Truth is not relative

[bbyrd009]

funny to me that we suggest truth is not relative, when we cannot state a single irrelative "truth," according to the definition of the term? "Truth" is that thing we do not want to hear most imo, but dont let Him speak to us again or we will die!

 

[justbyfaith]

One irrelative truth that you can count on is John 3:16.

 

[bbyrd009]

The fact

i think whatever you believe right now is fine, mary, as long as you are sincere about it

 

[bbyrd009]

One irrelative truth that you can count on is John 3:16.

yet i would argue that what we hear in that is not at all what is meant, regardless of the fact that you cannot provide any "subjective evidence" of that anyway
wadr

 

[justbyfaith]

i think whatever you believe right now is fine, mary, as long as you are sincere about it

Many people will be in hell who were sincerely wrong.

 

[justbyfaith]

yet i would argue that what we hear in that is not at all what is meant, regardless of the fact that you cannot provide any "subjective evidence" of that anyway
wadr

2Co 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

 

[justbyfaith]

wadr--"what a dumb revelation"?

 

[Mike Waters]

Many people will be in hell who were sincerely wrong.

Which 'Hell' is that?
Gehenna, Hades, or Tartarus?

 

[FollowHim]

2Jo 1:2, For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
.
.
Jhn 14:6, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Col 1:27, To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
.
.
Col 3:16, Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.



I agree. If someone, in their heart, is harboring sin, it will affect their theology for the worse.

There is a funny thing I realised about my phrase, truth exists but it exists outside ourselves.
In faith this is actually not true, as Jesus is the truth and He lives in us through His word and the Holy Spirit.

But in the sense can we know truth is truth, and the answer is only by faith.
Philosophers tried to prove God from first principles and from our own personal consciousness.
Unfortunately everything is based on experiential ideas and constructs, which rely on external information and facts.
Everything is filtered through our senses, and our brains take all the input and give us an interpretation of reality.
It means no matter how certain we are, it is all founded on limited physical interactions and assumptions.

Now one could say this is very cynical, but I would answer pragmatic optimism. We optimistically believe the facts are true, and therefor can draw reasonable conclusions on which to base our lives, understanding this is pragmatic optimism.

The reason I say this Nietche ended up saying God was dead, but what he actually could only mean is the absolute God that could be proved without assumption was dead. But what he neglected to continue to say is that this is true of everything we experience, ie. there is no absolute certainty but pragmatic optimism. He also left out the cynicism and purposelessness destroys the soul, as we are grounded in love and meaning from our family and social contacts. So we need pragmatic optimism, which works and is as meaningful as absolute truth, because through it we can find God who is the absolute truth.

God has created this world, so that the key to life is in seeing how grounded we are in love, and to choose this love and life to continue within. Jesus went so far as to say those people so grounded will listen to Him, because He is love and He is from the Father.

I blame scientific believers who thought they could prove God through science, and found out that science told a more complex story, and even their convictions needed to be based on love and faith, not factual certainty. The more we have discovered the more we know this universe could only exist if it had been created. Unfortunately unbelief has gripped scientists that God must not be the solution, there must be infinite multi verses, and creation must echo eternally. All this is pure religious speculation beyond science, but they would rather create a religion of science than explore the creator who made everything.

And equally believers often claim to follow the truth, but are too scared to explore this in the wider world. There are answers, but certainly not as the world dictates or projects. The law of God is stunning, written 3,400 years ago still speaks to us today. God bless you

 

[justbyfaith]

Which 'Hell' is that?
Gehenna, Hades, or Tartarus?

I'm pretty certain that all three are referring to the same fate: of everlasting punishment (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46).

 

[Philip James]

Because this is the Catholic argument: it's not up to an individual to interpret scripture, but God's appointed Church.

Hello Jane_Doe,

That's not so. Here us a good article that I hope clears it up for you: The Limits of Scripture Interpretation

Peace be with you!

 

[bbyrd009]

so papal bulls dont exist now, right

Many people will be in hell who were sincerely wrong.

if you dig a pit for others to fall into...

 

[bbyrd009]

2Co 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

Many people will be in hell who were sincerely wrong.

