The Supernatural, paranormal and the artificial

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Josho

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For me fruits also can include results in the practical world. I think the demonic wishes to see death and destruction while the angelic wants to see life and harmony. If someone called himself a shepherd but led the sheep into danger and their lives were lost because of his incompetence, I can't see his a a competent shepherd. He could be lacking in love as you say. He could be lacking wisdom or power. He may like sheep but was too lazy to study the terrain to see where perils existed or to be able to plan ahead so they would have proper food and water. He could also be too lazy to train himself how to defend them against attack -- or too cowardly to defend them.

I believe if we love, truly love, we must seek wisdom and power also. Paul calls those faith, hope and charity -- the three go together. We are as strong as our weakest point -- and if someone is strong in one but weaker in the other two, his strength in the first will decrease unless he grows in the other two. I think Paul places importance on charity first because it's easier to start with that and increase the other two.

Someone who leads others into disaster is not hearing from God. That cannot be. While I believe in forgiving such leaders if they repent, I also think they should realize they are not fit ministers. Some of them fooled themselves. They should recognize they were guided by something other than God. People who trusted them should also see that and not allow themselves to be fooled a second time by continuing to accept failures as ministers.

Congregations are responsible for this. It is a sin to tempt to others to sin. If I knew someone had been addicted to pain pills and gotten into illegal drugs when the supply of legal pills ran out, I should not tempt him to fall again by letting pain pills in my medicine cabinet if he comes to visit. If he winds up in jail because I tempted him that way, I'm partly to blame. If a man was caught in adultery and says he's sorry, that's fine, but women should not be tempting him to repeat his offense by being alone with him, by wearing overly daring clothes, or by making gestures that could be construed as enticing. If we know the weaknesses of others and love them, we may have to adjust our own lives to avoid tempting them to sin.

What is wrong about removing failed ministers or prophets? It will hurt their feelings? If we say that, we are saying such men are motivated by pride. What is wrong about demoting someone and giving him a lesser job or perhaps no job involving trust or responsibility? In the past ten or twenty years, we have seen how poorly things turned out for the Catholic Church when they were "too easy" on offending priests. Bishops were often motivated by wanting to protect the priests rather than the congregations. It didn't work for them; and to a large extent, they have stopped trying to protect the bad apples. Protestants might learn from the mistakes of the Catholics in how to deal with failed ministers and the like.

Oh it's definitely a lesson some protestants still need to learn, many are still busy pointing at the wrongs of the past at the Catholic churches, but the protestant Church has just had as many sex scandals, and not too many have been dealt with, and they tend to stand ministers back up too quick that have been dealt with amoung Protestant denominations.
 

Josho

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Oh it's definitely a lesson some protestants still need to learn, many are still busy pointing at the wrongs of the past at the Catholic churches, but the protestant Church has just had as many sex scandals, and not too many have been dealt with, and they tend to stand ministers back up too quick that have been dealt with amoung Protestant denominations.

@Giuliano

In Australia they had a royal commission into the Catholic Church, but they didn't have one for the Protestant Church.
 
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Philip James

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If someone called himself a shepherd

The many counterfeits that exist will only snow those who are not familiar with the genuine

The problem is indeed, someone calling themselves a shepherd when they are not..

From the very beginning, authority in the Church has been given through the laying on of hands (ordination).

To claim authority for oneself, without the ordination of the Church, is not the way of the apostles...

Peace!
 
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brian100

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Devils get into your head and make you think crazy stuff.. & most people hang themselves for it.

But Saints are alive and can send you mail from God. If you don't believe Jesus is the creator of Life-- then you must become an atheist or find a new religion.
 

quietthinker

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Queitthink,



You just contradicted yourself.. You said 'the Saints are dead' but Devils are not. Why do you even believe in Jesus? his Kingdom is Life.
The contradiction brian, only exists if you believe the saints are alive somewhere. The scripture is clear on the state of all the dead; they sleep (are dead) till Jesus calls them from the grave at the resurrection.

When there are entities appearing or speaking that claim they are departed dead, saints or not, they are demons masquerading as those who have died.

What starts off as voices or appearances that are allowed or encouraged ends in full blown possession.
 
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quietthinker

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Devils get into your head and make you think crazy stuff.. & most people hang themselves for it.

But Saints are alive and can send you mail from God. If you don't believe Jesus is the creator of Life-- then you must become an atheist or find a new religion.
You are dealing with the same enemy brian (manifestation of 'saints' or no saints)......he changes any which way to catch you in his snare. If you use any other authority other than God's word, even your own experience in this matter, you will be shortchanged....guaranteed! ....Run, run for your life.
 

mjrhealth

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Voices in your head can be a sign of a mental illness not demons
Its funny isnt it, call them selves spirit filed yet deny His Spirit,

Act_7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him, I guess Moses, all the prophets of old, even the disciples , especially Paul must of had real psychological issues.

Act_22:7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Still who wants to listen to God.

Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
 
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mjrhealth

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The answer can be found in this verse.

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.

God is still revealing secrets to the prophets today. And it isn't always ear tickling news. ;)
One does not need to be a prophet to hear from God.

