How could the Messiah be sinless?

[DNB]

Oh please. To worship a man is blasphemy. And the Jewish Messiah was quite aware of that, yet he allowed people to worship him.

Oh please, that's a cliché that you trinitarians keep using, yet cannot prove it. Jesus allowed prostration before him because he is King of Kings. All throughout the OT men prostrated themselves accordingly, before other men.

Like I said, stop this petty defense using isolated and inferred passages, and give me 10 paragraphs that are explicit and didactic defining how God became man. For, if it were true, it would be incumbent upon the NT authors to impart such an enigmatic and unfathomable concept, and according to you, necessary for salvation, in such a manner.

Like I also said, this can be done for the three major revelations of the NT (faith over works, suffering Messiah, Gentiles into the kingdom). We have prophetical attestation (defined by inspired writers), OT correlations and typologies (defined by inspired writers), explicit and didactic passages. One cannot even find the words trinity, three-in-one persons, two-in-one natures, triune, god-man, God the son, God the Holy Spirit, etc... from anywhere in the Bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

"worship" doesn't really mean "worship"...

Heb 1:6, And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

 

[Pearl]

The topic is Jesus' pre-existence.

Who is doubting that?

 

[Renniks]

God-given authority, of which ion the end, he hands it all over to God and becomes subordinate to God. It doesn't mean every particle and atom, nor does it mean absolute authority. But, for the sake of righteousness and judgement, Christ rules as king. Honestly Renniks, you are being hyper-literal about everything, and thus, I believe, missing the point as to his reign and to what his actual jurisdiction is. You are citing ambiguous passages as far as his deity is concerned, and then eisegeting your preconceived views into them. You are continuously jumping to conclusions where the verses just do not warrant it.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28
15:27. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

 

[Renniks]

Oh please, that's a cliché that you trinitarians keep using, yet cannot prove it. Jesus allowed prostration before him because he is King of Kings. All throughout the OT men prostrated themselves accordingly, before other men.

Like I said, stop this petty defense using isolated and inferred passages, and give me 10 paragraphs that are explicit and didactic defining how God became man. For, if it were true, it would be incumbent upon the NT authors to impart such an enigmatic and unfathomable concept, and according to you, necessary for salvation, in such a manner.

Like I also said, this can be done for the three major revelations of the NT (faith over works, suffering Messiah, Gentiles into the kingdom). We have prophetical attestation (defined by inspired writers), OT correlations and typologies (defined by inspired writers), explicit and didactic passages. One cannot even find the words trinity, three-in-one persons, two-in-one natures, triune, god-man, God the son, God the Holy Spirit, etc... from anywhere in the Bible.

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Colossians 2:8, 9

Exodus 3:14

And God said, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, *I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8:58

Jesus said, unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Isaiah 44:6

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Revelation 22:13

I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

John 10:30

I and my Father are one.

Isaiah 43:10, 11

You are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Luke 2:11

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

(In Isaiah God says "beside me there is no saviour," in Luke Christ is called the saviour).

Micah 5:2

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Matthew 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

[DNB]

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

You're not reading the passages thoroughly. God chose to reconcile all things through him, and all things were created for him, and through him, as in via - with him in mind. He is the first-born from the dead (ascended into heaven), so that he might have supremacy, not because he had it already.
We are all created in God's image, Christ reached perfection, therefore he truly reflected God's image and was rewarded accordingly for it. First-born over all creation, he was the reason why all things were created, despite God playing history out in a reverse manner - Adam was chronologically the first-born, but Jesus was destined before time, to be the head of all things even though he came 4,000 years after Adam. This is the mystery, not his ontology. God was pleased to reconcile all things under him, in other words, it was a decision not an inherent obligation or irrevocable necessity.

 

[DNB]

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Colossians 2:8, 9

Exodus 3:14

And God said, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, *I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 8:58

Jesus said, unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Isaiah 44:6

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Revelation 22:13

I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

John 10:30

I and my Father are one.

Isaiah 43:10, 11

You are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Luke 2:11

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

(In Isaiah God says "beside me there is no saviour," in Luke Christ is called the saviour).

Micah 5:2

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Matthew 1:23

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Divine appellations are used throughout the Bible, for mere men. Moses was saviour to Israel, just as David was, as were the Judges, etc...
Emmanuel is theophory, just like Ezekiel, Gabriel, Michael, Elizabeth, ... Plus, God abandoned the Israelites, but now he is fulfilling His promises. God is with Israel again. (Luke 1:54-55)
Your Micah 5:2 is a bad translation.
You're correlating passages that do not warrant it (I Am). Be one, just as I and the Father are one (I shouldn't need to explain this)

 

[Tong2020]

The Christian can learn from scriptures that it is possible for man to please God only with faith, and whatever is not from faith is sin.

How could the Messiah be sinless?

Answer: Through faith.

Tong
R0799

 

[OzSpen]

Who is doubting that?

Many I encounter.

 

[Tong2020]

Because He is God in the flesh.

I don't think that is a proper answer to the OP question: How could the Messiah be sinless?

For while the Messiah is God in the flesh, the question is only valid if it is asked relative to His humanity.

