Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Tong2020]

The issue is "believe" and NOT who or isn't eligible.

BTW, faith is a gift!

To God Be The Glory

Then you should be careful enough to not involve them (devils/demons) who aren't included, even make them an example to make your point, in the matter of faith and salvation, making such cheap, false, and invalid argument which I quote here:

”believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” but the devils/demons also believe. So what? They are not saved!

False because devils/demons do not believe, as in have faith, in the Lord Jesus Christ. Besides, there is nothing that demons/devils could do for them to be saved. There simply is no grace of salvation for them.

You can try to think for another way to make your point.

Tong
R0852

 

[Tong2020]

One can tell WHEN one is saved by knowing WHEN our sins are forgiven (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8 ;5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16).

And? Tell us, how can you know that your sins are forgiven?

Tong
R0853

 

[Tong2020]

Why do you keep teaching God saves through faith?

And why not? Scriptures clearly teach God saves through faith (Eph.2:8). Do you want me to stop teaching what scriptures teach? Do you want me instead to teach what you teach? God or you? Without even thinking, I absolutely choose God.

If you have faith why do you need to exercise it?

Please express yourself or your point more clearly. For you already have asked me this and I have already addressed it.

Tong
R0854

 

[Tong2020]

Both and more.....just like scripture says.

Perhaps according to human discernment and understanding, but not according to how scriptures is understood, that is, through spiritual discernment and understanding.

Consider this truth in scriptures: From since the beginning, the salvation of God is by God's grace through faith. That is the way of the Lord concerning His salvation of man yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The salvation of God was never through baptism in any way shape or form in the past from the beginning until before the cross, so there is no reason why that should change after the cross, more so that man should think it changed nor God changed.

The many things the Christians read in scriptures that seems to say that something saves or that which saves them, such as repenting and getting water baptized, are but the things that those whom He saves are persuaded and moved (by faith through which God saves) to do, all being the outworking of His salvation concerning them.

Tong
R0855

 

[mailmandan]

You need to read the bible (authored by God) more than you read the history books (authored by men).

Churches of Christ (Rom. 16:16)

Body of Christ (Rom.7:4)(1Cor. 10:16 ; 12:27) (Eph.4:12)

The Body of Christ = The Church of Christ (Eph.1:22,23) (Col.1:18,24)

Just try and find the Baptist Church in the NT. (it's not there)

I knew it! You do attend the church of Christ. That explains your absolute obsession with water baptism! I at one time had temporarily attended the so called church of Christ several years ago and it seemed like water baptism was about the only thing the preacher at the church talked about. When Paul refers to the "churches of Christ" in Romans 16:16, he is not talking about the modern day church of Christ denomination, (Campbellism) but the Church, the body of Christ, that is made up of all born again Christians/believers (Romans 7:4; 1 Corinthians 10:16; Ephesians 1:22,23; 4:12; Colossians 1:18,24) and that is not merely limited to a group of people who only attend a particular church denomination or simply to a church building with a name stamped on the front of it.

So that's your logic for believing that ONLY your church is the body of Christ? Because of its name? You actually bought into that sales pitch?

When I was a teenager, I had temporarily attended the so called "church of Christ" and they taught me that ONLY "their" church is the "true Church" and they quoted Romans 16:16 in an effort to support their claim, because it mentions the specific name, "churches of Christ. Such a silly claim! I guess that those who attend the "church of God" denomination could also try to use these verses (Acts 20:28; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 1 Corinthians 10:32; 1 Corinthians 11:22 etc..) in an effort to teach that ONLY their church is the "body of Christ" as well, because those verses use the specific name, "church of God."

 

[Joseph77]

Follow Jesus. Absurd! Ridiculus!
He said the world would say that.
Follow Jesus.
He got immersed ... He said My sheep Hear My Voice and Follow Me....
So we get immersed.
Simple.
They did , each one, as written in Scripture, in the first century.
Those who follow Jesus,
who do not listen to other voices,
get immersed in His Name today.
Simple and truth.

