tribulation and suffering part 1

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Timtofly

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Are you saying the Great Tribulation has already started, or is past??? When? The seals start with the revealing of the Antichrist. That hasn't happened yet. Christians would know.
The Great Tribulation is for Satan. It should not happen at all. Please stop looking for it and an antichrist. Satan has fed the church many lies. The church is looking for God on the throne and the Lamb by His side. The apostate church has no clue.
 

Timtofly

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Very good.
Only in the last line 'to Israel', should be: 'to the Jews'.
One of the worst errors of Christian today, is to virtually worship the Jewish Nation they call; Israel.

This shows just haw confused and deceived many are. Also how little they read and understand the Prophesies about the fate of the House of Judah.
God renamed Jacob to Israel. Why are we narrowing it down to the house of Judah? It is Judah that wants the nation of current Israel all to himself? The very notion you are preaching against.

For one thing, Revelation is about the living. It is not about the dead and the past. Even trying to understand OT prophecies is tedious at best. I am not faulting any one for all the study they have done.

Revelation is not a prophecy. That is my point. John actually is a witness to all events and lived to the bloody end, and went back and gave it to the 7 churches. Do not take my word for that fact. Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal it to you. I cannot unknow what I know from the Bible. Now you only see it as my interpretation. Just like I can only see most of your study as your interpretation, at least those parts that do not make sense. I accept most of what you post. Since Revelation is not a prophecy it is not set in stone like Reformed theologians want you to believe. They claim to know God's Sovereignty. Well God's Sovereignty says Revelation is not a prophecy and is not set in stone or predestined to happen. God knows multiple outcomes in God's Sovereignty and foreknowledge.

Most of the prophecies in the OT have already been fulfilled, because the rest is not history, not predestined to happen. Nor was John allowed to give us all of what John witnessed. Some OT prophecies can not be applied because we have no record to apply them to. Even Daniel was not allowed to record all. All I can go by is written in Revelation itself. I cannot prophesy that an OT prophecy is about to happen or even will happen.
 

Bobby Jo

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... One of the worst errors of Christian today, is to virtually worship the Jewish Nation they call; Israel. ...

You disdain what GOD has Conceived, Called For, and CREATED. And that doesn't come without a penalty.

Bobby Jo
 

Keraz

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You disdain what GOD has Conceived, Called For, and CREATED. And that doesn't come without a penalty.

Bobby Jo
So you think it was God who established the Jewish State of Israel?
How come they never acknowledge this?

Note: there is no prophecy that says the Jews will have a general redemption; only a remnant will be saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27, +
The House of Judah had the Kingdom taken from them 2000 years ago, Matthew 21:43, and nowhere does the Bible say they will get it back. The Lord's faithful people are the Christian, born again believers.

Those who think God still loves the apostate Jews, are very deceived, His chosen people now are the Christians. 1 Peter 2:9-10
You threaten me for posting Bible truths? James 4:11-12
 

Keraz

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God renamed Jacob to Israel. Why are we narrowing it down to the house of Judah? It is Judah that wants the nation of current Israel all to himself?
I am not, it was the Jews that wrongly called their nation Israel.
The real Israel, the ten Northern tribes still remain scattered among the nations. THEY have, in the main; accepted Christianity.
Revelation is not a prophecy. That is my point. John actually is a witness to all events and lived to the bloody end,
I totally and completely reject this way out notion.
John saw a preview of all that must happen, just as Jesus told him in Revelation 1:1
Most of the prophecies in the OT have already been fulfilled,
Mot of the OT and the NT prophesies remain to be fulfilled. I believe that we who are alive for the next 20 or so years will see it all. Shouldn't we know what God has planned for our future?
 

Bobby Jo

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So you think it was God who established the Jewish State of Israel?
How come they never acknowledge this?
...

The Religious NEVER acknowledge GOD. -- They pretend to, but things haven't changed since the time of Jesus, because PEOPLE haven't changed since the times of Jesus.

And as you observed, when the prospect of a Nation-State was pursued MANY Religious Jews REFUSED to financially support this fledgling nation. But it was CREATED and has SURVIVED under the DIRECT GUIDANCE of the ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF.

