Yes Faith it is what pleases God, and that Hi children would run to Him like little children , which people just cant seem to be able to do.
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Sometimes a person has a strong fear or a personal tragedy and they leave their Discipleship.
We can never leave being Born....."Born Again", which means we are already citizens of Heaven, and God's redeemed.
If you drop dead today, you will be with Christ, instantly, because that is your home.
We can't stop the blood of Jesus and the Blood Atonement from doing what it has already accomplished.
But we can stop trying to be a disciple, we can leave this self effort.....and many do.
Demas is an example. He is a child of God who just left his discipleship... This is not to leave God's family, as how we behave is not why we are in it to begin with...
We are in it because God's Blood and Holy Spirit put us in it, and that is a permanent situation.
In the days of the Apostles, being a Christian could get you fed to Lions, or hung upside down and burned like a torch.
It could get you boiled in Oll, and it could get you cut into pieces while you were alive and screaming.
So, many in those days walked away from their "walk", because they were afraid to suffer like this, and so..... that is not the same as being lost, or losing salvation, as you can't lose what you didn't cause.
Self effort is not why God saved you, and having no self effort has no effect on the fact that God saved you.
In Today's world, a person can suffer a lot of sudden tragedy and blame God for "letting it happen" and become a bitter child of God.
They might leave their Discipleship, but God will never stop living IN THEM, and that is the reason the BORN AGAIN belong to God.
He is IN US.......Always, no matter how we THINK or BEHAVE.
You can search the bible for the rest of your life trying to find a verse that you believe suggests that you can lose your salvation.. if that is how you like to see the scriptures, but, you will never find a verse that says that Christ, God, or the Holy Spirit, will ever stop living inside you.
If you "walk away", you walk away with God in you, Christ still in you, and the Holy Spirit still "sealed" in you.
See, you can't stop being "The Temple of God", the "Temple of the indwelling Spirit of God" because you have bad mood, or are just a very carnal person, or became infected with demonic heresy.
To theologically understand why you are an eternal family member is to understand that you didn't cause this...
God caused it with His blood and His Spirit, and will keep you in His family, no matter how you THINK or behave.
God is a Spiritual parent, and being a part of God is a Spiritual situation that can't be changed by carnal behavior related to a person's mindset or desire on any given day.
Loving others is the 2nd Greatest commandment.
A lot of novice believers forsake the 1st Commandment for the 2nd.
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Salvation occurs the INSTANT God sees the Faith you have in your HEART , where you have truly Trusted in CHRIST,..... and God immediately, through HIS Holy Spirit, causes your dead Spirit to be born again ALIVE= INTO His Spirit.
Being born again, is to be born INTO GOD's Spirit, BY God's Spirit.
The Theology that Paul teaches to explain this is..>"Justification BY FAITH". "The GIFT of Salvation". "the GIFT of Righteousness"
We instantly become "ONE" with God and Christ = BORN AGAIN. (Eternal Spiritual Union)
In the end we are called for those who will listen for in them there is hope. God bless you
It seems to me like you are attempting to encourage people to do this.
Is it really a bad thing to be a disciple?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Yes, I had wondered the same thing but, I think he is trying to say that we do nothing "in our own strength" as the Holy Spirit does it all. I don't agree with that statement other than the fact that, yes! We can do nothing at all without God BUT... "For we are laborers together with God.." tells me that we also have a large part here as well.
No our hope is only in Christ and teh works He has done. not in our selves or anyone else.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I guess the OP hasn't studied what Paul said in Hebrews 6. Might be why the OP kind of points to the Book of Hebrews as being dangerous? That sounds like the OP has another doctrine outside The Bible which conflicts with what Paul taught in Hebrews about Christ's Salvation, like how one that once believed on Christ CAN... turn away and reject Him...
Heb 6:1-9
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
That keyword "If" is the condition of falling away from Christ. That passage does not mean it is impossible for a believer to ever fall away. Paul is saying for those who were once enlightened and partook of the heavenly gifts should fall away, it will be impossible to renew them again by repentance. Those are lost, for they have turned away from the Faith.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
KJV
Heb 6:1-9
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
That keyword "If" is the condition of falling away from Christ. That passage does not mean it is impossible for a believer to ever fall away. Paul is saying for those who were once enlightened and partook of the heavenly gifts should fall away, it will be impossible to renew them again by repentance. Those are lost, for they have turned away from the Faith.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
KJV
I do not think you read what I wrote. Ofcourse our forgiveness and salvation is in Christ and who He is. So where is the "no" you are contradicting. I think you are just looking for things to object to even when they are not there.
