Are Protestants "saved? "

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Yehren

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Yeah, well, I sort of agree, but what I was asking was how does faith explicitly relate to those scriptures you quoted? After all, they only speak of works... Where's the faith?

James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
 

Brakelite

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James 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
Yes, no argument. But you are missing what I am asking if you. You posted a series of scriptures referencing things we must do in order to be saved. Not one of them mentioned faith. So, I'm asking, how does faith relate to those scriptures... To the works they speak of? Are faith and works sitting on separate parallel lines, or are they intertwined on the one line? How do they relate to one another spiritually? How does justification work... Is it one or the other... Both... And why?
 

marks

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Goes deeper that that my friend. Apocalyptic scripture isn't just shoot Jews. It's global. That double application is localised in the OT, to Jerusalem, but globally applying to all God's people... The church... In the NT. And it isnt the only prophecy that can apply in that fashion.
How do you know that?

I mean, I believe that God controls whether we live or die. But the vision Ezekiel saw was then, about them, the residents of Jerusalem. God was showing him something.

There is the seal of the Holy Spirit that we receive. The Jews will later, 144,000 of them, receive a seal from God on their foreheads. That will exempt them from the locust things from the pit.

When you say, "apocalyptic scripture", are you then referring to the genre known as "Hebrew Apocalyptic"?

Mostly I'm interested in, what is the foundation to say that while is speaks of Jerusalem, it actually refers to others as well?

Much love!
 

Yehren

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Yes, no argument. But you are missing what I am asking if you. You posted a series of scriptures referencing things we must do in order to be saved. Not one of them mentioned faith.

Hmm... I looked up what Jesus said was required for salvation and showed you that. You sure He didn't mention faith? Given His admonition to do what the Good Samaritan did, I'm thinking maybe "faith" doesn't mean the same thing to Him, that it means to a lot of people today.

IIRC, Jesus is recorded as having cited two people for their great faith. One was a Roman centurion, and the other was a Canaanite woman.

Two pagans. What does that suggest to you?
 

marks

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People use their faith for a variety of reasons...chief of which is for self-preservation.
That's not faith though.

Christian faith is a real thing defined by God. Call something faith, and then define how you please, but that's not Biblical and saving faith. Its just a another self-deception. Of which abound many.
 
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Brakelite

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Hmm... I looked up what Jesus said was required for salvation and showed you that. You sure He didn't mention faith? Given His admonition to do what the Good Samaritan did, I'm thinking maybe "faith" doesn't mean the same thing to Him, that it means to a lot of people today.

IIRC, Jesus is recorded as having cited two people for their great faith. One was a Roman centurion, and the other was a Canaanite woman.

Two pagans. What does that suggest to you?
The impression I'm getting from you is you don't understand the relationship between faith and works. You don't seem to understand that neither faith nor works stand independently from one another. They are interdependent. The kind of works required by God and the faith needed to accomplish those works cannot exist without the other. So posting scriptures that inform us of the necessity of doing good works as evidence that we are justified by works and not faith alone does not explain how the two cooperate and harmonise one with the other. That is what I am trying to challenge you to explain. How that harmonious relationship between faith works operates.
 

Yehren

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The impression I'm getting from you is you don't understand the relationship between faith and works. You don't seem to understand that neither faith nor works stand independently from one another.

That was my whole point. You missed it that time. Notice that "faith" isn't what a lot of people think it is. They confuse it with intellectual assent of God. That's not it, or those pagans wouldn't have had the great faith that Jesus noticed in them. Some of the "faith only" people say that if one has faith, then works will follow. Which is a good point; but it's a clear admission that one needs more than merely acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

When you understand how those pagans had great faith that so impressed Jesus, then you will understand the relationship between faith and works.
 
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