After pestilences the next sign listed in Luke is great signs in the Sky

[Bobby Jo]

We all will find out I guess when we are in it. ....

We ARE "IN IT" and there ain't no Tribulation era "rapture". -- GOD removes the wicked, not the righteous:

Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 There will be two women grinding together; one will be taken and the other left.” 37 And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”​

Eagles/Vultures, -- same thing; and we're almost 24 months into the 42 month Tribulation according to Scripture.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

The actual great tribulation is only in that seven-year period of the very end. ...

You don't know Dan. 9. If you obeyed the angel (12:4 & 9), then you might have a START.

Bobby Jo

 

[dad]

Oh you can be certain that you won't be sleeping. That earthquake will certainly wake everyone the hell on up.

If the quake is one of the signs of the very end, then it won't wake believers up...they will be gone. So it depends on what quake you are talking about. For example, the quake in the very end that kills thousands near Jerusalem I think it was, will be long after the Rapture.

There are tons of examples you can use throughout history as signs for the first five seals. Nations rising, conquering, falling, wars, plagues, famines, economies crashing, believers dying for the testimony of Jesus, etc.

No. There are none! Because the signs that mark the time of the great tribulation would be over and done in seven years! If it happened long ago that was not it.

Will it all come to a crescendo preceding the Day of the Lord?

If I recall the day of the Lord is a term for the final years.

Perhaps, but as things get worse, there will be further attempts to consolidate power from nations into economic trade unions, which will only be sped up especially after the Day of the Lord.

Not sure what you think this day of the Lord is. Define it?

Satan and his cronies never lets a good crises go to waste. The first four trumpets in particular are shining examples of crises situations that will certainly be used to their advantage to the fullest extent.

God will use that time also.

You can get more done with ten years of crises and turmoil than you can with ten years of peace and stability. This is why their motto is 'order out of chaos'. Whether that chaos be real or manufactured, doesn't matter to Satan.

Whatever they want/think/do doesn't matter! God sets the time. God is in control.

 

[dad]

We ARE "IN IT" and there ain't no Tribulation era "rapture". -- GOD removes the wicked, not the righteous:

Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 There will be two women grinding together; one will be taken and the other left.” 37 And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”​

Eagles/Vultures, -- same thing; and we're almost 24 months into the 42 month Tribulation according to Scripture.
Bobby Jo

He disposes of their bodies at the very end when He comes back and defeats them. We come back with Him.

 

[dad]

You don't know Dan. 9. If you obeyed the angel (12:4 & 9), then you might have a START.

Bobby Jo

Yes I do know Dan 9. The words are sealed until we reach the end. The actual Great Tribulation is 3 1/2 years.

 

[prism]

Simple. The early church had persecutions. Others in history did also. Those were before the final time of tribulation. There will also be persecutions IN the final seven years! THOSE are after the period starts. They are not interchangeable, only spaced out. some before and some during. The ones during can be counted as signs of the very end!

You seem to be making things up as you go. Matt 24 and Luke 21 are describing essentially the same events.

 

[dad]

You seem to be making things up as you go. Matt 24 and Luke 21 are describing essentially the same events.

Events, not times. There are events before the time of sorrows as well as events during that time. Many are the same events...famines etc. It seems that there are events that mark the start of the time of trouble. It doesn't matter if they are the same events that happened before. In the sequence of events mentioned in Luke, it leads right to that time of sorrows. All these together...are the beginning of that time of sorrows apparently!
It is a simple matter to harmonize the gospels here. If Matthew mentions a sign not mentioned in Luke that kicks of the time of sorrows, great! We can add it to the list.

 

[Keraz]

I'd say this is not a regular stain of any flu virus.

The IMF said we're headed into a global depression worse than the 30's.

The flu usually don't do that.

No, it isn't Covid 19 that causes economic hardship, it is the media hype and the lockdowns that the world will never fully recover from.

Plagues also happened before Jesus. Looking at the five seals we see starvation, war that takes peace from the earth, a fourth of the population being destroyed etc. Do you think this already happened?

Yes I do. The historical record has details of the terrible wars, widespread famines, shocking plagues and devastating economic disasters the world has experienced since Jesus opened the first five Seals at His Ascension.
Proved by all the Christian martyrs souls being kept under the Altar in heaven, since Stephen.

 

[Dave Watchman]

No, it isn't Covid 19 that causes economic hardship, it is the media hype and the lockdowns that the world will never fully recover from.

But it's the COVID that caused the lockdowns.

