Salvation Through Baptism ???

[mailmandan]

We should take all of what Chrysostom had to say about faith instead of quoting out of context like you did:

Since though he has said here, He that believes in the Son has eternal life, and in the same place something even stronger, (for he weaves his discourse not of blessings only, but of their contraries also, speaking thus: He that believes not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him;) yet not even from this do we assert that faith alone is sufficient to salvation. And the directions for living given in many places of the Gospels show this. Therefore he did not say, This by itself is eternal life, nor, He that does but believe in the Son has eternal life, but by both expressions he declared this, that the thing does contain life, yet that if a right conversation follow not, there will follow a heavy punishment

Keeping it real....Mary

Did he not say faith alone? How many ways can you interpret - "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed." Martin Luther was not the first person to mention faith alone.

Saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is sufficient for me, regardless of what anyone else says. 1 John 5:11-13 clearly states that eternal life is in the Son (Jesus Christ) and those who believe in the name of the Son of God may know that they have eternal life. So you can quote uninspired writings all day long to try and prove otherwise, but you are not fooling me.

 

[Marymog]

I don't support beliefs that promote transubstantiation or salvation by works, which contradict faith alone.

Oh....I see! When Basil adheres to your beliefs you agree with him but when Basil disagrees with your beliefs disagree with him which makes you always right.

Thank you for your time!

 

[Marymog]

Did he not say faith alone? How many ways can you interpret - "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed." Martin Luther was not the first person to mention faith alone.

Saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is sufficient for me, regardless of what anyone else says. 1 John 5:11-13 clearly states that eternal life is in the Son (Jesus Christ) and those who believe in the name of the Son of God may know that they have eternal life. So you can quote uninspired writings all day long to try and prove otherwise, but you are not fooling me.

Yup....he used the words “faith alone”. Case closed.

 

[mailmandan]

Oh....I see! When Basil adheres to your beliefs you agree with him but when Basil disagrees with your beliefs disagree with him which makes you always right.

Thank you for your time!

I was simply making the point that Basil said "faith alone" and others said "faith alone" before Martin Luther. Now if Basil actually taught otherwise and contradicted himself, then that's on him. Ultimately, scripture is our source of infallible truth and not fallible writings from fallible men.

 

[mailmandan]

Yup....he used the words “faith alone”. Case closed.

Thank you. So Martin Luther was not the first person to use the words "faith alone." Case closed.

 

[Candidus]

Follow Jesus. Absurd! Ridiculus!
He said the world would say that.
Follow Jesus.
He got immersed ... He said My sheep Hear My Voice and Follow Me....
So we get immersed.
Simple.
They did , each one, as written in Scripture, in the first century.
Those who follow Jesus,
who do not listen to other voices,
get immersed in His Name today.
Simple and truth.

Jesus was not immersed in Baptism, therefore we are not to be immersed in water.

 

[Mr C]

Which part of the Family of God you belong to because only God knows?

Read John 3:6-8!!!

To God Be The Glory

(1Jn 2:3-6) - Here is how I can KNOW I have a relationship with God.



1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[Marymog]

Did he not say faith alone? How many ways can you interpret - "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed." Martin Luther was not the first person to mention faith alone.

Saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is sufficient for me, regardless of what anyone else says. 1 John 5:11-13 clearly states that eternal life is in the Son (Jesus Christ) and those who believe in the name of the Son of God may know that they have eternal life. So you can quote uninspired writings all day long to try and prove otherwise, but you are not fooling me.

Since this thread is about baptism: Do you agree with Chrysostosm on baptism?

 

[Marymog]

I was simply making the point that Basil said "faith alone" and others said "faith alone" before Martin Luther. Now if Basil actually taught otherwise and contradicted himself, then that's on him. Ultimately, scripture is our source of infallible truth and not fallible writings from fallible men.

You are right. Basil spoke of faith alone BEFORE Martin Luther. Like my daddy used to day: Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Have you personally been able to discern the “infallible truth” from Scripture?

Mary

 

[Mr C]

So, perhaps then you can tell us, Noah was saved from what?

Tell us, how had water saved Noah?

A correct understanding of 1 Pet. 3:20,21 is one that points to this truth, that it is God who saved Noah, and not any one else nor anything else.

Tong
R0851

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The good conscience comes from doing as commanded in (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) and (Mark 16:16).

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Jesus was not immersed in Baptism, therefore we are not to be immersed in water.

Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

 

[mailmandan]

Since this thread is about baptism: Do you agree with Chrysostosm on baptism?

Not if he teaches baptismal regeneration/saved by water baptism/immersed or condemned. Who was primarily responsible for copying and preserving the writings of the church fathers and were their writings infallible?

 

[Mr C]

And? Tell us, how can you know that your sins are forgiven?

Tong
R0853

(Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ;16:30-34 ; 22:16) (1Peter 3:20,21)

(Rom.6:3-18)

16. Decide who to serve.
17. OBEY a certain doctrine (Rom. 6:3-6) (Gal,3:27)
18. BEING THEN FREED FROM SINS, ye became servants of righteousness (Christians)

 

[Mr C]

So faith alone mainly began with Martin Luther in the 1500's and prior to that, nobody taught faith alone you say? Here are some quotes of men teaching faith alone prior to the 1500's.

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."

You need to understand that salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone does not mean that we are saved by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14-24) It means that we are saved the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

So much for following Luther, yet you still follow Campbell.

I did not say that. I said Luther taught it MAINLY.

Do not change my words like you change the word of God.

 

[mailmandan]

You are right. Basil spoke of faith alone BEFORE Martin Luther.

Thank you! :)

Like my daddy used to day: Two wrongs don’t make a right.

There is nothing wrong about faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone.

Have you personally been able to discern the “infallible truth” from Scripture?

The infallible truth in regards to salvation. What about you? Does the Roman Catholic church explain it for you?

 

[mailmandan]

I did not say that. I said Luther taught it MAINLY.

Do not change my words like you change the word of God.

I also said mainly and "prior to that, nobody taught faith alone you say?" was in the form of a question (with a bit of sarcasm) so I was not trying to change your words. You change the word of God by perverting the gospel.

 

[mailmandan]

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The good conscience comes from doing as commanded in (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) and (Mark 16:16).

Go back and read post #871 again and this time remove the blinders.

Salvation Through Baptism ???

 

[user]

Amen! Man is saved by grace through faith not faith and water baptism. (Ephesians 2:8)

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You quoted John 3:18 and took your stand, but you have not finished reading it...

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
(If I study hard for a test, I should pass).

Let's continue...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
John 4:3 He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee.


You believe in the Lord, you SHOULD not die unsaved, but you must OBEY the salvation plan (which includes water baptism)...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

God Bless!

 

[Mr C]

Go back and read post #871 again and this time remove the blinders.

Salvation Through Baptism ???

I had rather read God's word.

 

[Mr C]

I also said mainly and "prior to that, nobody taught faith alone you say?" was in the form of a question (with a bit of sarcasm) so I was not trying to change your words. You change the word of God by perverting the gospel.

But I did not say no one taught faith alone before Luther. You had to ADD that so you could make a point. Just as you ADD the word ALONE to faith. (Like Luther)