The Lord's Side (Remaining neutral and non partisan)

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Agios

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It isnt to us to say and if you carefully read what I wrote this morning, you will see that I wasn't putting anyone down. It was Jesus who said about Martha that she was worried about many things and that Mary had chosen the better part. I'm sure Mary got up and did later whatever she could to help others in her own power. If she saw someone hungry or cold or in need, I think she would have helped them if it was in her power to do so. And you would see that I also said Mary's should be thankful for marthas. But seeking and knocking for the higher calling that is a walk in the power of God is not evil just as righteous men are not evil. To say that someone who doesnt vote because they know it is God and not men who set rulers in place is the problem is wanting them to do exactly as you do and become entangled in politics when God isnt calling them to that.

I saw this story in the railing against a person who has chosen not to get caught up in the world by not voting or killing in war. It's like a martha chiding a mary to go vote and involve herself in politics when she sees men dont control what they think they do or chiding her that she must get up and cook food and serve when she was choosing the better part of serving her Lord when He was before her.

Who is to say which is more important, to vote to try to get men in office to fix things, or to quietly help whoever you see is in need across your path when you can, but to leave behind mens political systems because you leave the setting up of leaders to God?

I dont know if I am being clear enough but i do think the man i was talking with understood me that I was saying, leave room and dont try to decide what all men must do.
I do understand what you are saying and agree, my thought was a balance.

So true, I have learned we tend to take what God has not given us and we do what God has not told us to do (like touching a hot stove). Painful but we remember. Ha There appears to be a man made burden on both sides, trying to fix what is not ours to fix or not fixing that which we should be fixing. Doing what we are not called to do and if we don't do this or that, both sides have issues with the other. lol

Messed up for sure.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I understand what you're saying. And, I usually do leave room. It is only when I feel I am forced into a shrinking room that I fire back.

And if you read the first two sentences of this thread, you will see it leaves no room for anyone else save those who declare themselves 'neutral and 'non-partisan'.

"A true Christian does not take sides with anything to do with the world or the flesh. We who walk with God and serve are to remain non-partisan...neutral."

Stranger

Just like with the bible as you have to determine what is being spoken of, is it righteousness or holiness, so you dont get hopelessly confused, you have to determine is someone speaking of the righteousness men can do in their own power or are they speaking of something further or a racing to attain to something further?

Dont let anything someone says make you feel you are being pushed into a shrinking room. God does not force men to give up everything to follow Him and He doesnt force anyone into something they are not yet able to bear.

You know, it says of the apostles that some men respected them but refused to join in with them after they saw what happened to ananais and saphira. Those men feared God. They were not evil men. But they were not ready to join in with the apostles when they saw how holy God was. I'm pretty sure I would have done the same thing as those men. But I wouldnt have dared to say a word against them. They were obviously walking in the Spirit in a power I'll be damned if I would have messed with!
 
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Stranger

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My older bro mentioned the Maverick and, so far the only thing not banged up on me is my hips!!! Haha. Shooting from the hip will take some practice but, it is doable. Thanks.

Your quite welcome. And you can always, instead of shooting from the hip, place the butt of the gun under your arm instead of in your shoulder. It provides a little more aim direction.

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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Just like with the bible as you have to determine what is being spoken of, is it righteousness or holiness, so you dont get hopelessly confused, you have to determine is someone speaking of the righteousness men can do in their own power or are they speaking of something further or a racing to attain to something further?

Dont let anything someone says make you feel you are being pushed into a shrinking room. God does not force men to give up everything to follow Him and He doesnt force anyone into something they are not yet able to bear.

You know, it says of the apostles that some men respected them but refused to join in with them after they saw what happened to ananais and saphira. Those men feared God. They were not evil men. But they were not ready to join in with the apostles when they saw how holy God was. I'm pretty sure I would have done the same thing as those men. But I wouldnt have dared to say a word against them. They were obviously walking in the Spirit in a power I'll be damned if I would have messed with!