They wouldn't have done any lockdowns IF there was no COVID. There would have been nothing for the media to hype.

You do now admit that "the world will never fully recover from" the economic hardship.

So has your opinion changed since this quote from March 23?:

Are you referring to the current Covid 19 panic?
If you are, my reply is: No; it is just another plague like the many that mankind has experienced thru the ages.

Just another plague?

Would you be surprised if this is the first of the signs that the Dragon is given the power to do on behalf of the first beast?

And the next sign is the fire that he even causes to fall from heaven in the full view of men?

I though that sort of deal might be right up your alley.

Just another plague:

Not Like the Flu, Not Like Car Crashes, Not Like...

Not Like the Flu, Not Like Car Crashes, Not Like

 

[dad]

Yes I do. The historical record has details of the terrible wars, widespread famines, shocking plagues and devastating economic disasters the world has experienced since Jesus opened the first five Seals at His Ascension.
Proved by all the Christian martyrs souls being kept under the Altar in heaven, since Stephen.

This is one reason I am exploring the possibility that there are three groups of those events.
1) Quakes, wars, pestilences etc before the last seven years.
2) These same sort of signs together just prior to and marking the start of the last seven years (beginning of sorrows)
3) The same sort of events with far greater frequency and degree increasing through the seven years, especially in the last 31/2 and most especially, quickly, frequently, and severity in the very last part of this Great Tribulation.

That would mean that yes, we have had pestilences and signs in heaven and etc before. And yes, in a broad sense these also are part of the last day events.

 

[dad]

The end of the world starts whenever you all say so?

According to God the world started and ended at the same time. I guess you have the right to define your own ending.

The end of the world is not really a bible phrase. The last days, at the time of the end, in those days, etc are bible phrases.
We were in the last days in Peter's day.
I just posted this above, and it covers the issue..

"
This is one reason I am exploring the possibility that there are three groups of those events.
1) Quakes, wars, pestilences etc before the last seven years.
2) These same sort of signs together just prior to and marking the start of the last seven years (beginning of sorrows)
3) The same sort of events with far greater frequency and degree increasing through the seven years, especially in the last 31/2 and most especially, quickly, frequently, and severity in the very last part of this Great Tribulation.

That would mean that yes, we have had pestilences and signs in heaven and etc before. And yes, in a broad sense these also are part of the last day events.

 

[Bobby Jo]

He disposes of their bodies at the very end when He comes back and defeats them. We come back with Him.

You don't get it. --

If the "church" is "raptured" then why aren't they with Jesus when HE returns (Rev. 20:4-5)?

If the "dead is Christ" must be raised, and after that happens, those who are alive and remain shall be raised, -- then why are the DEAD raised at the end of the Millennial Kingdom , where those who are ALIVE AND REMAIN shall ascend to the New Jerusalem to be with the LORD forever in the air?

Stop believing the lies, and start believing Scripture,
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Yes I do know Dan 9. ...

Then you already know:

1. 9:2 says YEARS
2. The 9:2 "perceived" is not simply reading the 25th Chapter of Jeremiah (shama), but instead uses the Solomon Wisdom (biyn) -- Ref. 1 Kings 3.
3. The "going forth of the Word" is NOT from a Persian man/king, but instead a WORD directly from GOD. Ref. Young.
4. The word "weeks" is not the usual CONCISE Feminine Gender diction, but instead is the UNUSUAL INCONCISE MASCULINE Gender diction which is ONLY found in the 9th Chapter of Daniel, and not in the 10th. Ref. Young, Keil, & Kliefoth.
5. The "SEVEN" is one duration with an "ANOINTED ONE"; and the "SIXTY-TWO" is a SECOND duration with a SECOND "ANOINTED ONE".

I don't think you can even SPELL "Daniel 9":

In the book, “Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation,” John Walvoord writes regarding the interpretation of the seventy “weeks:”

“... Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”[1]

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[2]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[3]


[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] IBID, p. 217
[3] IBID, p. 218​

Bobby Jo

 

[Timtofly]

No, it isn't Covid 19 that causes economic hardship, it is the media hype and the lockdowns that the world will never fully recover from.

Yes I do. The historical record has details of the terrible wars, widespread famines, shocking plagues and devastating economic disasters the world has experienced since Jesus opened the first five Seals at His Ascension.
Proved by all the Christian martyrs souls being kept under the Altar in heaven, since Stephen.

Technically this time around the depression may not be money.

This time around it is the run on food. Not banks.

