Salvation Through Baptism ???

[JunChosen]

What scriptures clearly say is that we are saved by grace through faith, not through baptism.

Whose faith? Surely not ours it is a gift!!!
Scripture declares there is only one baptism (Ephesians 4:5) but also speaks of another. Which baptism do you have in mind?

The unbeliever asked "what must I do to be saved?"

An unbeliever, in and of himself will never ask such question unless he was elected to become saved before the foundation of the world, because he is not interested in the things of God,

Questions:

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?
2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

No to both questions, but the one living can still become saved for salvation is of God and today is still the day of salvation.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

It all comes down to if you believe what Christ said. Or if you believe you have authority that over rides what Christ said. So for what I have seen of you is that you preach an alternate gospel so accursed you are.

Is this all you can muster up by deriding others and not give comments to their statements?

 

[Grailhunter]

Is this all you can muster up by deriding others and not give comments to their statements?

Somethings are simpler than others. This one is cut and dry. There are complex topics in the scriptures, this one is not complex. God in His infinite wisdom setup the scriptures so that no matter what translation you read, salvation is laid out in simple terms. Satan does not like that! So he sends in people like you in to try to confuse the Way to salvation.

Your argument is not with me it is with Christ and His Father and the Holy Spirit. The process of salvation are listed by Christ and the Apostles. True they do not repeat the list every time the topic of salvation comes up, but in God own Words that list is there....

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unt thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

If you look close you will see some "ands" in these sentences, not just one thing.

The Gospels first and foremost is about the Good News of salvation. That is the reason that Satan will call in his agents to confuse and muddy the water. So satisfying to him that people could be deceived into trying but they have mislead by the agents of Satan. Tried but did not quite make it.

Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

You have rejected Christ's own words and call Him a liar and attempt to derail salvation for others. I recommend Baby Ray's barbecue sauce....you will be needing it.

 

[JunChosen]

It all comes down to if you believe what Christ said.

What did Jesus say that I did not believe Him? Are you putting words in my mouth?

Or if you believe you have authority that over rides what Christ said.

Again, what did I say to make you believe that I have more authority than Jesus?

So for what I have seen of you is that you preach an alternate gospel so accursed you are.

What Gospel do I teach that deviates from that of Scripture? Or, is it because you cannot hear what I say?

To God Be The Glory

 

[kcnalp]

The thief on the cross wasn't baptized but he was saved. And yes, they were already baptizing.

 

[Grailhunter]

What did Jesus say that I did not believe Him? Are you putting words in my mouth?



Again, what did I say to make you believe that I have more authority than Jesus?



What Gospel do I teach that deviates from that of Scripture? Or, is it because you cannot hear what I say?

To God Be The Glory

Oh....I have read your past posts.
So tell what you have to do to be saved? Do you believe that belief alone saves you...baptism and communion are not required?

 

[Grailhunter]

The thief on the cross wasn't baptized but he was saved. And yes, they were already baptizing.

No, the thief on the cross went to paradise....no mention of heaven.

 

[Philip James]

And neither would circumcision... yet Scripture calls it a work.

Hello Candidus,

Indeed, a work of the Law.

Interesting that you chose this one as it is the type of Baptism.

Being circumcised in the flesh, was entry into the people of God under the old covenant, with all its requirements.

Baptism is the circumcision of the heart, a work of the Holy Spirit. By which we enter into the people of God under the new and everlasting covenant, which also requires something of us... To love!

Peace be with you!

 

[kcnalp]

No, the thief on the cross went to paradise....no mention of heaven.

He was saved. He was with Jesus.

 

[Philip James]

@Philip James

Hello Philip James!

You asked "Can we be saved by Grace through faith if we refuse that Grace?" Saved by grace does not mean saved by baptism with water.

What scriptures clearly say is that we are saved by grace through faith, not through water baptism or anything else for that matter.

Hello Tong,

For 2000 years the Church has affirmed that Baptism indeed conveys the Grace that it also signifies.

If it does not, why bother? Did Jesus give us empty rituals or the means to receive Grace, through the power of the Holy Spirit?

The unbeliever asked "what must I do to be saved?"

Scriptures give this answer, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Indeed, and the whole household was baptised, following the Way of salvation as the apostles taught..

Questions:

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?

2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

What are your answers to the two questions?

Tong
R0788

Are you setting me up as judge?

It is in baptism that we die with Christ and are reborn into the family of God.
Those who have not been baptised, i leave in the hands of the One who will judge all of us, the One who will judge righteously and with mercy..

Peace be with you!

 

[Grailhunter]

He was saved. He was with Jesus.

lol Yeshua did not go to heaven until after the resurrection.
Yeshua was not headed to heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

He was saved. He was with Jesus.

Well there ya go....you can try to slip words into the scriptures but all people have to do is read them and know that the words saved and heaven are not in that storyline.

 

[kcnalp]

Luke 23:43
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Amen Jesus!

 

[Grailhunter]

Luke 23:43
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Amen Jesus!

You guys keep wanting to put words in the scriptures. Assuredly is not in the scriptures either. Truly more or less means truthfully or matter of fact. But then you have to figure out what Paradise means. Going to heaven and then coming back to earth in the tomb, then resurrecting and then ascending to heaven, is not in the storyline.

When Christ was speaking to Mary Magdalene, He said, Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father....

There is no part of this storyline that indicated that Christ was going back and forth to heaven.