 

[mailmandan]

You teach faith alone and it began mainly with Martin Luther. (in the 1500s)

You follow Luther.

Calling people "Campbellites" is Juvenile. (according to you)

So faith alone mainly began with Martin Luther in the 1500's and prior to that, nobody taught faith alone you say? Here are some quotes of men teaching faith alone prior to the 1500's.

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."

You need to understand that salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone does not mean that we are saved by an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14-24) It means that we are saved the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

So much for following Luther, yet you still follow Campbell.

 

[Joseph77]

In faith in Jesus, be immersed.

 

[Marymog]

Perhaps according to human discernment and understanding, but not according to how scriptures is understood, that is, through spiritual discernment and understanding.

Consider this truth in scriptures: From since the beginning, the salvation of God is by God's grace through faith. That is the way of the Lord concerning His salvation of man yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The salvation of God was never through baptism in any way shape or form in the past from the beginning until before the cross, so there is no reason why that should change after the cross, more so that man should think it changed nor God changed.

The many things the Christians read in scriptures that seems to say that something saves or that which saves them, such as repenting and getting water baptized, are but the things that those whom He saves are persuaded and moved (by faith through which God saves) to do, all being the outworking of His salvation concerning them.

Tong
R0855

Hi tong,

Oh....I get it now. Those that believe “baptism now saves you” (1 Peter 3:21) and washes away your sin (Acts 22:16, 2:38) have been using “human discernment” for 2,000 years. But those that believe baptism doesn’t save you and doesn’t wash away your sin (not in the Bible) had “spiritual discernment”!!!

You win!!! I am converted!! I now believe what is not written in the Bible and have I joined your side.

Those stupid men like @BreadOfLife @Illuminator @Mr C and Justin Martyr and the eunuch that Philip baptized have fulfilled 2 Peter 3:16 They are using human discernment and understanding instead of spiritual discernment.

Thru Spiritual discernment I have decided not to obey the teachings of Christ and the Apostles and have decided baptism is NOT necessary And I will NOT baptize anyone (Matthew 28:19) because obeying the teachings of Christ and the Apostles is NOT necessary and never saved anyone.

Sorry my fellow “baptism now saves you” friends on this forum. I am now a follower of the 500 year teaching of men instead of the 2,000 year teaching of The Church. After all, according to my new spiritual teacher Tong, nothing changed after the Cross!! I was stupid to think it had.

Mary

 

[mailmandan]

YOU do not decide who has misinterpreted Scripture.

In many cases, it's not hard to figure out when someone has misinterpreted Scripture. Especially when it comes to someone perverting the gospel. The Holy Spirit does not leave believers without discernment. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

 

[mailmandan]

Yup.....853

How does post #853 answer, "if you believe that man is saved by faith AND WORKS, then there must be a set amount of works that must be accomplished in order to be saved." You have not listed a set amount of works.

 

[Mr C]

I knew it! You do attend the church of Christ. That explains your absolute obsession with water baptism! I at one time had temporarily attended the so called church of Christ several years ago and it seemed like water baptism was about the only thing the preacher at the church talked about. When Paul refers to the "churches of Christ" in Romans 16:16, he is not talking about the modern day church of Christ denomination, (Campbellism) but the Church, the body of Christ, that is made up of all born again Christians/believers (Romans 7:4; 1 Corinthians 10:16; Ephesians 1:22,23; 4:12; Colossians 1:18,24) and that is not merely limited to a group of people who only attend a particular church denomination or simply to a church building with a name stamped on the front of it.

So that's your logic for believing that ONLY your church is the body of Christ? Because of its name? You actually bought into that sales pitch?

When I was a teenager, I had temporarily attended the so called "church of Christ" and they taught me that ONLY "their" church is the "true Church" and they quoted Romans 16:16 in an effort to support their claim, because it mentions the specific name, "churches of Christ. Such a silly claim! I guess that those who attend the "church of God" denomination could also try to use these verses (Acts 20:28; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 1 Corinthians 10:32; 1 Corinthians 11:22 etc..) in an effort to teach that ONLY their church is the "body of Christ" as well, because those verses use the specific name, "church of God."