Tong
R0800

 

[Tong2020]

Jesus was not A human.

Jesus was. The Messiah is God in the flesh.

As with regards the OP question, "How could the Messiah be sinless?", that is only valid if it is asked relative to His humanity. Appealing to His Deity, I'd say, is an improper answer.

Tong
R0801

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't think that is a proper answer to the OP question: How could the Messiah be sinless?

For while the Messiah is God in the flesh, the question is only valid if it is asked relative to His humanity.

Tong
R0800

He most certainly cannot have sin in His Deity.

And since His Deity and humanity are inexplicably intertwined, I don't believe that He can have sin in His humanity either.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus was. The Messiah is God in the flesh.

As with regards the OP question, "How could the Messiah be sinless?", that is only valid if it is asked relative to His humanity. Appealing to His Deity, I'd say, is an improper answer.

Tong
R0801

It is a satanic proposition to suggest that the risen Jesus Christ might be tainted by sin; it would mean that satan got the victory.

What this would mean for everything is that evil would turn in on itself eventually.

Endless battles and wars until there is only one or none left standing.

 

[Tong2020]

He most certainly cannot have sin in His Deity.

And since His Deity and humanity are inexplicably intertwined, I don't believe that He can have sin in His humanity either.

Of course, in His Deity, He cannot sin. That's why I said, I don't think that is a proper answer to the OP question: How could the Messiah be sinless? The question is only valid if it is asked relative to His humanity.

Tong
R0802

 

[Tong2020]

It is a satanic proposition to suggest that the risen Jesus Christ might be tainted by sin; it would mean that satan got the victory.

What this would mean for everything is that evil would turn in on itself eventually.

Endless battles and wars until there is only one or none left standing.

I am not in any way, shape or form suggesting that risen Jesus Christ might be tainted by sin. That's a misunderstanding of what I posted, as follows:

Jesus was. The Messiah is God in the flesh.

As with regards the OP question, "How could the Messiah be sinless?", that is only valid if it is asked relative to His humanity. Appealing to His Deity, I'd say, is an improper answer.

Tong
R0803

 

[Taken]

Jesus was.

Jesus was A human?
Don't humans come from the Dust of the Earth?
Jesus came from the Dust of the Earth?

Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

Gen 3:
[19] ... dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Job 34:
[15] All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Pss 104:
[29 ... thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Ecc 3:
[20] All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Tong2020]

Jesus was A human?
Don't humans come from the Dust of the Earth?
Jesus came from the Dust of the Earth?

Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

Gen 3:
[19] ... dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Job 34:
[15] All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Pss 104:
[29 ... thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Ecc 3:
[20] All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.


Glory to God,
Taken

I was formed in my mom's womb. How about you? Were you formed like Adam was formed? How about Jesus, was He not formed in Mary's womb?

After God formed Adam of the dust of the earth and Eve from Adam's body, the generation of mankind was not like so, but by the coming together of man and woman in sexual union, man being formed in the mother's womb.

And does not the human being called "man"?

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Tong
R0805

 

[Taken]

I was formed in my mom's womb.

That's nice.
But "where" you were Formed was not the point.

How about you? Were you formed like Adam was formed? [/B]

Formed like Adam? Yes
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man...

How about Jesus, was He not formed in Mary's womb?

Scripture says God Prepared a Body for Jesus.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

After God formed Adam of the dust of the earth and Eve from Adam's body, the generation of mankind was not like so, but by the coming together of man and woman in sexual union, man being formed in the mother's womb.

So Who Exactly came TOGETHER IN A SEXUAL UNION TO procreate Jesus?

And does not the human being called "man"?

Do men call things as they SEE Them?
If a man SEES a person that LOOKS "LIKE" a Woman...Does he call that person A Woman?
Does that mean the person IS a woman?
What about a person wearing a Gorilla costume...could a Person call him a Gorilla?
People call thing by the appearance they Can See.
Have YOU Learned Jesus came to Earth Expressly in the Likeness Look as an Earthly man?
Have YOU Learned the Truth, He is The Word, Wisdom, Truth and Power of God...NOT a human man?

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

I have no issue calling Jesus "a man"...
Clearly I disagree "with men Making and Calling Jesus A "Human" man."
Scripture never taught Jesus was a Human man.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

The Bible clearly says that every human will sin someday:

There is no human who does not sin. (1 Kings 8:46)

But then how could the Messiah be sinless?

I would say that the spirit in the Messiah was not a human spirit but the spirit of God. The Spirit of God in the flesh, therefore John 1:1 and 14. But then one asks oneself the question, did the incarnation of the Spirit create another person separated from the father? Should one think that God has begotten a real son? That God has begotten a real son sounds illogical to me, since this would then be a second God, but if the Messiah is the Father, one would have to ask oneself why the Bible constantly separates the Son from the Father.

Jesus is God wrapped in Human Flesh.
And because His Father is not a "human", the SEED that created Jesus is not human seed.
And because of this He was not born with the nature (adamic nature)(fallen) of the First Adam.
This is why Jesus is the 2nd Adam. Created by God, as God in the Flesh, sinless.

 

[Pearl]

Many I encounter.

Sad.