IT IS THE GLORY OF GOD TO CONCEAL A MATTER...

[Truman]

After searching God's word like I was looking for gold, there are a few things I've learned about sanctification. These include the 3 stages of salvation.
1. Justification: This is our spirit's salvation. When one first believes the message of John 3:16., and they confess to being a sinner in need of a savior, repent (the first step towards walking in repentance), and accept Jesus, they are, in the court of God's law, found innocent. This legally allows the Kingdom Of God to advance further in one's life. One's spirit is also reborn of uncorruptible seed. The reborn spirit will never sin again. - 1 Peter 1;23 Sin is in the soul. - 1 Peter 1:9
2. Sanctification: This is our soul's salvation. At a certain point in my life, God started to prepare me for the start of my sanctification. After I was broken, He led me to a para-church ministry (all staff have a home church) that works closely with the church at large, and even the unsaved were (and still are) welcomed with open arms. I got to live with these people for nearly a week. During that time, I went from being an immature, carnal believer to a disciple of Christ, according to Luke 9:29.
3. Glorification: This is our body's salvation. 1 John 3:2
I like to think of it this way: He who was - justification.
He who is - sanctification.
He who is to come - glorification.
I hope this will give you a clearer picture of scripture - based, salvation and it's 3 phases. All credit for the above goes to God. Shalom. P.S. If you want more addresses, look it up. Become a scripture digger. You'll never know what you'll find.

 

[Episkopos]

After searching God's word like I was looking for gold, there are a few things I've learned about sanctification. These include the 3 stages of salvation.
1. Justification: This is our spirit's salvation. When one first believes the message of John 3:16., and they confess to being a sinner in need of a savior, repent (the first step towards walking in repentance), and accept Jesus, they are, in the court of God's law, found innocent. This legally allows the Kingdom Of God to advance further in one's life. One's spirit is also reborn of uncorruptible seed. The reborn spirit will never sin again. - 1 Peter 1;23 Sin is in the soul. - 1 Peter 1:9
2. Sanctification: This is our soul's salvation. At a certain point in my life, God started to prepare me for the start of my sanctification. After I was broken, He led me to a para-church ministry (all staff have a home church) that works closely with the church at large, and even the unsaved were (and still are) welcomed with open arms. I got to live with these people for nearly a week. During that time, I went from being an immature, carnal believer to a disciple of Christ, according to Luke 9:29.
3. Glorification: This is our body's salvation. 1 John 3:2
I like to think of it this way: He who was - justification.
He who is - sanctification.
He who is to come - glorification.
I hope this will give you a clearer picture of scripture - based, salvation and it's 3 phases. All credit for the above goes to God. Shalom. P.S. If you want more addresses, look it up. Become a scripture digger. You'll never know what you'll find.

This is good. It works on one level. And it is a working understanding that can yield good fruit. As long as it is realized that each of your categories has a double-edge. There is a righteousness side and a holiness side to each.

The publican was justified by God because he was honest...not because he was justified by the Spirit. So one can be justified without actually entering into Christ. God judges according to what we have been given. It is the believers that will receive the harder judgment...IF they judge from themselves and claim too much justification for themselves without an actual faithfulness. The sheep and goat judgment (Mat. 25) is about that very thing...being justified without knowing it.

Sanctification is also an instant gift in holiness...where one puts on Christ to walk as He walked...with NO work or time spent trying at all. It is a gift. It is we putting on His perfection by grace through faith. Of course this is VERY rare in our time. So rare that I think people have no idea what this is. The point of the wilderness walk...away from the walk IN the Spirit...is to learn to walk in obedience and faithfulness. God will not allow an unholy people into holiness.

Some will be resurrected to a glorified body for honour...and some will receive a new body for shame and dishonour. These will be naked and cover themselves with the earth to hide themselves. So there is more than than one outcome. The new body is not necessarily unto glory. The Potter makes both vessels of honour and dishonour...from the very same lump.

Romans 9:21
“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?”

 

[Episkopos]

So let's break it down further.

Please read the whole post.... ;)

We are justified both by faith and by works.

James 2:24 You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Paul never said that a man cannot be justified by works. He was saying that there is a justification by faith APART from works. And that is something that James affirms. It should be obvious that a man is justified by what he does or doesn't do. In fact judgment is ONLY about that...not what we have believed.

But that simple logic has been lost in the modern church. We have exchanged the truth of God for a lie to make God as a religious Rumpelstiltskin that gets angry if you don't get his name right. People have rejected what is right for what is easy and convenient. But human opinions and beliefs can never fulfill the will of God. God judges with true righteousness. He is not looking for human lip service and great claims of beliefs in Him (that are primarily directed at self-preservation anyway). So the miscalculation of what it takes to be saved is enormous.