Try and find the Baptist Church in the NT. (Not there)

Neither is faith ALONE.

You add the word ALONE to the text and claim you are following God.

Satan just added one word (NOT) to the word of God in (Gen. 3:1)

You are following Martin Luther. (faith alone)

 

[Marymog]

So faith alone mainly began with Martin Luther in the 1500's and prior to that, nobody taught faith alone you say? Here are some quotes of men teaching faith alone prior to the 1500's.

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."
.

Hi Mailmandan,

Since you are using Basil to support your beliefs on faith alone do you use him to support your beliefs on the Eucharist in what he wrote to a Patrician Lady Caesaria [ 372 A.D.]?

Curious Mary

 

[Joseph77]

Try and find the Baptist Church in the NT.

Since you mention it...
do you realize that the baptist church was around longer than the catholic one (the one that misleads people daily since it started)?

I did not know that either - it is hidden so well, so to speak.

It was not called "baptist" because English was not the language at the time - not for a long time.

The history is still preserved, and it is still difficult to find.... and it will stay that way....

 

[Marymog]

So faith alone mainly began with Martin Luther in the 1500's and prior to that, nobody taught faith alone you say? Here are some quotes of men teaching faith alone prior to the 1500's.

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not.".

Jerome also said this which seems to contradict what you quoted: Neither celibacy nor wedlock is of the slightest use without works, since even faith, the distinguishing mark of Christians, if it have not works, is said to be dead, and on such terms as these the virgins of Vesta or of Juno, who was constant to one husband, might claim to be numbered among the saints.”

Which Jerome do you choose? Faith alone Jerome or faith without works is dead Jerome?

 

[Mr C]

In faith in Jesus, be immersed.

What about CONFESSING Jesus is the Son of God? (Rom. 10:9,10)

Notice the word "IF" (upon the condition that) in (Rom. 10:9,10).

That one word "IF" DESTROYS the faith ALONE doctrine.

 

[Marymog]

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

We should take all of what Chrysostom had to say about faith instead of quoting out of context like you did:

Since though he has said here, He that believes in the Son has eternal life, and in the same place something even stronger, (for he weaves his discourse not of blessings only, but of their contraries also, speaking thus: He that believes not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him yet not even from this do we assert that faith alone is sufficient to salvation. And the directions for living given in many places of the Gospels show this. Therefore he did not say, This by itself is eternal life, nor, He that does but believe in the Son has eternal life, but by both expressions he declared this, that the thing does contain life, yet that if a right conversation follow not, there will follow a heavy punishment

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Marymog]

How does post #853 answer, "if you believe that man is saved by faith AND WORKS, then there must be a set amount of works that must be accomplished in order to be saved." You have not listed a set amount of works.

And you did not list a set amount of “confessions with your mouth”.

Why are you holding me to a higher standard then you hold yourself?

Curious Mary

 

[mailmandan]

Hi Mailmandan,

Since you are using Basil to support your beliefs on faith alone do you use him to support your beliefs on the Eucharist in what he wrote to a Patrician Lady Caesaria [ 372 A.D.]?

Curious Mary

I don't support beliefs that promote transubstantiation or salvation by works, which contradict faith alone.

 

[Mr C]

Since you mention it...
do you realize that the baptist church was around longer than the catholic one (the one that misleads people daily since it started)?

I did not know that either - it is hidden so well, so to speak.

It was not called "baptist" because English was not the language at the time - not for a long time.

The history is still preserved, and it is still difficult to find.... and it will stay that way....

The Baptist Church was not established until the 1500s.

That is about 1500 yrs too late.

The Baptist Faith and Message (a creed book) says baptism once was the door into the church and it afforded one all the blessings of Christ BUT NOW IT HAS CHANGED.

Question - Who changed it?

Did the BAPTIST have the authority to change Gods Holy Word?

Answer - NO!!!