I totally disagree with Calvin teachings..
You can ignore me all you want; this is why the church little “c” is so blind they cannot look beyond their broken cisterns. I guess I am irritating because I have no problem standing up to man made doctrine based on assumptions and not God’s Word.
Ezekiel 18 again has nothing to do with salvation, salvation comes by the blood of Jesus and not the law of Moses. NT not old.
I know many of you find it difficult to dig beyond the letter that killeth.
"Let God be true, though every man be false" (Rom. 3:4).
I have always hated the way traditional teaching has used this awesome verse in the Bible on one hand to point to salvation which it does; but on the other hand condemn the rest of humanity which it does not
(KJV) John 3 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should (not perish,) should be omitted), but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that (whosoever, should be "all") (believeth, should be that "all believing") in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Now we will look at a passage in the New Testament; viz., that precious declaration in John 3:16,
"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son," etc. We will take into consideration verses 14-17 inclusive; first I will clear up several points of obscurity and error and then give the rendering as it should be.
In verse 15 the words "not perish but" should be omitted; according to the best authorities they have been interpolated, probably from the following verse; they are left out from the New Version.
Strong's Whosoever 3956 pas ;including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: KJV-- all (manner of, means), alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
The word "whosoever" in the l5th and l6th verses should be rendered "all"; in the original it is the word usually rendered all throughout the New Testament; it occurs hundreds of times, and it is rendered "all" in over nine hundred instances, and whosoever in only about forty; the rendering all then is plainly the usual one.
The word rendered "believeth," in the original is a participle, "believing"; the clause should read, "that all, believing in him should not," etc. The words, "believing in him," are explanatory, telling us how "all" are to be saved, viz, by believing in him. In the common version it will be noticed that the participle is, without authority, rendered by the verb "believeth," and the words, "whosoever believeth in him" are thereby made to have a conditional force, as though it read, if they believe in him, implying that some will not believe in him, and hence will perish, and be lost eternally.
But this is not a correct rendering of the original, as I have shown above; the clause is not conditional, but is thrown in, as a participial form, as explanatory of the manner of the world's salvation, by believing in him; this view is fully confirmed by the l9th verse; "for God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved."
Might be saved: Stong's 4982 sozo (sode'-zo); from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): KJV-- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be
(make) whole. The word “might” was added by the translator
Now I will give the whole passage as it ought to be.
"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the son of man be lifted up, that all, believing in him. might have æonial life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that all, believing in him, might not perish, but have æonial life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him be saved."
Thus truthfully translated this passage is one of the grandest and most sweeping declarations of the final universal triumph of God's grace in the salvation of the world, contained in the Bible. It is positive and direct, and mighty enough, could they only appreciate it, to utterly silence all those narrow, shortsighted souls who think that God will only gain a partial victory over the devil, that he will not save the world, but only a portion of it, a vast number being eternally lost. It is very plain why the translators of the common version handled this passage as they did. Their creed would not allow them to accept it just as it reads; it required only a slight change to make it conform to their own idea. They insert the unusual rendering "whosoever," change believing to "believeth," and then, punctuating it accordingly, the passage is "tinkered" so as to harmonize with the creed. Thank God for deliverance from man made creeds!
Young’s Literal John 3:14 `And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up, 15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. 17 For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;
Benoni, sometimes you are irritating, but it is your ignorance of Scripture combined with your "unique" thoughts on God that bother me personally the most. For instance you stated that "no where in God's very deep and complex Word is there any verse that declares man chooses his salvation,". Nothing could be more wrong about God's desires for us. In fact, Ezekiel dedicated an entire chapter to God telling us to turn away from sin and choose Him instead. That would be chapter 18 if you want to check it out. And if you just want a thumbnail of the contents, concentrate on v. 31.
Even John 3:16 (actually John 3:15 through 18) tells us very plainly that salvation can be obtained by anyone who personally establishes a belief in Jesus as the Son of God. For you to state the opposite is simply unacceptable to me. I do not know anything about you other than what you have written on this site, but I would hazard a guess that you are a follower of Calvinism.
So I will personally ignore your writings from now on.
Rank Stranger
And your point?
Rom.6:17
And your point?
Would you please post a verse that declares Adam and Eve cause the fall because they had a freewill as you claim?
If God is not in control then who is in control? So you are saying little bitti man has control of things and God is helpless? Sounds like a god, not God.
Hi Benoni, God did not cause Adam and Eve to fall, like us they had free will, even satan had free will, they chose to disobey God and now we see the consequences of their actions, No God is not always in control, the amount of control He has is dictated by how much room we give Him to move, and sadly we give Him very little. Yet in the end His Will ,will be done. His final plan will come to fruition no matter what we do, that is something we cannot change. Sometimes I wish He would warn us of the consequencs, do you really think that Eve would of eatne that fruit if God had shown Her all the trouble it would have brought, and yet we tell our kids dont play with fire for it will burn you, and it wil realy hurt, but what do they do, they go and play with fire, they get burnt, it really hurts, they soon discover, then they go runnning to mum or dad to fix it all, But hopefully they wont do it again.