Yes. And in all probability, that is why God killed Ananias and Sapphira. After all Barnabas had sold all his land, (Acts 4:35-37) and gave it to the apostles and would later be counted among the apostles, though not of the 12. (Acts 14:14). But he was right in his heart and purpose to join the apostle's.

Perhaps that was Ananias and Sapphira's purpose also, to join the apostles. Perhaps that is why Peter said to Ananias, "why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?" (Acts 5:4) Because they were not moved by God to join, then they made a false appearance of selling all their land. Just a thought.

And, interestingly enough, Peter is clear that they didn't have to sell the land. God was not requiring them to. (Acts 5:4). In other words if God tells one to sell all he has, doesn't mean God is telling all to sell all they have. And the one who gave all, is no any more spiritual then the one who God didn't tell.

Stranger
 

Josho

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God is not on the side of any political Party, yet we do know that if you are not with Christ, you are against Him!

The Democrats were literally booing God at the 2012 Convention during the invocation. They support sexual perversion, racism, theft from the rich (and not so rich), Illegal Aliens, and Infanticide, they want to change the Constitution, suppress freedom of speech and what can be said in a Church. This is their Platform!

The Republicans have never booed God, oppose sexual perversion, infanticide, racism, support Law and Order, and the Constitution which provides individual Rights as those given by God. This is their Platform!

While neither is ordained of God to represent what He says, yet it is clear which one is more led by the Devil. God sets up no human Government to establish a Theocracy. Can one be a Christian and vote to defy God? Can one be a Christian and refuse to participate in preventing evil from happening, if they have a vote or say in the matter?? Perhaps, but if they don't they do so out of ignorance and a flawed sense of principle. What good are they, like salt that has lost its savor.

The right is not always right, and the left is not always right. The Republicans do some things well the Democrats don't, and the Democrats do some things well that the Republicans don't.

Supporting the poor, supporting and helping what you call "illegal aliens" (a lot of them, genuinely in search of a better life) are good things to do.

Supporting and helping those that have a lower socioeconomic status that usually grow up in the poorer parts of town, because of their racial background is also a good thing to do. If a Christian is a politician, he or she should be finding ways of how to get them out of that lower financial status and how they can be given better lives. It's not racist, it's making sure that all races have equal opportunity, and that one is not more disadvantaged than the other. It's making sure one does not go without. It's looking after one another.

Also wanting to end mass shootings is also a good thing.

Affordable healthcare is not a bad thing either, we in Australia usually get doctor appointments for free or nearly nothing, if we need the hospital urgently we can get in for free, it may not be free in the way of paying taxes, but it's better than getting a massive bill shock and ripped out of the pockets when we need it most. If that was the aim of Obama Care, affordable healthcare, then it's not a bad thing.

See why we must be neutral though, both sides of politics don't have it all right, Jesus was neither only left wing or only right wing, he had both wings.

And as Christians, if we want pro-life views to be taken more seriously, we also need to be for reducing gun-related deaths, we also need to be for saving lives during a pandemic. Every life is a life, every death is a death. From womb to the tomb or grave, from womb to old age, we should be for protecting human life.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Yes. And in all probability, that is why God killed Ananias and Sapphira. After all Barnabas had sold all his land, (Acts 4:35-37) and gave it to the apostles and would later be counted among the apostles, though not of the 12. (Acts 14:14). But he was right in his heart and purpose to join the apostle's.

Perhaps that was Ananias and Sapphira's purpose also, to join the apostles. Perhaps that is why Peter said to Ananias, "why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?" (Acts 5:4) Because they were not moved by God to join, then they made a false appearance of selling all their land. Just a thought.

And, interestingly enough, Peter is clear that they didn't have to sell the land. God was not requiring them to. (Acts 5:4). In other words if God tells one to sell all he has, doesn't mean God is telling all to sell all they have. And the one who gave all, is no any more spiritual then the one who God didn't tell.

Stranger

This is very good. :)

As far as nobody being more spiritual than another, I dont even think of it, except maybe when I marvel, beam and give thanks to God for some dead saints words He put in my hands that have helped me.