It's only the naysayers who won't survive.
Bobby Jo
 

marks

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Do you even know

Hi Randy,

I don't think there is much point in asking if I EVEN know anything at all. It's becoming very clear to me that you treat much of what is written as symbolic of something else, because you think certain things just cannot be.

I don't see it that way.

As an example . . .

The Zechariah reference to "holy pots" is an indication of the ubiquitous nature of holiness under the new covenant. Whereas once holiness was limited to certain temple uses and dedications, in the future Zechariah saw holiness expand beyond these ceremonies of cleansing to become the "norm." This is NT Christianity, where the Law no longer applies.

While I see this as prophesying the ubiquitous work for the priesthood in Jerusalem following Jesus' return and establishment of His kingdom.

Much love!
 

marks

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I'm post-trib/pre-mil It is probably going to start soon. So if you are pre-trib. you may only have two years left here. And if you're right, I'm going with you! But I don't think you are right. Rev. 12 talks of other offspring when Israel is being protected. That would be Christians.
Post-rapture believers.
 

Randy Kluth

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Hi Randy,

I don't think there is much point in asking if I EVEN know anything at all. It's becoming very clear to me that you treat much of what is written as symbolic of something else, because you think certain things just cannot be.

I don't see it that way.

As an example . . .



While I see this as prophesying the ubiquitous work for the priesthood in Jerusalem following Jesus' return and establishment of His kingdom.

Much love!

I find prophecies like these difficult by their very nature. They spoke out of one culture and into another very different culture, ie out of the OT Law and into NT Law.

So I'm not taking a stand on anything here, but only speculating. Symbols only provide backdrop for important theological statements.
 

marks

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They spoke out of one culture and into another very different culture, ie out of the OT Law and into NT Law.
I think that they will be fulfilled "as is".

Making things into symbols if that's not what is meant drains away the true meaning of Scripture. What makes you so certain that this won't actually happen?

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

Why would we not think that all the cooking pots in Jerusalem will be used for cooking the sacrifices, exactly like it says? What reason is there in the text that this should not be understood literally?

And if that is not to be understood literally, then what is? And, How do you know?

Much love!
 
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Davy

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The church should be prepared for the return of Christ and God on the throne. Yes, I am turning my back on Satan's deception. You can freely follow Satan if you choose.

I'm following Satan?? That's a STUPID statement. So you're coping out on using common sense too, it would appear. Why don't you just put your Bible taped up in a box into the attic, since you want to deny what it reveals about the coming Antichrist.
 

Keraz

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The Religious NEVER acknowledge GOD. -- They pretend to, but things haven't changed since the time of Jesus, because PEOPLE haven't changed since the times of Jesus.

And as you observed, when the prospect of a Nation-State was pursued MANY Religious Jews REFUSED to financially support this fledgling nation. But it was CREATED and has SURVIVED under the DIRECT GUIDANCE of the ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF.

It's only the naysayers who won't survive.
Bobby Jo
The Jews remain in rejection of Jesus, with no likelihood of accepting Him in the future. What should God do about it?
If you read the prophesies about the House of Judah, you would find out.

I believe, supported by the Words of Jesus, Revelation 2:9 : that the Jewish State of Israel is under the direct guidance of Satan.
God has allowed their existence for His own purposes. That is; to have a visible entity, a fake Israel, while He works with the real, hidden Israel of God.
 
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Bobby Jo

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Except for the Jews, I don't think there will be any other new believers after the Tribulation starts, assuming you don't believe you'll be here during the GT.

Considering we crossed the Tribulation threshold some two years ago, maybe we can do a survey to see if you're correct or not. And I think I can already guess.

Bobby Jo
 

Keraz

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You're skating on thin ice, and I hope it's not the last you see.
Bobby Jo
I am challenging your false beliefs and you have nothing other than abuse to counter it. Tough!
Considering we crossed the Tribulation threshold some two years ago,
What rubbish.
I don't hear any Trumpets yet.
 

Bobby Jo

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I am challenging your false beliefs and you have nothing other than abuse to counter it. Tough!

What rubbish.
I don't hear any Trumpets yet.

I think you need Medical/Psychiatric help more than Scriptural/Historical citations.

Please take appropriate precautions. We've already recently lost a long time member, and don't need to lose another.
Bobby Jo