All this food stockpiled (at home) may be a mistake. Keeping it at the stores like normal may have been better, but we shall see.

 

[Timtofly]

The end of the world is not really a bible phrase. The last days, at the time of the end, in those days, etc are bible phrases.
We were in the last days in Peter's day.
I just posted this above, and it covers the issue..

"
This is one reason I am exploring the possibility that there are three groups of those events.
1) Quakes, wars, pestilences etc before the last seven years.
2) These same sort of signs together just prior to and marking the start of the last seven years (beginning of sorrows)
3) The same sort of events with far greater frequency and degree increasing through the seven years, especially in the last 31/2 and most especially, quickly, frequently, and severity in the very last part of this Great Tribulation.

That would mean that yes, we have had pestilences and signs in heaven and etc before. And yes, in a broad sense these also are part of the last day events.

There are three groups of judgments, but you have to look at each judgment separate. Calling a type of judgment as your definition of group is backward.

Name the judgment. Then see what happens in each judgment.

Logically 3 judgments 3 types of humanity.

Nations.
Jacob's descendants (Israel)
The church (body of Christ)

Work with these 3 judgments and when all the signs or tribulation actions are going on it each judgment and keep separate time frames. Then Revelation will work itself out.

 

[dad]

You don't get it. --

If the "church" is "raptured" then why aren't they with Jesus when HE returns (Rev. 20:4-5)?

They are. He comes with His saints and angels.

You see, the souls who were beheaded in heaven do not sit around heaven with no heads forever! Just like the Lamb that was slain is not lying in a tomb in heaven. That just tells us something about them.

If the "dead is Christ" must be raised, and after that happens, those who are alive and remain shall be raised, -- then why are the DEAD raised at the end of the Millennial Kingdom , where those who are ALIVE AND REMAIN shall ascend to the New Jerusalem to be with the LORD forever in the air?

The dead are raised after the thousand years. Not the believers who have been reigning with Jesus though! They have been alive and well and in their eternal bodies. The judment of believers is when Jesus returns and is a matter of rewards. The judment of the unsaved is after the thousand years.

 

[dad]

Then you already know:

1. 9:2 says YEARS
2. The 9:2 "perceived" is not simply reading the 25th Chapter of Jeremiah (shama), but instead uses the Solomon Wisdom (biyn) -- Ref. 1 Kings 3.
3. The "going forth of the Word" is NOT from a Persian man/king, but instead a WORD directly from GOD. Ref. Young.
4. The word "weeks" is not the usual CONCISE Feminine Gender diction, but instead is the UNUSUAL INCONCISE MASCULINE Gender diction which is ONLY found in the 9th Chapter of Daniel, and not in the 10th. Ref. Young, Keil, & Kliefoth.
5. The "SEVEN" is one duration with an "ANOINTED ONE"; and the "SIXTY-TWO" is a SECOND duration with a SECOND "ANOINTED ONE".

I don't think you can even SPELL "Daniel 9":

In the book, “Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation,” John Walvoord writes regarding the interpretation of the seventy “weeks:”

“... Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”[1]

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[2]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[3]


[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] IBID, p. 217
[3] IBID, p. 218​

Bobby Jo

Not sure what your point here is supposed to be. Dan nine gave the years till Jesus was to come, as well as the years till the building of the city and wall of Jerualem I seem to recall. It also gave a seven year period at the very end that would mark the bringing in of eternity andd His kingdom (everlasting righteousness)

Have you some point on these?

 

[Bobby Jo]

If the "church" is "raptured" then why aren't they with Jesus when HE returns (Rev. 20:4-5)?

They are. He comes with His saints and angels.

Rev. 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.​

You say the "raptured church" is with the MARTYRED? -- You are INCORRECT.


Please stop promulgating the LIES,
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Have you some point on these?

No. Please go along your way, parroting the lies. You have all the "truth" you can handle.

Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[dad]

Logically 3 judgments 3 types of humanity.

Nations.
Jacob's descendants (Israel)
The church (body of Christ)

Work with these 3 judgments and when all the signs or tribulation actions are going on it each judgment and keep separate time frames. Then Revelation will work itself out.

The start of the time of sorrows does not mention these groups. The judgment is for the wicked. That time of judgment comes at the appointed time. We do not know what the time is for the beginning of these last seven years or therefore, the last 3 1/2 years either. The final period is known as the time of Jacob's trouble. We do know that He deals with Israel in that final time. (as well as billions of people that come to believe in Jesus at that time). The church is in heaven at this time.