I guess you could use a different phrase than "more spiritual than me" but if I ran across a Peter or Paul, I'm pretty sure I would have been one of the men who respected them but walked away. I guess i would think not more spiritual but rather he is holy and i am not. God makes a distinction between what is holy and what is not, so just dont try to be seen as holy when you arent but just stay humble.
 
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Episkopos

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Yes. And in all probability, that is why God killed Ananias and Sapphira. After all Barnabas had sold all his land, (Acts 4:35-37) and gave it to the apostles and would later be counted among the apostles, though not of the 12. (Acts 14:14). But he was right in his heart and purpose to join the apostle's.

Perhaps that was Ananias and Sapphira's purpose also, to join the apostles. Perhaps that is why Peter said to Ananias, "why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart?" (Acts 5:4) Because they were not moved by God to join, then they made a false appearance of selling all their land. Just a thought.

And, interestingly enough, Peter is clear that they didn't have to sell the land. God was not requiring them to. (Acts 5:4). In other words if God tells one to sell all he has, doesn't mean God is telling all to sell all they have. And the one who gave all, is no any more spiritual then the one who God didn't tell.

Stranger


That's false of course. What's the point of pretending to sell all if it doesn't matter if you do or not? They INDEED wanted to appear more spiritual...but without paying the cost. They wanted to be seen as saints...among the saints.

Whether people can see it or not there is a standard of holiness before God that is NOT being met. You can't fool God. Without holiness you can't see God....or be a part of His house.

No one is forcing anyone to sell all....for the saint...or to repent and humble oneself...for the righteous. It doesn't mean it doesn't matter if you do or don't.
 

Stranger

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This is very good. :)

As far as nobody being more spiritual than another, I dont even think of it, except maybe when I marvel, beam and give thanks to God for some dead saints words He put in my hands that have helped me.

I guess you could use a different phrase than "more spiritual than me" but if I ran across a Peter or Paul, I'm pretty sure I would have been one of the men who respected them but walked away. I guess i would think not more spiritual but rather he is holy and i am not. God makes a distinction between what is holy and what is not, so just dont try to be seen as holy when you arent but just stay humble.

And, I don't believe Barnabas was trying to be 'holy' when he sold the land and gave the full price to the Church. It is what the Lord led him to do, and he wanted to do it.

Concerning 'more spiritual' or even 'more holy' I put them in that category you mention, 'humbleness'. It is an elusive trait. It is something Christians pursue but never obtain. For the moment you believe you are humble, holy, or a spiritual believer, you lose it.

We may consider a Peter or Paul as holy and spiritual, but I don't think they thought of themselves that way. If anyone could claim any kind of holiness and spirituality it would have certainly been Paul. Paul knew he was greatly used by God. (Col. 1:29)

But note Paul's view of himself as he progressed to the last days of his life.

1.) (1 Cor. 15:9) "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

2.) (Eph. 3:8) "Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given..."

3.) (1 Tim. 1:15) "...Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Paul appears to get worse and worse. The same I believe could be said of David. God called him a man after His own heart. I don't think David would have said that. David was quite a sinner also.

So anytime I see one who is greatly used by God, I also note that he is just a sinner just like me and everyone else.

Stranger
 
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Stranger

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That's false of course. What's the point of pretending to sell all if it doesn't matter if you do or not? They INDEED wanted to appear more spiritual...but without paying the cost. They wanted to be seen as saints...among the saints.

Whether people can see it or not there is a standard of holiness before God that is NOT being met. You can't fool God. Without holiness you can't see God....or be a part of His house.

No one is forcing anyone to sell all....for the saint...or to repent and humble oneself...for the righteous. It doesn't mean it doesn't matter if you do or don't.

I'm not sure what you think is false. There was no requirement for all to sell all they had and give to the church. Many did so. But there was no requirement.

(Acts 5:4) is clear that Ananias and Sapphira didn't have to sell the land and give it to the church. And, we are not even told that they 'said' they only paid this much for the land. We are just told they laid the money at the apostle's feet. (5:2)

Their sin seems to be lying by appearance. Not openly lying, but letting others assume and believe what you know they will.

Stranger
 
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stunnedbygrace

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And, I don't believe Barnabas was trying to be 'holy' when he sold the land and gave the full price to the Church. It is what the Lord led him to do, and he wanted to do it.

I agree Barnabas was not trying to "be holy." It was ananais and saphira who were trying to look good to others by lying about themselves. You dont work toward holiness/walking in the Spirit. Only God can...take a man into walking there. But He certainly wont take a liar and pretender there.
 

Stranger

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I agree Barnabas was not trying to "be holy." It was ananais and saphira who were trying to look good to others by lying about themselves. You dont work toward holiness/walking in the Spirit. Only God can...take a man into walking there. But He certainly wont take a liar and pretender there.

I agree.

Stranger
 

stunnedbygrace

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I'm not sure what you think is false.

I think it was your assertion that no man is more spiritual than another. I gather that you dont like the phrase, but truthfully, those who give up everything to follow Him are more spiritual than me. But I think it's not good to make it all about money, as if God is very concerned with money. Giving up everything is more than just money. Its giving your whole life and being into Gods hands to do with as He pleases. I mean...I'm not there, and I'm not going to pretend I'm there. But neither am I going to say no other man can be or has been there. Of course other men have been.
 
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Episkopos

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I'm not sure what you think is false. There was no requirement for all to sell all they had and give to the church. Many did so. But there was no requirement.

(Acts 5:4) is clear that Ananias and Sapphira didn't have to sell the land and give it to the church. And, we are not even told that they 'said' they only paid this much for the land. We are just told they laid the money at the apostle's feet. (5:2)

Their sin seems to be lying by appearance. Not openly lying, but letting others assume and believe what you know they will.

Stranger

Exactly. And that sin is the most prevalent one in the church today (albeit at a much lower level). Wanting to be identified with the "saved" but yet living as regular sinners.

There was a special status for saints back in the day. But today no one is a saint...because everyone is already seen as one. So the standard of holiness is no longer there. People now just want an assurance they are not going to hell....so they can back to seeking their own lives and hapiness. IOW a cultural Christianity.
 

stunnedbygrace

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To count the cost becomes way different than modern christianity makes it to be.

A good soldier is willing to give up his life for his country/kingdom.
 
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Candidus

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The right is not always right, and the left is not always right. The Republicans do some things well the Democrats don't, and the Democrats do some things well that the Republicans don't.

I would disagree. No one said that a Political Party is always right.

While the right is not always right, the left is never right.

Supporting the poor, supporting and helping what you call "illegal aliens" (a lot of them, genuinely in search of a better life) are good things to do.

No, it is evil, not "good"! Republicans voted for Civil Rights, the Democrats fought against them. Republicans do more to support the poor than Democrats do. They vote for the same social programs, yet they do even more by using these Programs as a "hand up" instead of a "hand-out." Republicans want to help people back up so they can pursue the American dream and be productive assets to society. The Democrats want to keep people poor because they need a permanent "Victim Class" to buy votes with Taxpayer money. Ever watch the Democrat Party Debates where it was a contest to see who could give away the most "Free" Stuff? (Promising to steal from those that work for what they have, so they can buy votes by giving it to those that have not earned it!)

Illegal Aliens are not U.S. Citizens, and have no right to freeload off of our Country's generosity. I do not have the right to come into your home and take advantage of you because "I want a better life"! They are "Illegal," they are Criminal Trespassers that cost the American Taxpayer $135 BILLION Dollars annually. That is theft of resources, and is not a "good thing."

Supporting and helping those that have a lower socioeconomic status that usually grow up in the poorer parts of town, because of their racial background is also a good thing to do.

It's a "good thing" to discriminate and be a Racist? Wow! Stealing from the rich (and not so rich) to give to the poor to buy votes is a virtue? Are you saying that if you are Black or Hispanic... you are Lazy, or have a Low I.Q. and are incapable of competing in the workplace, or have no initiative to get out of that situation and seek a better life? Who said that they could not move out of that part of town? Who said that if they were born there that they will always be poor and act like lawless thugs? .... The Democrats!

Also wanting to end mass shootings is also a good thing.

And, specifically "who" has ever argued that they were against stopping mass shootings? Nobody! But look at the Democrat Mayors who tell the Police to stand down while they give Black people "special status" to vandalize, loot, and commit arson with impunity!

Affordable healthcare is not a bad thing either, we in Australia usually get doctor appointments for free or nearly nothing, if we need the hospital urgently we can get in for free, it may not be free in the way of paying taxes, but it's better than getting a massive bill shock and ripped out of the pockets when we need it most. If that was the aim of Obama Care, affordable healthcare, then it's not a bad thing.

Canada has National Healthcare, and Hospitals in America we receive patients from Canada who want to live. Life-saving Healthcare Rationed by Government Employees is a losing deal. As for "Obamacare", it is not "Affordable" or even "Healthcare"! Those that had good insurance lost many of their benefits. Their costs skyrocketed! I went from a zero dollar deductible to a $5,000 deductible at more than twice the cost I was paying! My "share" for prescription drugs has quadrupled, and my co-pay has doubled! My "share" or deductible for any medical care is more, and fewer procedures are covered. I have had several endoscopies before Obamacare and I didn't pay an additional dime! The last one I had to pay the entire bill! I no longer have viable "Healthcare"... I have "Catastrophic Healthcare Insurance." Only if I have a Major Illness or Accident, it will do NOTHING for me! After paying more than Double my previous rates, I don't have $5,000 to pay!

Affordable Healthcare was never the goal of Obamacare! Obama knew that this system he created would fail miserably, and that people would cry out for a "fix." He assumed that then, and only then, would people clamor for Universal Socialized Medicine as the only viable "fix." The goal of Obamacare has always been to be a failure so that the Democrats could get control of individuals lives. "If you smoke... no healthcare for Cancer!" They can prescribe diets for those who are overweight, excessively tax or eliminate sugar and high fat products to punish what they determine to be "unhealthy." Force men to consume gender-altering, estrogen producing "soy" meats and products! This would give the Liberal Government the ability of control people by saying that "Guns cost the system too much money, therefore guns are a health crisis, therefore, no one should have guns!"

See why we must be neutral though, both sides of politics don't have it all right, Jesus was neither only left wing or only right wing, he had both wings.

You are partially correct. One Party is clearly in opposition to God and His moral precepts. On that basis alone, to say that all is "Neutral" is a false choice. God is on the side of Righteousness, Justice, and Equality. The U.S. Constitution is on the side of Individual Liberty and limited power of Government. You cannot be on the side of Righteousness and vote for Infanticide! You cannot be on the side of Equality if you encourage Racist Policies that give some people more of an edge, or special rights over others. You cannot be on the side of Justice if you excuse certain genders or races from accountability to our Laws. God is not on the side of the Democrats! He cannot be!

And as Christians, if we want pro-life views to be taken more seriously, we also need to be for reducing gun-related deaths, we also need to be for saving lives during a pandemic. Every life is a life, every death is a death. From womb to the tomb or grave, from womb to old age, we should be for protecting human life.

What then are our options? Call 911? Wait ten minutes until the police arrive to draw a chalk outline around your body?

If you take away the right to defend yourself against crime and tyranny as the Bill of Rights states, do you really believe that Criminals will give up their guns? Look at where the "problem" is most prevalent! In Democratic strongholds where guns are greatly restricted! A U.S. Soldier going through the streets of Bagdad, had less risk of getting killed than a teenager in Chicago did! I live in a Conservative State, (two years ago the State went to "Constitutional Carry," meaning that you did not need a Concealed Carry License in the State). But before that, you had to go through a class to get a Concealed Weapons Permit. The County I live in had the highest number of of Concealed Permit Holders in the entire Country!

"God created all men, Samuel Colt made them equal"

It does not matter if you are male or female, young or old, weak or strong, a Computer Geek or a Karate Instructor... you have the ability to defend yourself from an equally armed or stronger opponent. Everyone across the Country predicted that we would see chaos, the Wild, Wild West shootouts in the streets after all Government restrictions on carrying a weapon on your person was enacted. Nothing changed.