9For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! 10Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. 11For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away.

oops

wadr--"what a dumb revelation"?

ha, maybe huh

 

[bbyrd009]

There is a funny thing I realised about my phrase, truth exists but it exists outside ourselves.
In faith this is actually not true, as Jesus is the truth and He lives in us through His word and the Holy Spirit.

But in the sense can we know truth is truth, and the answer is only by faith.
Philosophers tried to prove God from first principles and from our own personal consciousness.
Unfortunately everything is based on experiential ideas and constructs, which rely on external information and facts.
Everything is filtered through our senses, and our brains take all the input and give us an interpretation of reality.
It means no matter how certain we are, it is all founded on limited physical interactions and assumptions.

Now one could say this is very cynical, but I would answer pragmatic optimism. We optimistically believe the facts are true, and therefor can draw reasonable conclusions on which to base our lives, understanding this is pragmatic optimism.

The reason I say this Nietche ended up saying God was dead, but what he actually could only mean is the absolute God that could be proved without assumption was dead. But what he neglected to continue to say is that this is true of everything we experience, ie. there is no absolute certainty but pragmatic optimism. He also left out the cynicism and purposelessness destroys the soul, as we are grounded in love and meaning from our family and social contacts. So we need pragmatic optimism, which works and is as meaningful as absolute truth, because through it we can find God who is the absolute truth.

God has created this world, so that the key to life is in seeing how grounded we are in love, and to choose this love and life to continue within. Jesus went so far as to say those people so grounded will listen to Him, because He is love and He is from the Father.

I blame scientific believers who thought they could prove God through science, and found out that science told a more complex story, and even their convictions needed to be based on love and faith, not factual certainty. The more we have discovered the more we know this universe could only exist if it had been created. Unfortunately unbelief has gripped scientists that God must not be the solution, there must be infinite multi verses, and creation must echo eternally. All this is pure religious speculation beyond science, but they would rather create a religion of science than explore the creator who made everything.

And equally believers often claim to follow the truth, but are too scared to explore this in the wider world. There are answers, but certainly not as the world dictates or projects. The law of God is stunning, written 3,400 years ago still speaks to us today. God bless you

i would argue that scientists are proving Yah through science, as there is nothing else to prove, even if a scientist would not put it that way? Any theories one has that are not true will not stand up anyway right.

And imo there is a pretty good case to be made that it is religion that is screwing up science, not the other way around

 

[justbyfaith]

so papal bulls dont exist now, right

if you dig a pit for others to fall into...

Yes, the Lord Jesus did go to hell on our behalf (in our place, if we believe in Him).

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, the Lord Jesus did go to hell on our behalf (in our place, if we believe in Him).

but you didnt Quote that, wadr bc it is surely not true, and believing will not make it so.
You might note the level of certainty you are exhibiting? See someone who can hear knows what that means right off ok

 

[justbyfaith]

but you didnt Quote that, wadr bc it is surely not true, and believing will not make it so

It most certainly is true, if you accept the authority of the word of God (and I would point you to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 in it).

 

[bbyrd009]

It most certainly is true, if you accept the authority of the word of God (and I would point you to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 in it).

ok well i guess this is pointless, but you could try to point out "hell" in that passage if you like
and then we'll see who accepts i guess
although wadr the "most certainly" really says all i need to know already, see

 

[justbyfaith]

ok well i guess this is pointless, but you could try to point out "hell" in that passage if you like

Not necessarily in that passage.

More aptly in Matthew 12:40.

Which is to say that in dying for our sins (in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) His soul went into hell (the heart of the earth) where He went and preached to the spirits in prison. I'm certain that He experienced the heat of being in that place (though likely, the Father protected Him from the pain of that heat); but the full punishment for our sins was taken unto the moment that Jesus spoke the words "Te Telestai" ("It is finished").

 

[bbyrd009]

Not necessarily in that passage.

More aptly in Matthew 12:40.

Which is to say that in dying for our sins (in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) His soul went into hell (the heart of the earth) where He went and preached to the spirits in prison. I'm certain that He experienced the heat of being in that place (though likely, the Father protected Him from the pain of that heat); but the full punishment for our sins was taken unto the moment that Jesus spoke the words "Te Telestai" ("It is finished").

ok, ty

(No son of man may die for another's sins