God forbid, well then Jesus is the messiah, and he has come. how hard is that?.

Bs"d

Why do you think that God said that JC was the messiah?

 

[Waiting on him]

Bs"d

By being punished and suffering. Everybody suffers for his own sins. And in some cases also for the sins of his fathers.

Here is some more about that: sacrifices - MountZion

Then why all the animal sacrifice prior to 70 AD?

 

[Eliyahu613]

Also welcome to the forum.

Bs"d

Thank you.

 

[Waiting on him]

I mean why kill an animal when one can just take the punishment upon self?

 

[Eliyahu613]

Then why all the animal sacrifice prior to 70 AD?

Bs"d

Because God commanded it.

And when the third Temple is build then the animal sacrifices will be reinstated again.

 

[rockytopva]

Bs"d

By being punished and suffering. Everybody suffers for his own sins. And in some cases also for the sins of his fathers.

Here is some more about that: sacrifices - MountZion

Welcome to this forum. I believe God created the Jew most intelligent to understand the concept of law and judgement. And one of the smartest was Albert Einstein. I believe if E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

The Natural E/c2 in the form of mass produces a gravity that attracts other objects
The Intellectual E/c2 produces a gravity that draws us to study
The Spiritual E/c2 also has a gravity that draws

The spiritual gravity has more power with we humans than the intellectual. And when the heart is full only what I can describe as z/d, very bad! The movable aspects of life using Socrates divided line, and the old Chinese IChing....

Comparing the light and the darkness, the opposite of E/c2 would be z (absolute zero)/ d (darkness)...

Natural z/d - Nothing, empty space.
Mental z/d - Again nothing but empty space.
Spiritual z/d - z (laziness, coldness, hatred) / d (fear, despair, greed, sorrow)

Even though the human brain has the ability to do great things because of the spiritual aspects can almost be turned totally off. There is a man down the road from me who was born into a bad family who himself also does very badly, yet appearing to be a handsome and intelligent man. I believe if he was orphaned off to a well-to-do family he also would have been well-to-do. There are spiritual influences in this life that have great impact on the minds ability to process ideas. Einstein himself said...

"The real problem is in the hearts and minds of men. It is not a problem of physics, but of ethics. It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man. What frightens us is not the explosive power of the atom bomb, but the equally explosive powers of human personalities.

"Man's skills have outstripped his morals. His engineering has leaped ahead of his wisdom. We cannot cancel or call back his scientific advance, but we can and must, if the world is to survive, help man to catch up. In God's name, if you still believe in God ... We must somehow get control of what science has given the world, or else we shall perish." - Albert Einstein