'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

but most disturbing imo is that you think you know Scripture "truth" lol, when wadr you obviously do not (and neither do i im sure). No offense ge but you are a legend in your own mind i guess

And you describe my fame in a legendary manner, but I'll keep my hypocrite's mask on and bough to offence as to honour.

1Cor 15:10 By the Grace of God, I am what I am, not by my efforts, but by the Grace of God that Sovereignly Works in me.

 

[bbyrd009]

The distinction HERE is not one of or in time but of and in "order" or rank, unmistakable.

The distinction HERE is not one of or in time

Shucks, what shall I say?!

oh, surely you will make some law, like you do pretty much every time you post?

fwiw Bread of Death can show you how to post in colors, too
like if stamping your foot there in bold doesnt seem to be working for you i mean

unmistakable

lol
he who says he knows, doesnt

 

[Davy]

There is no difference between your error and the SDA's, the error of time-setting. The moment you teach <<the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of Christ's future 1,000 years reign>> you commit the same heresy with one word, <future>. Have you not said that word your post would be absolute truth.
DO YOU NOT BELIEVE CHRIST'S PRESENT REIGN AND THE JUDGEMENT SPOKEN OF IN John the same as in ALL SCRIPTURE the Judgement of the Christian Confession of God?

Well, with what you just said, you just called the 1st century Church Fathers guilty of heresy, because I believe like they did, that Christ returns at the end of this present world, which will then begin His 1,000 years 'future' reign over all nations. And it's very obvious for one who doesn't have their head buried in the sand that today, He is not yet here on earth reigning over all nations!

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, with what you just said, you just called the 1st century Church Fathers guilty of heresy, because I believe like they did, that Christ returns at the end of this present world, which will then begin His 1,000 years 'future' reign over all nations. And it's very obvious for one who doesn't have their head buried in the sand that today, He is not yet here on earth reigning over all nations!

as far as you are concerned anyway maybe?

but wadr its obvious for anyone who is now an heir that this is a perfect world, we live in a miracle, and you cant Quote "Christ, returning" for a berry good reason, ok?

Christ is right here, right now, and may you find Him today sir

 

[prism]

I can't believe there are 29 pages trying to answer the question 'when?'. The Scripture tells us in the same passage...

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
(1Co 15:54-55)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Well, with what you just said, you just called the 1st century Church Fathers guilty of heresy, because I believe like they did, that Christ returns at the end of this present world, which will then begin His 1,000 years 'future' reign over all nations. And it's very obvious for one who doesn't have their head buried in the sand that today, He is not yet here on earth reigning over all nations!

It is very obvious and sad there are people who believe what you say. But Reformed Protestants - the only Protestants - and all <<the 1st century Church Fathers>> are solidly united Amillennialists. And you have zero support from the Word of God for your heresy that <<the 1st century Church Fathers>> believed that Christ's return at the end of this present world, <will begin His 1,000 years' reign>>. Christ's return at the end of this present world, will continue his eternal reign but will begin it from ON EARTH -- his eternal reign which at present is Christ's from IN HEAVEN reigning on earth through the Holy Spirit and True Believers, Revelation 20 "the Thousand Years This The First Resurrection" -- the spiritual resurrection of, or the new birth.

 

[complete]

Reply#13
Hi Helen,
Just a small thing . . . "caught up in clouds" may mean that we are caught up into the water vapour that hangs in the sky, or that clouds of us will rise to meet Jesus. I believe the wording interprets correctly either way.

Much love!

'For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
with the voice of the archangel,
and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them in the clouds,
to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.'
(1 Thessalonians 4:16)

Hi @marks,

Just going back over the thread, I came to this one, from you to @Helen. Were you referring to 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (above) - 'caught up together --- in the clouds'?

* This makes me think of Revelation 19 (1 Corinthians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:7,13) and Revelation 1:7,

'Behold, He cometh with clouds;
and every eye shall see Him,
and they also which pierced Him:
and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him.
Even so, Amen.'

* ... and Matthew 24:29-31:-

'Immediately after the tribulation of those days
shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming
in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He shall send His angels with a great 1 Thessalonians sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other.'

* In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, the 'coming' (parousia), the personal arrival, or presence of the Lord is detailed: and believers are waiting for the Son from heaven. These same believers are told in 2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 that they would receive rest from suffering at the Lord's revelation from heaven with His mighty angels, therefore these two terms must refer to the same event, which Matthew 25:31,- 'When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: - links with His arrival on the earth with power and great majesty: the King of kings and Lord of lords of Revelation 19. The Thessalonian saints could not have had two different phases of the Lord's descent from His present glory as their hope at one and the same time

* I am glad that I have got that sorted out in my mind, I hope you find it helpful too, although you have probably always understood this, but I have not.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[marks]

Just going back over the thread, I came to this one, from you to @Helen. Were you referring to 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (above) - 'caught up together --- in the clouds'?

