The Jesuits ... What is their role? Part 1 and 2

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Enoch111

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However, I must also note that said education came from the victors, the Catholic Church itself, so cannot in all fairness to those thousands of victims ( the entire city of Toulouse decimated), be considered an unbiased or impartial witness. Do you have any evidence from reliable independent sources at to the beliefs and practices if those people?
This is the real issue. The Catholic Church has been labeling genuine Christians as heretics ever since its inception. Every article on the Albigensians and Cathari calls them heretics. But we do not see any of their teachings from original sources to confirm that what is said about them is true. At the same time the RCC called all Reformers heretics, but we know from their writings that the exact opposite was the case.

But the teachings of the RCC regarding salvation are even more heretical since sacramentalism and sacerdotalism are not taught in the Bible. They are purely man-made inventions.

Even the crusades against the Albigensians were a expression of the false Catholic teaching that the crusaders were expressing their penitence and receiving indulgences because they were killing heretics! You will not find that teaching in the New Testament. Not to mention the land grab that was behind the crusades in France.
 
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RogerDC

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I always find it Funny, how one one hand Catholics Boast of being the oldest Christian Church...and on the other hand when someone brings up Undesirable Things that have occurred Within Leadership through centuries of the Catholic Church...:
The response by a Catholic is Always:
"That's rubbish...OR...you are a hater".

You should take a step into Reality...the Catholic Leadership is not immune to Flaws.

Discussion of Catholic Flawed Leadership does not MAKE a person a hater! :rolleyes:
All Catholics are sinners, so they are prone to weaknesses and errors. The mistakes and sins of certain Catholics don't prove that the Catholic Church is not what she claims to be - ie, the one, true Church founded by Jesus Christ, whose doctrines are the infallible word of God.
 

RogerDC

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You might be shocked if you found out what the Cathars actually believed. They didn't think people should have children. Marriage was forbidden then. Catholics sometimes said (who knows if it's true) that the men had gay sex with each other.

They also didn't believe in the resurrection.
In that case, the Cathars weren't even Christians - just some idiotic cult that was not of God and deserved extinction.
 

RogerDC

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And once again - these were matters of STATE - not Rome. The actual numbers of deaths during the 400 years of the Inquisitions total about 4000, which is a FAR cry from the "millions" reported by anti-Catholics.
I remember reading a Protestant claim that the Inquisition killed 90 million!!! Absolutely hilarious. No doubt there are folks out there who believe this absurd figure. Satan is the father of lies.
 

RogerDC

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As well as Bill Clinton and numerous other political leaders. One has to be fairly blind not to see the implications... If you understand Jesuit education.
What are "the implications"?

What do you understand about "Jesuit education"?
 

Brakelite

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All Catholics are sinners, so they are prone to weaknesses and errors. The mistakes and sins of certain Catholics don't prove that the Catholic Church is not what she claims to be - ie, the one, true Church founded by Jesus Christ, whose doctrines are the infallible word of God.
What you do not realise, and what Catholics here are afraid to admit, is that those "certain Catholics who 'sinned' (which in the case of some that word sin would be a euphemism surely) is that those crusades and inquisitions and persecutions and genocide were not the work of two or three misguided zealots, but were in fact the work of genuine card carrying bona fide Catholic clergy with life memberships and honorary doctorates in hate and destruction carrying out Catholic policy in full obedience to papal instruction.
What do you think of Cardinal Spellman's personal crusade in the Vietnam war that cost thousands of American lives as well as Australian and New Zealand, and cost the American tax payer millions of dollars and a divided society still reverberating around the world today? A misguided zealot? Or carrying out church policy according to papal tradition?
 

mjrhealth

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Because by pointing out falsehoods re the Catholic Church, you are opposing Satan and obstructing his polluted river of lies. So just stop it!
Oh when God opens the eyes of the blind, so much pride and arrogance amongst the religious, hoping there religion will save them.

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

You join yourself to a harlot you get her diseases.
 

Giuliano

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In that case, the Cathars weren't even Christians - just some idiotic cult that was not of God and deserved extinction.
A rather extreme view. But there was no need to kill them since they didn't have children. They probably would have disappeared over time if left alone.
 

Brakelite

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What are "the implications"?

What do you understand about "Jesuit education"?
Basically Jesuit education is based upon the premise of global dominion, and educating society to accept globalism. Europe and US are the people targets. And it's working.
What do you know of Jesuit history? Did u you know that the church banned the Jesuit society in the 1700s? Then the Jesuits helped foment the French revolution and used the Napoleonic wars to gain control of the Vatican, capture the pope, throw him in jail at Avignon until he reinstated the Jesuits at the Treaty of Verona in 1822?
There's more to the Jesuits than commonly known. Their plans for a one world Catholic religion is well under way. Ever heard of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin ? Robert Mueller? Work out the connections.
 
