marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I don't need to find out anything that I don't need to know. And I thought that I was driving a F1 car, not a road-going vehicle.
Salvation Through Baptism ???
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marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Noah was saved by grace only after he done all the Lord commanded him to do. (Gen.6:8,22)
Naaman was cleansed of leprosy only after completing all the prophet told him to do. (2Kings 5)
The Ephesians were saved by grace only when they had done what the Lord required in (Acts 19:1-6) (Mark 16:16)
(Jn 3:3-5) (Gal.3:27) (Rom.6:3-6) (Heb.10:22) (Titus 3:5) (Col.2:12) (Acts 2:38,47 ; 22:16 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40)
Naaman was cleansed of leprosy only after completing all the prophet told him to do. (2Kings 5)
The Ephesians were saved by grace only when they had done what the Lord required in (Acts 19:1-6) (Mark 16:16)
(Jn 3:3-5) (Gal.3:27) (Rom.6:3-6) (Heb.10:22) (Titus 3:5) (Col.2:12) (Acts 2:38,47 ; 22:16 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40)
The entire Chapter of Romans 4 is about grace and justification before any acts of obedience. I wonder... why didn't Paul write an entire chapter just on Noah or Naaman?
Since you brought up Mark 16 I will speak to that and maybe one other verse as the rest of the verses you quoted are self explanatory.
There are five signs that follow those that believe in Mark 16:17-18 and not as you think is intended.
1. Cast out devils. When we preach the Gospel to an unsaved person and he becomes saved, it's like casting out the devils from that person.
2. Speak with new tongues. Whereas in the past he spoke the language of the world, now he speaks the heavenly language about the things of God.
3. They shall take up serpents. After conversion the believer have power over Satan and his demons.
4. They shall drink up deadly things and will not be hurt by them. Can they drink poison and not get hurt? Of course they can. It is speaking of false gospels that no longer can harm a believer.
5. They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Do you know of a believer that go round the hospital beds and lay hands on the sick and they recover? This is speaking about the healing of sin-sicked souls.
God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.
Circumcision in the Old Testament is equivalent to baptism today. National Israel fell into the snare, even as Israel today did, that people must be circumcised to gain the kingdom of heaven which is a ritual and therefore a work that man performs as with baptism. And both are contrary to Ephesians 2:8-9.
To God Be The Glory
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The process for salvation was told by a God…Yeshua. Then retold by the Apostles. Then retold by the Early Christians. It is down right ignorant for someone to stand up 2000 years later and discount the words of Christ and the Apostles. 2000 years later somebody got it right! 2000 years later somebody things they have the authority to override the authority of Christ and correct His words.
It is almost like druggies, no limits to the absurd ideas that pop in their head. you can talk to them but it is like something has got their minds and they are insistent on destroying themselves. You seem insistent on going to hell and not even God can stop you.
Since you brought up Mark 16 I will speak to that and maybe one other verse as the rest of the verses you quoted are self explanatory.There are five signs that follow those that believe in Mark 16:17-18 and not as you think is intended.
1. Cast out devils. When we preach the Gospel to an unsaved person and he becomes saved, it's like casting out the devils from that person.
2. Speak with new tongues. Whereas in the past he spoke the language of the world, now he speaks the heavenly language about the things of God.
3. They shall take up serpents. After conversion the believer have power over Satan and his demons.
4. They shall drink up deadly things and will not be hurt by them. Can they drink poison and not get hurt? Of course they can. It is speaking of false gospels that no longer can harm a believer.
5. They shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Do you know of a believer that go round the hospital beds and lay hands on the sick and they recover? This is speaking about the healing of sin-sicked souls.
This is all after you do the Way…you do what Christ tells you…if not you will get to talk it over with Christ on Judgment day. If you do these things and you are not baptized as Christ told us all to do, you have to wonder where the power comes from.
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Matthew 7:21-25
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
The topic of how to achieve salvation is well defined in the Bible. For you to have such a strong desire and intent to pervert the truth and stand against Christ, there has to be something evil within you….past drug use? Dabble in the occult?
God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.
Circumcision in the Old Testament is equivalent to baptism today. National Israel fell into the snare, even as Israel today did, that people must be circumcised to gain the kingdom of heaven which is a ritual and therefore a work that man performs as with baptism. And both are contrary to Ephesians 2:8-9.
Christ spoke in parables and most are easy to understand if you have the Spirit of Christ.
Circumcision in Christianity was an effort of the Judaizers. Circumcision nor the Mosaic Laws have anything to do with Christianity. But circumcision was the act of becoming a member of Israelite religion, as is Baptism is the event, visual and spiritual of becoming Christian.