Yes, that's right. The wording there is a little ambiguous whether it means being caught up into the sky to find ourselves in a cloud, or that clouds of us will be caught up.

Just a small thing.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi Helen,

Just a small thing . . . "caught up in clouds" may mean that we are caught up into the water vapor that hangs in the sky, or that clouds of us will rise to meet Jesus. I believe the wording interprets correctly either way.

Much love!

ha
contemplate "clouds" as things that obscure a clear view tho maybe :)

Yes, that's right. The wording there is a little ambiguous whether it means being caught up into the sky to find ourselves in a cloud, or that clouds of us will be caught up.

Just a small thing.

Much love!

turns into a big thing though, if that is all of your choices...
the kingdom does not come by observation
Galileans ("circuit riders," perhaps) why do you stand there looking up into the sky?

 

[bbyrd009]

if your Right Eye offends you, pluck it out and toss it!

 

[marks]

contemplate "clouds" as things that obscure a clear view tho maybe

Things that bring refreshing and life.

:)

Things that bring deluge and wash all away.

Things that are large and visible at great distance, but composed of things that are small and hard to see even close up.

I've looked at clouds from both sides now, from up and down, and still, somehow, it's life's illusions I recall.

I really don't know clouds . . . at all. Joni Mitchell

 

[marks]

turns into a big thing though, if that is all of your choices...
the kingdom does not come by observation
Galileans ("circuit riders," perhaps) why do you stand there looking up into the sky?

Not sure what you mean to say here.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not sure what you mean to say here.

@amadeus little help if you would sir ty

 

[marks]

@amadeus little help if you would sir ty

I was more interested in what you might say, but that's OK.

 

[marks]

the kingdom does not come by observation

Because it comes down to this. How do you know this? It may seem a simple or light question, but it's not.

 

[Helen]

Things that bring refreshing and life.

:)

Things that bring deluge and wash all away.

Things that are large and visible at great distance, but composed of things that are small and hard to see even close up.

I've looked at clouds from both sides now, from up and down, and still, somehow, it's life's illusions I recall.

I really don't know clouds . . . at all. Joni Mitchell

True...
..and spiritually meaning group..."encompassed about with so great a cloud/group of witlessness .. "

 

[Earburner]

I can't believe there are 29 pages trying to answer the question 'when?'. The Scripture tells us in the same passage...

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
(1Co 15:54-55)

Yes!! We who are born again of God's Holy Spirit have the Victory over death right now! 1 John 5:13.
However, one might ask, how is death vanquished, eliminated altogether among the unsaved, IF they are allowed to remain alive and "ESCAPE" into a "Millennium on earth", fabricated by the scholars of "Religion"?
Ans. They CAN'T!!
Why?
Ans. 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
In the day of Jesus' return in flaming fire,
ALL the Saints will be ressurected/transformed, but ALL the wicked unsaved, who are in disbelief of Jesus, SHALL BE DESTROYED!!
Iows, NO ONE will be left alive, in their corruptible flesh, to re-populate the earth!!
Saints- all redeemed!
Unsaved- all destroyed!

Upon Jesus' Fiery return, EVERY aspect of death, graves (hell) included, will THEN be vanquished and burned up.
There will be NO second chances for the
"condemned already". KJV.
John 3:18
2 Peter 3:10-13

 

[prism]

Yes!! We who are born again of God's Holy Spirit have the Victory over death right now! 1 John 5:13.

But the passage I quoted and actually the context of most of 1Cor 15 is referring to the resurrection of our bodies, not the victory we have now in our spirits.

However, one might ask, how is death vanquished, eliminated altogether among the unsaved, IF they are allowed to remain alive and "ESCAPE" into a "Millennium on earth", fabricated by the scholars of "Religion"?

One might ask that but that is just a leading question into a topic many good Christians differ on, and is not the question posed in the OP.

 

[Earburner]

But the passage I quoted and actually the context of most of 1Cor 15 is referring to the resurrection of our bodies, not the victory we have now in our spirits.

One might ask that but that is just a leading question into a topic many good Christians differ on, and is not the question posed in the OP.

Thread Title:
"Death is swallowed up in victory-When?"

Ans.
See the word "when", written TWO times in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10- KJV.

 

[complete]

True...
.. and spiritually meaning group..."encompassed about with so great a cloud/group of witlessness .. "

Hi Helen,

Yes, it is used in that way too, (figuratively) I agree: of the faithful witnesses spoken of in Hebrews 11, who had been faithful unto death; but whose witness remained as a spur for those Hebrew believers who then lived, to do as they had done, and run the race set before them; looking, as they had, to the Author and Finisher of their Faith, who had also endured; despising the shame, for the joy that was set before Him.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris