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Featured 'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by charity, May 28, 2020.

  1. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Btw Charity,
    in your understanding of all that I have pointed out in those scriptures, you have just taken the first step on the path of the "amillennial view".
    Please don't be confused about the word "amillennial". Amillenniasts DO BELIEVE in
    A period of "a thousand years", but we interpret it as being symbolic of God's Age of Grace, which is now, ever since Pentecost.

    As there is NO time limit or knowledge of such, for the Day of when Christ shall return, so also there is NO time limit for the length of time in God's Age of Grace. For when Christ does appear in Glory and in flaming fire, that will BE THE END of God's Grace!

    Now, since we both know that there will be none of the living unsaved to be spared, there will naturally be NO "escapees" to repopulate the planet, which is the conditional reasoning of the Premillennial view!

    However, Jesus clearly did say that He did not know the day nor the hour of His return, but did affirm the conditon of mens hearts concerning faith. Please see Luke 18:8
    That scripture perfectly alligns in conjunction with 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
    [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [of Christ's return] shall not come, except there come a falling away first,...
    I have purposely left out the remainder of that verse, because it most surely is a topic for another time.

    As to any question that you may have, for scriptural support about the "amillennial view", I am more than willing to answer, with scripture, according to the Lord's Holy Spirit.

    As for the remainder of 2 Thessalonians 2:3, I am more than able to supply the correct understanding of it, and why there is so much misinformation concerning
    "The man of sin".

    Thanks for listening, EB

     
  2. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Amen.
     
  3. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    "In Christ" = by virtue of Christ = in the Power Christ has as well as by the Power He obtained through having died and resurrected, that is, having overcome and destroyed death. NOW THE SON IS BECOME THE JUDGE ALSO.

    And so only after and because Jesus ROSE from the dead can He RAISE the dead -- irrespective, all the dead, wicked and redeemed. Therefore the Lord raises all the dead in the Last Day AND judges ALL the dead in the last day, exactly like in John 5:28,29 - 'all who are in there graves' - 'they that have done good', and, 'they that have done evil'. ONE resurrection of ALL and separation of all once, the tares and the wheat by the angels as Jesus said He would command them to do in the day of judgement at his second coming and the Resurrection. <<ALL who are 'in Christ', shall be made alive.>> So shall all who are not in Christ, be made alive BY THE SAME POWER WHICH BELONGS TO AND RESIDES IN CHRIST ONLY. Therefore obviously 'all', are NOT 'in Christ' in the same sense nor are all made alive in Christ unto Life; but the wicked are raised in and by virtue of Him who only has life or gives life or will give life to whomever He will for whichever Purpose He purposed UNTO HIS OWN GLORY and not the glory of man, lost or saved, so that the saved shall be GLORIFIED BY GRACE and not by works of the Law or own righteousness EVEN AFTER RESURRECTION AND ETERNAL LIFE HAD BEEN RECEIVED.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  4. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Concerning John 5:28-29, Jesus says it more clearly in:
    John 4[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers [born again of the Holy Spirit] shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth [the "spirit of truth" within them]: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
    John 5[25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead [in their sins, being dead to God] shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live [be born again of the Holy Spirit].

    Quite literally, God cannot and will not resurrect anyone who does not have the Holy Spirit of God within them. Romans 8:8-9.
    All of such are "condemned already", and therefore HAVE DIED the second death!

    In the day that Adam ate of the forbidden tree, he spiritually DIED to God. And though he lived in his flesh for years later as alive, his flesh then finally died, which was the second death for him.

    The inheritance of Adam to us, is that we are born dead to God already (John 3:18), that is the first death.
    Physical death, is the death of the flesh. If anyone dies in their flesh without Christ, that is the second death!!

    The truth is, just by our physical birth, we all are partakers of the first death, of being born dead to God.
    Faith in Jesus, enables us to escape the second death, by His Gift of the Holy Spirit, who is THE Vehicle of God's Gift of Eternal Life.
    John 11:26
    1 John 5:13
     
  5. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    So now hear this:
    Are you NOW "a partaker of the Divine nature (His)"? 2 Peter 1:4
    If so, then YOU are *having "part" in the first Resurrection, who is Christ, aka "the firstborn from the dead"

    * hath- KJV, meaning: in the present tense
     
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  6. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Ok, to verify what I have said about our salvation is NOW, as in the present tense, concerning the first and second death.
    Please compare the following in the KJV
    1. Romans 8:9b ...Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    2. Revelation 20:6a. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,...

    Who is the first resurrection?
    Jesus is of course, being "the firstborn from the dead".

    If you have been born again by His Holy Spirit, then you have entered into the KoG, as revealed in 2 Peter 1[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    By being born again by God's/Christ's Holy Spirit (Romans 8:8-9), you are made to be a partaker of the divine nature (His), and therefore are NOW a participant in the first resurrection, who is Christ!
     
  7. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Now remember what it says in 2 Peter 1:4, we are "partakers of the divine nature" , which is saying that we are not yet wholly made or manifested in the likeness of Christ's Immortality, but are still waiting for that Day of His appearance from Heaven, in the fulness of His Glory, in flaming fire, whereby we shall see Him as He is, and then be bodily resurrected/transformed, after the same manner of His likeness.
    1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
    [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
     
  8. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 20[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,
    Is there anyone that you know, who was/is the "FIRSTborn from the dead"?
    Well, I surely do hope that you DO know Him, and that HE KNOWS YOU!

    I purposely left out the remainder of that verse, because in and of itself it is another whole different study, of which diametrically opposes the pre-millennial view.
    "but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
    I will say this much: when shall we reign with Christ, since upon His Glorious return in flamming fire, taking vengeance for destruction against the unsaved, there will be NO "escapees" to repopulate the earth?

    Not only that, where does it say that we, who have been resurrected into immortality, will be reigning over anyone of "flesh and blood"??
    I thought "flesh and blood" CANNOT inherit the KoG!!
    Yep! As you can see, that IS another different study, for another time.
     
  9. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    If it weren't my God-given DUTY to counter all hypocrisy and Scripture abuse, I would not have replied. Therefore know that I will expose you and your blatant blasphemies.

    Who are YOU to tell God He <<cannot and will not resurrect anyone who does not have the Holy Spirit of God within them>>!
    Since when are YOU the Judge to decide and declare <<All of such are "condemned already", and therefore HAVE DIED the second death>>!
    And by what authority other than the DEVIL'S have YOU, to dishonour God's Word by presenting <Romans 8:8-9>?

    What SICK dismal warped satanic idea have YOU, claiming <<In the day that Adam ate of the forbidden tree, he spiritually DIED to God>>! When a man <die spiritually to God> it means God forgave his sin and restored him to eternal life and perpetual DYING TO SIN!

    <<And though he lived in his flesh for years later as alive, his flesh then finally died, which was the second death for him.>> Such as THESE, shall find out in the Last Day that they have been raised from the dead BY THE MERIT OF JESUS' triumph over death and sin its cause : TO BE CAST INTO HELL THE "SECOND DEATH" of Scripture.

    <<The inheritance of Adam to us, is that we are born dead to God already (John 3:18), that is the first death.>> Yes, but you just further embroider on the devil's lying, because the legacy of Adam to us, is that we are born dead to God already by <the first death> which Christ had overcome and destroyed for his elect so that they when raised in the Last Day shall not see death for "over them the Second Death has no power". But the wicked raised from the dead in the Power of Christ's power over death obtained through the cross, shall find "the second death" staring them in the eye. They will not "see His Face" and "the glory of God in the Face of Jesus". The wicked shall be thrown into everlasting death because "over them the Second Death has power".

    <<Physical death, is the death of the flesh.>> It is the death of the living - of the whole man the whole soul flesh blood bone breath mind spirit whatever living. YOU TELL GOD'S CHILDREN HERE THE VERY LIE THE DEVIL CAME UP WITH IN EDEN! If not for the mercy of his Creator WHEN HIS FLESH DIE man would have died and would have been in eternal, in the last, in the Second Death, the death of hell in hell forever.

    <<If anyone dies in his flesh without Christ, that is the second death!!>> For once do you accidentally and totally against your grain, speak truth. Accidentally, I say, because, just look how you without pause go on in your ERROR: <<The truth is, just by our physical birth, we all are partakers of the first death, of being born dead to God.>> THIS IS THE EMPOWERMENT OF THE DEVIL AND SIN OVER GOD IN CHRIST AND THE POWER OF HIS GOSPEL, in other words, plain flat out vulgar blasphemy.

    It's because you have the Gospel screwed up completely like HERE: <<Faith in Jesus, enables us to escape the second death>>. It's not one's <faith> which <<enables us to escape>>; salvation and redemption are of JESUS WHO APPROACHED, FACED, CONQUERED, AND DESTROYED DEATH AND SIN, WHO NEVER TRIED TO <ESCAPE> BUT "DESTROYED THE LAST ENEMY, DEATH".
     
  10. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Oh do grow up...
     
  11. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    @Earburner
    @GerhardEbersoehn
    & all who have entered in this thread.

    Hello there,

    I want to thank you for your responses, and apologise for not replying. Especially to Earburner, because he has entered several replies which I have not been able to address. My silence does not indicate indifference, but I am finding it physically draining at the moment for some reason, and am having to go offline. May 'the spirit of wisdom and revelation' of the prayer of Ephesians chapter one, be ours as we wait on Him, and read His Word: and may it, and it alone, be the arbiter in regard to all our varying understanding expressed here on the forum.

    * May His Name be glorified

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    we arent deemed Galileans for nothing i guess lol
    if only you could Quote that eh :)

    but some good thoughts nonetheless imo
    "dont believe everything you think"
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 7:44 AM
  13. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    There are different judgments written of in God's Word, but the final Judgement is the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of Christ's future 1,000 years reign of Revelation 20. When our Lord Jesus comes, there will be 'a' judgment to divide His sheep ("resurrection of life") from the goats ("resurrection of damnation"). And then His 1,000 years reign 'with' His sheep, over the goats, will begin (Matthew 25; Revelation 20).
     
  14. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    <<...[the "spirit of truth" within them]:...>> STOP IT RIGHT THERE, BLASPHEMER!
     
  15. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Like!
     
  16. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    There is no difference between your error and the SDA's, the error of time-setting. The moment you teach <<the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of Christ's future 1,000 years reign>> you commit the same heresy with one word, <future>. Have you not said that word your post would be absolute truth.
    DO YOU NOT BELIEVE CHRIST'S PRESENT REIGN AND THE JUDGEMENT SPOKEN OF IN John the same as in ALL SCRIPTURE the Judgement of the Christian Confession of God?
     
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  17. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I am not an Amillennialist. I believe in a Pre-millennial return of Jesus Christ which then will begin His 1,000 years reign of Rev.20.

    Christ's 1,000 years reign of Rev.20 is dependent upon the manifesting of the "first resurrection", which defines the saints who came out of the tribulation and refused the mark of the beast. That is not a reference in time back to Jesus' 1st coming, nor has it been in any time on earth so far up to today.

    The idea that Christ's 1,000 years reign has already begun is from the deceived Christian leaders who have been tricked into putting their trust in the "New World Order" which Satan's host are actually behind. Their plan is a "one world government", and for the end of this present world God is going to allow it, because He is sending the devil upon the earth to deceive the whole world, except His elect which He has sealed.
     
  18. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    seemed like a good take to me? what do you dislike about that ge
    tbh that was about the only part i liked there lol
    ppl are weird huh, i am weird lol
    if it cant happen today, then it wont happen at all imo, yeh
    Only God knows when
     
  19. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    1Thessalonians 4

    14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    14 εἰ γὰρ πιστεύομεν ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἀπέθανεν καὶ ἀνέστη, οὕτως καὶ ὁ Θεὸς τοὺς κοιμηθέντας διὰ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ἄξει σὺν αὐτῷ.

    14 For if we believe
    14 εἰ γὰρ πιστεύομεν

    that Jesus died and rose again (from the dead),
    ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ἀπέθανεν καὶ ἀνέστη (ἐκ / ἀπὸ νεκρῶν)

    even so also (we believe )
    οὕτως καὶ (πιστεύομεν)

    those who sleep (the dead)
    τοὺς κοιμηθέντας (οἱ νεκροὶ)

    through / by / by virtue of Jesus
    διὰ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ

    God will bring again / raise up (from the dead)
    ὁ Θεὸς ἄξει (ἀναστήσει ἐκ νεκρῶν)

    by / through Him / by virtue of Him (because He raised up from the dead)
    σὺν αὐτῷ (διὰ ἀπὸ τῶν νεκρῶν / ἐκ νεκρῶν ἐγήγερται / ἤγαγε)

    This is nothing than the resurrection of the saints in the Last Day whom God by virtue of Jesus’ Resurrection will bring UP from the grave—not down from ‘heaven’.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 6:16 PM
  20. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Earburner said:
    Concerning John 5:28-29, Jesus says it more clearly in:
    John 4[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers [born again of the Holy Spirit] shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth [the "spirit of truth" within them]: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

    I said:
    <<...[the "spirit of truth" within them]:...>> STOP IT RIGHT THERE, BLASPHEMER!

    What do I dislike about that? Jesus says in John 4[23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH for the Father seeketh such to worship him."
    Comes along this ear creeper and DIRECTLY CONTRADICT what Jesus said, and declares, WORSHIPPING HIMSELF: <<the "spirit of truth" within them>> -- THE SPIRIT OF SELF!
     
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