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Illuminator

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Now that is an interesting statement. I think it's worth dissecting a little.
Your amusement at the situation aside, the inference that your opinion ought to be acknowledged on the grounds of a superior education is noted.
That the beliefs of the Cathars and Albigenses were heresy because your opinion is educated... Noted. However, I must also note that said education came from the victors, the Catholic Church itself, so cannot in all fairness to those thousands of victims ( the entire city of Toulouse decimated), be considered an unbiased or impartial witness. Do you have any evidence from reliable independent sources at to the beliefs and practices if those people? It must also be noted that if marriage and the birth of children was so frowned upon, why bother killing them? One generation and they would self immolate would they not? Anyway, back to your post... To your inference that there are some who think those purported heresies are in actual fact, Christian beliefs. Please cite just one example of a person claiming that pregnancy is a great evil and a Christian concept.
Albigenses: Beliefs and Practices

Officially known as heretics, they were actually Cathari , Provençal adherents of a doctrine similar to the Manichaean dualistic system of material evil and spiritual good (see Manichaeism ; Bogomils ). They held the coexistence of these two principles, represented by God and the Evil One, light and dark, the soul and the body, the next life and this life, peace and war, and the like. They believed that Jesus only seemed to have a human body.

The Albigenses were extremely ascetic, abstaining from flesh in all its forms, including milk and cheese. They comprised two classes, believers and Perfect, the former much more numerous, making up a catechumenate not bound by the stricter rules observed by the Perfect. The Perfect were those who had received the sacrament of consolamentum, a kind of laying on of hands. The Albigenses held their clergy in high regard. An occasional practice was suicide, preferably by starvation; for if this life is essentially evil, its end is to be hastened.

They had enthusiasm for proselytizing and preached vigorously. This fact partly accounted for their success, for at that time preaching was unknown in ordinary parish life. In the practice of asceticism as well, the contrast between local clergy and the Albigenses was helpful to the new sect.

https://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/religion/other/misc/albigenses/beliefs-and-practices

NOT A CATHOLIC SOURCE.

Albigensians believed in a dualist philosophy. In this philosophy, the universe was clearly divided into two Gods or forces. One of these was the force of evil, namely Satan, who represented all that was chaotic and material in the world. Consequently, the world and the humans were also believed to have been created by Satan.

In contrast, the good God was free from the taints of material and carnal manifestations. More simply, the Albigensians held the God of the Old Testament as the Satan and that of the New Testament as the good God. They also opposed all violence and warfare, and believed that inside the essentially evil human bodies, the spirits of the angels dwelled who were trapped in their flesh cages.

The Albigensians disagreed with the Catholic Church on many vital points. Among these was their belief that the eucharist was not the body of the Christ. They also did not believe in the practice of baptism by water. This latter was apparently because they believed that water, as material, was essentially a manifestation of the power of evil...

...in the early 13th century, Pope Innocent III attempted to diminish the influence of the Albigensians, also called Cathars, in the regions of southern France. His diplomatic efforts met with little success and one of his papal legates participating in them was murdered. He then took up the cause of a Crusade against the Albigensians and was successful in persuading the leading French nobles to support it.

http://www.medievalchronicles.com/medieval-life/medieval-religion/albigensians/

NOT A CATHOLIC SOURCE

Celibacy for perfecti – celibacy was also encouraged generally since it was thought that every person born was just another poor soul trapped by the devil in a body. Marriage overall was discouraged.

  • Suicide (known as the ritual of endura) as a rational and dignified response under certain conditions.
Earlier heresies such as Arianism, while still condemned, at least adhered to the same essential dogma of the Church; the Cathars rejected and repudiated every aspect of the Church, including most of the books of the Bible. Scholar Malcolm Barber notes:

They believed that the devil was the author of the Old Testament except these books: Job, the Psalms, the books of Solomon [Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon], The Book of Jesus son of Sirach [better known as the Book of Ecclesiasticus], of Isaiah, Ezekiel, David, and of the twelve prophets. (93)​
Cathars
NOT A CATHOLIC SOURCE

brokelite, you want to call these heretics Christians, go ahead. You offer NO sources other than the standard hate propaganda and false histories your sect is well known for.
 
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BreadOfLife

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I remember reading a Protestant claim that the Inquisition killed 90 million!!! Absolutely hilarious. No doubt there are folks out there who believe this absurd figure. Satan is the father of lies.
Yup.

Modern scholars estimate that there weren't even 90 million people in ALL of Europe during this time. So the Inquisition would have wiped out the entire continent - and then some . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Does God judge in collectives?
No - anti-Catholics do.

You guys claim that Christ's Church failed (which means HE lied) - ALL because there were some bad guys in the Church, which he warned about (Matt. 7:15-20).
 