 

[kcnalp]

You guys keep wanting to put words in the scriptures. Assuredly is not in the scriptures either. Truly more or less means truthfully or matter of fact. But then you have to figure out what Paradise means. Going to heaven and then coming back to earth in the tomb, then resurrecting and then ascending to heaven, is not in the storyline.

When Christ was speaking to Mary Magdalene, He said, Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father....

There is no part of this storyline that indicated that Christ was going back and forth to heaven.

I just checked 30 English Bibles and they all say you're wrong. Are you telling us that if someone isn't baptized he will burn in Hell? And this begs the question, "What if someone isn't baptized right?"

 

[Grailhunter]

I just checked 30 English Bibles and they all say you're wrong. Are you telling us that if someone isn't baptized he will burn in Hell? And this begs the question, "What if someone isn't baptized right?"

30 English Bibles...wrong about what?
Satan is a schemer...nothing would entertain him more than for some to believe but not do what Christ said to do to be saved. No where in the Bible is baptism said to be an option. You preach anything else and you preach what is Anti-Christ...Anti-Gospel and the punishment for that is well explained.
What is rebellion? Not believing what Christ said was true. And then you have the Apostles.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure what you were checking 30 bibles for but hands down Christ and the Apostles told people to be baptized. It is a matter of believing and being baptized. Now do you want go through how many times in the Bible that baptism is discussed in regard to it connection when people believed. There was a sense of urgency to be baptized as soon as they believed.

 

[kcnalp]

30 English Bibles...wrong about what?
Satan is a schemer...nothing would entertain him more than for some to believe but not do what Christ said to do to be saved. No where in the Bible is baptism said to be an option. You preach anything else and you preach what is Anti-Christ...Anti-Gospel and the punishment for that is well explained.
What is rebellion? Not believing what Christ said was true. And then you have the Apostles.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure what you were checking 30 bibles for but hands down Christ and the Apostles told people to be baptized. It is a matter of believing and being baptized. Now do you want go through how many times in the Bible that baptism is discussed in regard to it connection when people believed. There was a sense of urgency to be baptized as soon as they believed.

"he that believeth not shall be damned."
Amen! And that was the perfect place for Jesus to say "he that is not baptized shall be damned." He didn't.

So you're saying all who are not baptized your way are damned?

 

[Tong2020]

Hello Tong,

For 2000 years the Church has affirmed that Baptism indeed conveys the Grace that it also signifies.

If it does not, why bother? Did Jesus give us empty rituals or the means to receive Grace, through the power of the Holy Spirit?

Regarding your first statement, perhaps you can say that. But even at the very days of the apostles, there were already many false prophets, false apostles, false brethren and many antiChrists, even among the church that teach false teachings that perverts the gospel of Jesus Christ. So, not all traditions you believe practiced by the church for 2000 years now could be basis for truth and doctrine, as it would be unwise because we may err. But this is what scriptures says "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,".

And so I repeat, saved by grace does not mean saved by baptism with water. What scriptures clearly say is that we are saved by grace through faith, not through water baptism or anything else for that matter.

Indeed, and the whole household was baptised, following the Way of salvation as the apostles taught..

The unbeliever asked "what must I do to be saved?"

Scriptures give this answer, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

You jumped over the answer of scriptures there and right into baptism making it appear as though it was through or because of baptism that they were saved. Nor sir. They were saved through faith ~ they believed, he and his household. And having believed and are saved, they have submitted themselves to be baptized with water. And that is not so that they will be saved, but that was so because they have truly believed.

Are you setting me up as judge?

No Sir, not at all. In my questions, the truthfulness of their faith is a given, so there is no judgement involve, but only understanding of scriptures in relation to salvation and water baptism. So, I hope you don't evade the questions and give your honest answers to the two simple questions.

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?

2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

It is in baptism that we die with Christ and are reborn into the family of God.
Those who have not been baptised, i leave in the hands of the One who will judge all of us, the One who will judge righteously and with mercy..

I would have to say that, any true believer, who is saved through faith, who had accepted Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior, certainly finds himself wanting to be baptized in obedience to the will and commandments of the Lord, and so he will get himself baptized.

You said " Those who have not been baptised, i leave in the hands of the One who will judge all of us, the One who will judge righteously and with mercy.." I would say all, baptised or not baptised, will be under the judgement of God. But them who truly believed in their hearts are not condemned, for there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

Tong
R0789

 

[Philip James]

I would say all, baptised or not baptised, will be under the judgement of God.

On this you and I agree.

'to him who has been given much, much is expected'

Peace be with you!

 

[Grailhunter]

"he that believeth not shall be damned."
Amen! And that was the perfect place for Jesus to say "he that is not baptized shall be damned." He didn't.

So you're saying all who are not baptized your way are damned?

Not my way...Christ's Way. I could care less. This is the reason I say you cannot read the scriptures like they are the latest edition of the Sunday Paper. What does belief mean in that culture? What does faith mean in that culture? Christ and the Apostles told them to believe and be baptized, and that is what they did with urgency. Does belief mean to disregard what Christ and the Apostles said. Does it mean to start your own gospel of salvation. Start your own religion that does not require baptism. And again as I always said, Belief does not forgo judgment. If a person chooses not to be baptized they will get to argue their point with Christ and it is His judgment that will send them on to heaven or down to hell. But some will find that disobedience is rebellion.

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

Matthew 7:21-25
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.

And we have not touched on the topic of the bread and wine ritual...lol