What was the difference between us and Chicago? Two things! We are not Democratic run where we employ Racist policies, buy votes with people's taxes, or seek to keep people poor and destitute so they rely on the Government. Because you never know who is armed, most people are not stupid enough to commit many strong-armed crimes. We do not foster a Culture of Racism, Class Division, or wink at pockets of Violence. This is protecting a person from the womb to the tomb!

As a Christian, the call of Christ to social action is a personal matter, not a Political one. While it is not wrong for Government and Society to care for the sick, the weak and the poor, God does not demand it of Government. Most times, Government is not the answer; it is the problem. That's why Christians
in those Countries where they are allowed to give their voice, have a moral responsibility to support Righteousness, Justice and Equality for all.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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And although it makes complete sense to give up something that is only temporary to gain something that is eternal, if anyone says it is easy, they have not given up everything as they suppose or pretend.
 
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Agios

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And although it makes complete sense to give up something that is only temporary to gain something that is eternal, if anyone says it is easy, they have not given up everything as they suppose or pretend.
W do give up things that hinder our walk, behaviors, ideas, ourselves, but what is most painful is when God takes away. Only God knows how to do the molding, we can't mold ourselves.
 
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Stranger

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Exactly. And that sin is the most prevalent one in the church today (albeit at a much lower level). Wanting to be identified with the "saved" but yet living as regular sinners.

There was a special status for saints back in the day. But today no one is a saint...because everyone is already seen as one. So the standard of holiness is no longer there. People now just want an assurance they are not going to hell....so they can back to seeking their own lives and hapiness. IOW a cultural Christianity.

First of all, we have no reason to believe that Ananias and Sapphira were not believers. Just because they were taken in judgement doesn't mean they were not Christian.

Special status for the saints? Please. The only thing that makes one a 'saint' is their faith in Jesus Christ. Because of that they are 'sanctified' by God, which is where we get our term 'saint'.

Paul is writing to the 'saints' in Corinth. (1 Cor. 1:2) "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints....."

And throughout the book of (1 Cor.) Paul is trying to correct some wrongs found in the Church. And there are many, yet Paul began by calling them 'saints'. Because we are saints by God's work. Not ours. (1 Cor. 1:30) "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption"

For some reason you're hung up on this 'cultural christianity'. Is this your term or did you read a book about it somewhere?

Stranger
 
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Episkopos

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First of all, we have no reason to believe that Ananias and Sapphira were not believers. Just because they were taken in judgement doesn't mean they were not Christian.

Special status for the saints? Please. The only thing that makes one a 'saint' is their faith in Jesus Christ. Because of that they are 'sanctified' by God, which is where we get our term 'saint'.

Paul is writing to the 'saints' in Corinth. (1 Cor. 1:2) "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints....."

And throughout the book of (1 Cor.) Paul is trying to correct some wrongs found in the Church. And there are many, yet Paul began by calling them 'saints'. Because we are saints by God's work. Not ours. (1 Cor. 1:30) "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption"

For some reason you're hung up on this 'cultural christianity'. Is this your term or did you read a book about it somewhere?

Stranger
In the bible it's called being worldly. I'm seeing the present unrest with the whole fake racism thing as a cultural backlash with many believers getting caught up in it. There is no example from believers at all...taking sides and all. Kneeling before the devil and molly coddling terrorist forces into a gleeful anarchy. These are the forces of apartheid. And to boot, the church is itself racially divided...segregated into Black or White churches. NO example there being given of the deep love that is supposed to be a witness to the world. So culture runs deeper than the love of Christ in most modern believers. There are some that have come out of the system...but even then the learning curve is very long and steep. The religious institution is looking for cultural support by being a religion that is going the same way as the culture. Anything counter-culture comes from the devil...instead of a proper witness of the church that is from Heaven. So people choose between the divisive nature of the worldly cultures the devil is offering. The Republican culture...or the Democratic culture...all from the American culture...but not of God.

One has to be blind to not see it.
 
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