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
Romans 4 is about how to live by faith.
It is not about how one is saved.
I love to quote (Rom.4:12) when people go to this chapter b/c it applies to us today.
Ro 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham
The Lord placed (Jn 3:3-5) (Gal.3:27) (Rom.6:3,4) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Titus 3:5) (Heb.10:22) (Mark 16:16) (Acts 2:38 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 22:16) for us to use today.
Of course we look back and learn of Naaman and Noah (Rom.15:4).
Speaking of Noah (1Peter 3:20,21)
in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us
Baptism is contrary to grace?
The Ephesians were saved by grace no doubt, but it was not in Ephesians 2 where they were saved.
Notice -
Eph 2:1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; (Rom.6:3-6) (newness of life after baptism)
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) (Col.2:12,13) (in baptism)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Rom.6-3-6) (Gal.3:27)(at baptism)
The Ephesians were converted to Christ by baptism in (Acts 19:1-6).
Johns baptism was outdated and the preacher explained to them they needed to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins. Like those in (Acts 2:38,47 ; 22:16 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40).
Belief + Baptism = Saved - (Mark 16:16) (1Peter 3:30,21) (Jn 3:3-5,23)
Ok you're dodging the issue. Let me try again. You're saying all who don't get baptized are going to Hell?
Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Amen Jesus!
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Dodging the question! How many ways have I put this. Do you need braille or smoke signals, or bongo drums!
Saved means saved from something. In no language does saved mean ticket to anywhere. No matter what, your passage to heaven is up to Christ.
Some people think that all judgment occurs the moment they believe....they forget about judgment day.
If a man sitting on a log decides he believes in Christ and dies immediately, he is not saved.
If a man sitting on a log decides he believes in Christ and 50 years later dies and was not baptized, he is not saved
If a serial killer in his teens believed and was baptized but then became a serial killer, he is not saved.
If Hitler at the end suddenly believed in Christ just before he was killed, he is not saved.
All of these people will appear before Christ at judgment and their fate will be decided by Him. But none of this changes what Christ and the Apostles said to do for salvation. If you do not do what Christ said and be baptized if you do not partake of the communion....then He is the final judge. There are things that Christ will consider. I am not the judge, Christ is. You speak against what Christ said to do. That is between you and Him. But is that the limit? Do we ignore the rest of Christ's teachings? Do pick and choose what we think is right? The Way to salvation is well defined by Christ and the Apostle and the example is set in the early Church.
If you do not do what Christ said to do, to achieve salvation, that is on you. If someone believes your words and are lost, that also, is on you, and that too, you will have to answer for before Christ. That could multiply very quickly.
But it would be more truthful for you to tell us why you do not think baptism in necessary. Why it is not important? Why you do not what to do what Christ and the Apostles said to do? Is it a battle of scriptures where you pick one side? That is worst way to form a belief. No matter what you read, you cannot erase the fact that Christ and the Apostles told us to be baptized.
Belief and baptism are listed when speaking of salvation, and Christ describes what happens to you if you do not partake of communion, true they don't list everything, every time the topic comes up, but when you say car, do you always list all the components of a car, or do you just saying car.
Some topics can get complex but this is not one of them...how could you have got it so wrong.
So, if someone is dying in the desert he can't be saved because there's no water? You can't be serious!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Dead serious! Again and again I keep saying that in the end Christ will judge the circumstances. And all these attempts to "dodge" the words of Christ and the Apostles is in vain. They give no if's, no and's, or but's. There words are final and stand as truth. Do you judge their words?
"So, if someone is dying in the desert he can't be saved because there's no water?"
If someone believes in and confesses Jesus with all his heart but doesn't know about water baptism yet, he's not saved???
Romans 10:9-10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
You've been judging again and again. Read your posts. Do you obey all of God's commands? Will you go to Hell?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I have already answered these questions more than one time and more than one way. The things that Christ and the Apostles said to do, you should do....anything less for any reason then it is up to Christ to decide your fate. Not that you will go straight to hell if you do not get baptized or partake of communion, but those are circumstance and the whys that Christ will judge on judgment day.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I believe in the Gospel. When some one tries to pervert the word of God I take exception. Then again, many times I have pointed out that final judgment is up to Christ.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not. I am not saying that. I am saying that Christ and the Apostles said to believe and be baptized. If not it will be something that you will be judged for. What reason would you give Christ why you did not get baptized? What reason would you give Christ for thinking it was not important? There is a reason for judgment and it does not end here there could be many things that you do and did not do that you maybe questioned on. As if Christ would not know before hand.
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