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
 
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brian100

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You see... this guy was really mental. but it depends on what you think causes it. That's what it sounds like when devils are cast out in your head. Some kind of screaming fall. They get up into your mind and drive you crazy! If you have no faith you end up in the news.

 

brian100

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I heard the devils in my head more than anyone-- but I say 'to them all'... 'I love Jesus and Mary'.. just drown em out. They came after me and destroyed my whole life because they knew about me decoding the Shroud in 2018... I would dream about serial people breaking into my house at age 3 scaring me to death!!! and they bang my windows at my house. God made me know how horrible they are... and I'm never going to that kingdom.

They can try to stop you, but Faith in God defeats them in your head and in real life. If you have no faith you will be seen in the news.

Anyone here who say they never had bad thoughts is a liar.

I've also seen the Ghost at Puente Hills Mall <Calif, in the early 90's, and recently in 2018. You want to see people run from it .. I have.. but I never run. I'm not afraid of Ghosts. I think some Ghosts can see me.

Devils will scare you to God... if you see them.

God must of let me see and hear them to build my faith bigger, and most people don't even know they are in their life. And also let me see and hear them so I can tell others what they are and do.

When you are about to die.. from an illness, they come to pull your legs off the bed at night.... trying to rip your bodiless spirit away. Shove pillows on your face.. like they snuffing u out. horrible stuff. Throw you off your bed..but you had never moved.

You can ask Jesus to give you rest from them..google the scripture.

Dreams are of the spirit world

I've become an expert in this dept.
 
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JunChosen

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"...Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

4) "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world."
5) "They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them."
(James 4:4-5).

To God Be The Glory
 

brian100

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post #113.

I have tried to move mountains over my wife and kid and now I think those mountains be the path to God's kingdom. When it came to harm nobody could get near me enuf to take me out.
 

JunChosen

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We must admit, all of us, if we are Christians - our faith is puny! There is no room for overconfidence in our own (personal) beliefs or our own faith.[/QUOTE]

If you have faith why then do you need to exercise it? In fact faith is a gift.

To God Be The Glory
 
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Cristo Rei

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Once I saw a demon in the air in a church. No one else saw it. They thought everything was just fine. I prayed for it to go away. It did. Then it came back. I prayed for it to go away again. It did and then it came back again. At that point, I figured out what was going on. I had every right to tell that demon not to be in my space; but I did not have the right to tell it to go away when the people in the congregation wanted it there and were inviting it back. I did not have the right to judge that demon, not when humans wanted it there.

Im grateful that i can often see Satan or one of his demons trying to deceive me.
I'll usually catch them hiding behind my thoughts and feelings. They flee once ive identified them.

But i see Satan out in the world as well. Everywhere i look i see it and it's manifestations. Satan has infiltrated every part of society and i get so disheartened because ive identified him, in front of everyone, in plain sight, im pointing at him, im praying for him to go, but he just mocks me and laughs. I don't have any authority in this battle ground nor do i have the military hardware. As u say the general population love evil and all it's manifestations... All i can do is face evil in my war against it, my spiritual war...
 
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Cristo Rei

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It seems that 'wisdom' and 'discernment' go hand in hand. God say's:
James 1:5
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him."

Wisdom would naturally lead to discernment, I would think.
JMO :)

Hmmm yes discernment. I had none of that at one point in my life. I don't think one can have the "gift of discernment" in the sense that they never get deceived by the evil one. I think it's like a scale, the more wisdom one has the more capable they of discerning. And seeing humans have a limited wisdom our ability to discern will also be limited
 
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Cristo Rei

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I believe the answer is from Matthew 7:16 "you will know them by their fruits," so if someone claims to have the gift of discernment, but they lack love, or they don't have much compassion, then it's probably best not trusting those sort of people, but if you can tell that they are really are showing the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self Control) then you can trust them.

I know it's getting harder and harder to find other Christians that you can trust, but there are still some.

Interesting thread, sorry im a bit behind...

Im not convinced that the "gift of discernment" is a thing.
I know some people believe they are sinless once they are born again so i could understand them believing this.

But to the rest of us, don't we all sin, don't we sometimes get deceived, hate, anger, greed, pride, envy and the like.
Satan does and will deceive our thoughts and feelings, some will discern it sooner than others.

I think the more wisdom we have and the more connection we have with the Holy Spirit, the more we are better able to discern
 

Cristo Rei

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Thoughts and imaginations

True, true, true.
Thoughts
Imagination
Fantasy
Hallucinations
Illusions
Dreams
Medication/drugs
Deception
Perception
Preconceptions
Coincindence
Mental state/mindset
Beliefs/views
Experiences
I feel like i can keep going on and on here. I would of probably addressed this first. In real life i think its what should be addressed first. The RCC addresses this first, it rules it all out before going ahead with stuff like exorcisms.

Yep, discerning weather it is supernatural or not is the first thing to do.
Once you have discerned it to be supernatural then you have the job of discerning if its a true angel of light of a false one
 
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Cristo Rei

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Example of jumping to conclusions...

Jesus has appeared to me, im saved.
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