BreadOfLife

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Now that is an interesting statement. I think it's worth dissecting a little.
Your amusement at the situation aside, the inference that your opinion ought to be acknowledged on the grounds of a superior education is noted.
That the beliefs of the Cathars and Albigenses were heresy because your opinion is educated... Noted. However, I must also note that said education came from the victors, the Catholic Church itself, so cannot in all fairness to those thousands of victims ( the entire city of Toulouse decimated), be considered an unbiased or impartial witness. Do you have any evidence from reliable independent sources at to the beliefs and practices if those people? It must also be noted that if marriage and the birth of children was so frowned upon, why bother killing them? One generation and they would self immolate would they not? Anyway, back to your post... To your inference that there are some who think those purported heresies are in actual fact, Christian beliefs. Please cite just one example of a person claiming that pregnancy is a great evil and a Christian concept.
I never said that killing that Cathar and Albigensian heretics was the "right" thing to do. Howvere - these were matters of STATE.

As for the veracity of the fact about their teachings - this is a matter of HISTORY, not "Catholic conspiracy" . . .
 

Taken

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All Catholics are sinners,

Active in Committing SIN ?

The mistakes and sins of certain Catholics don't prove that the Catholic Church is not what she claims to be - ie, the one, true Church founded by Jesus Christ, whose doctrines are the infallible word of God.

No one to my knowledge has made that Claim.

* What an Individual Does is One thing, Accounted to "that" Individual.

* What The Catholic Church has Established as its "Mission Statement" (so to speak) AND Its "Doctrine"... is an entirely different thing.

There are people Who Disagree With Beliefs and Behaviors of many People...
(Whether or not they are Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, or whatever).

And there are People who Disagree with Religious "Statements of Faith, Mission Statements, and Particular Church Doctrines"

Personally, I do not Agree with Your Catholic perspective Statement, that:
The Catholic Church is the One True Church...
Or
The Catholic Church was FOUNDED "BY" Jesus.
Or
That your Catholic Doctrine is LIMITED to the Teachings and DOCTRINE of the Word of God.

Can you answer my question please?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

BreadOfLife

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This is the real issue. The Catholic Church has been labeling genuine Christians as heretics ever since its inception. Every article on the Albigensians and Cathari calls them heretics. But we do not see any of their teachings from original sources to confirm that what is said about them is true. At the same time the RCC called all Reformers heretics, but we know from their writings that the exact opposite was the case.

But the teachings of the RCC regarding salvation are even more heretical since sacramentalism and sacerdotalism are not taught in the Bible. They are purely man-made inventions.

Even the crusades against the Albigensians were a expression of the false Catholic teaching that the crusaders were expressing their penitence and receiving indulgences because they were killing heretics! You will not find that teaching in the New Testament. Not to mention the land grab that was behind the crusades in France.
Anybody who knows Christ recognizes immediately that BOTH the Cathars and Albigensians were heretical sects.

ONLY a person who is devoid of the epignosis of Christ would believe their perversions to be "genuine" Christianity.
You would have to believe as THEY did that:
- ALL matter is evil.
- ALL marriage is evil.
- Procreation is evil.
- Fornication is allowed as long as it is NOT for procreation.

This is NOT genuine Christianity - but a counterfeit abomination.
Hope that works for you . . .
 
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quietthinker

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No - anti-Catholics do.

You guys claim that Christ's Church failed (which means HE lied) - ALL because there were some bad guys in the Church, which he warned about (Matt. 7:15-20).
BOL, your vision of the history of the Christian movement is incredibly restricted......it is evidenced by the statements you liberally post.
It is clear to me and no doubt to others also that your burden is justifying the RCC using the age-old method of demonising any who disagree with you.

If your burden were that of aspiring to be a champion of truth your approach, your language, your attitude would reflect a disposition you are not now familiar with.
 

BreadOfLife

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BOL, your vision of the history of the Christian movement is incredibly restricted......it is evidenced by the statements you liberally post.
It is clear to me and no doubt to others also that your burden is justifying the RCC using the age-old method of demonising any who disagree with you.

If your burden were that of aspiring to be a champion of truth your approach, your language, your attitude would reflect a disposition you are not now familiar with.
I haven't "demonized" anybody for simply "disagreeing” with me.
That in itself is FAR more dishonest that anything you can accuse me of.

No - I only expose you guys when you lie about the Catholic Church and revise history.
So, instead of becoming indignant when you’re exposed – just STOP lying . . .
 

quietthinker

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I haven't "demonized" anybody for simply "disagreeing” with me.
That in itself is FAR more dishonest that anything you can accuse me of.

No - I only expose you guys when you lie about the Catholic Church and revise history.
So, instead of becoming indignant when you’re exposed – just STOP lying . . .
You twist the terms, you elevate yourself and your perceived role, you tell others what they should be doing and believing and even your your signature statement by Chesterton reveals your wiring......yet you are oblivious to all of this.

In your own eyes you are a crusader for all that is right and fair and deception is something that others indulge in.
Yours is the signature of a religious zealot and I would not doubt that if you had the power you would enthusiastically walk in the shoes of your forefathers actions whose history you deny.......but not forgotten by those on the receiving end.
 
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