Rom 12:9 Our love must me sincere, real, from the heart, alive, truthful, honest, with integrity, no guile.
It always amazes me when the lost find love such a mystery. But then we always assume the world is like us, and everyone understands life is just an act, while our hearts are lost and deeply evil. I actually spoke to one believer who lived like this and was definitely not going to let God sort herself out.
But then the sick of letting the living God see our real selves and then heal and resolve all our issues is scary. But surely it is more scary to be thrown in the lake of fire because who we are was never sorted. It is like night and day. If our hearts are full of darkness, how lost is that darkness without any hope.
It is obvious to me anyone who opposes these words still has a dark heart, and does not believe there is liberation and freedom in love. God bless you
Christianity is named for the one who provides it as a Gift.
Christianity, is God offering His blood to resolve the one issue that is keeping us out of heaven, = God resolves our SIN issue for us, by His Blood.
Many believers have the idea that "discipleship", is something that God leaves to us.. and He just sits back and enjoys the show.
Many Christians think that Salvation is a situation where God puts a harness on us and puts us on a track, and says...>"pull", till you finish all your self righteous self effort that is going to get you into heaven, as long as you dont leave the track.
Interestingly enough, God said that He is faithful to complete the salvation that He started on the Cross, that He is doing, on our behalf, in us to completion...... Philippians 1:6
Jesus, just to be clear about that said that "apart from me, you can do nothing".
"Nothing".... includes trying to abide, trying to keep yourself saved, trying to "work out your salvation", trying to be a good Disciple...
Paul explains what Jesus meant by saying "its not I who live"..yet He was most certainly alive when He said that.. last time you checked your New Testament.
So, Christianity is the Spiritual release of God's power and salvation, through us, in place of our effort and self righteousness.
The Phrase that represents HOW to operate Salvation as your Lifestyle: is the phrase... "willing vessel".
What we do, is let God rule us, and Let God have all of us.
Obedience to God's Grace is the ultimate trophy of real Faith.
Perfected Discipleship ,which is what Ive Threaded about in many Threads,... is not working for God, but rather its letting God have all of us all the time, by right believing.
As its by Right Believing that you please God. This is REAL FAITH.
Real Faith, defined as Right Believing = produces a Holy Life.
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It seems to me that you accused me of being a "gnostic" and have not read their theology...you have noq admitted, TODAY.
Did you read some today?
So, what "seems to you", to be true, is nothing to be trusted.
Truly.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
""For we are laborers together with God.""
= By HIS POWER.
Paul said that he had >labored< more then all the other Apostles combined. How? "it is not I who live, but CHRIST who lives in me".
If we do the labor we get the credit.
This is the same as trying to abide....... as it becomes 'look what im doing"., and Real Christianity is being available to let GOD do it through you.
Paul was not taking the credit for the "labor".
He was evaluating how the labor was achieved thru him, by God.
I think i need to post a Thread that explains this "labor" idea that you are contemplating..
Maybe tomorrow.
Seems like a good time to do it.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I'm not at all sure what you are talking about with "this labor idea that I am contemplating" ??!
Every single thing you have written above, you have written to the choir brother. Either yours or my lines are crossed here...i NEVER spoke of doing Gods work, or anything for that matter in MY OWN STRENGTH...do not recall ever even intoning that idea.
You Have a blessed night...see you in this jungle another time.
Of course, we can "keep ourselves saved", "work out our salvation", "abide" and try to be a good disciple, with Him.
In my Bible (the kjv) he says, "nevertheless I live".
Its because you were adamant about "WE being laborers with Christ/God" in response to something that justbyfaith posted that he yanked out of context, from one of my Threads.
I decided to write tomorrows Thread, that i mentioned to you, before tomorrow, as i have no way to know if i will have time to do it.
Monday is typically my busiest day of the week.. So, i wanted to follow thru as i had said i would post this Thread.
Find it here..
The Twins
Sure....
You can keep yourself saved.
All you need to do is to shed Jesus's Blood for yourself.
If you can't then you might want to rethink your entire idea of "Faith".
But if you can, then just keep on teaching what you're teaching.
No; it is a combination of 1 Peter 1:5 (kjv) and 1 John 5:18. See also Jude 1:21.
1Pe 1:5, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
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