Now a man who is justified by works doesn't realize he is righteous. The righteous don't think of themselves as righteous but only as sinners. The word says that the publican went away justified...but it doesn't say..the publican want away THINKING HE WAS JUSTIFIED. Only modern Christians make that mistake.

Likewise Abraham was counted righteous by God (apart from Christ)...but Abraham never counted himself as righteous. Abraham, as a righteous man, would only have seen himself as a frail sinner.

So then the unjust believers of today condemn themselves to injustice and transgression even as they judge others for actually being righteous in God's eyes...although they deny it.

So this can be said of today's religion...

Is. 5:21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Who is wise to resist the religious propaganda and see as God sees?

 

[DPMartin]

After searching God's word like I was looking for gold, there are a few things I've learned about sanctification. These include the 3 stages of salvation.
1. Justification: This is our spirit's salvation. When one first believes the message of John 3:16., and they confess to being a sinner in need of a savior, repent (the first step towards walking in repentance), and accept Jesus, they are, in the court of God's law, found innocent. This legally allows the Kingdom Of God to advance further in one's life. One's spirit is also reborn of uncorruptible seed. The reborn spirit will never sin again. - 1 Peter 1;23 Sin is in the soul. - 1 Peter 1:9
2. Sanctification: This is our soul's salvation. At a certain point in my life, God started to prepare me for the start of my sanctification. After I was broken, He led me to a para-church ministry (all staff have a home church) that works closely with the church at large, and even the unsaved were (and still are) welcomed with open arms. I got to live with these people for nearly a week. During that time, I went from being an immature, carnal believer to a disciple of Christ, according to Luke 9:29.
3. Glorification: This is our body's salvation. 1 John 3:2
I like to think of it this way: He who was - justification.
He who is - sanctification.
He who is to come - glorification.
I hope this will give you a clearer picture of scripture - based, salvation and it's 3 phases. All credit for the above goes to God. Shalom. P.S. If you want more addresses, look it up. Become a scripture digger. You'll never know what you'll find.

well justification is because once born again, that which is of Heaven is justified to be in Heaven, seeing one is born of that which is in Heaven. what is of God is justified to be with God and in the Presence of God, because it is of God. and for no other reason. when resurrected one receives the body Jesus has. the one you have now remains, in the earth it is the place of sin. as far as sanctification that's automatic by virtue of being born again. the Life received of Christ is separate from the life in the flesh in this world.

 

[Truman]

This is good. It works on one level. And it is a working understanding that can yield good fruit. As long as it is realized that each of your categories has a double-edge. There is a righteousness side and a holiness side to each.

The publican was justified by God because he was honest...not because he was justified by the Spirit. So one can be justified without actually entering into Christ. God judges according to what we have been given. It is the believers that will receive the harder judgment...IF they judge from themselves and claim too much justification for themselves without an actual faithfulness. The sheep and goat judgment (Mat. 25) is about that very thing...being justified without knowing it.

Sanctification is also an instant gift in holiness...where one puts on Christ to walk as He walked...with NO work or time spent trying at all. It is a gift. It is we putting on His perfection by grace through faith. Of course this is VERY rare in our time. So rare that I think people have no idea what this is. The point of the wilderness walk...away from the walk IN the Spirit...is to learn to walk in obedience and faithfulness. God will not allow an unholy people into holiness.

Some will be resurrected to a glorified body for honour...and some will receive a new body for shame and dishonour. These will be naked and cover themselves with the earth to hide themselves. So there is more than than one outcome. The new body is not necessarily unto glory. The Potter makes both vessels of honour and dishonour...from the very same lump.

Romans 9:21
“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?”

Hi, Brother. I believe that the main lack in the church today is the lack of true spiritual maturity. I also believe that the main cause of this is an inaccurate understanding of sanctification. I do understand the thinking that says this is an attempt at adding to Christ's atonement, and while I agree that this would be a very bad thing to do, I insist that the Lord Jesus Christ taught me how to do this, through Christian leadership, that being denying self, taking up my cross on a daily basis, and following Him, a.k.a., sanctification. I spent years looking for something to really change me, going through a recovery house, 5 years in 12-step groups, C.A.I.R. (Christian Adults In Recovery), prayer counselling, pastoral counselling, anger management, marriage counselling and lots of prayers, but found none of these changed me at all. I only learned to modify my behavior. When one first comes to Christ, they are in Christ. But, I found that after my sanctification process had started, something new began. Not only was I in Christ, He was, and is, in me. "To them God has chosen to make known among the gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." Colossians 1;27 NIV Peace.

well justification is because once born again, that which is of Heaven is justified to be in Heaven, seeing one is born of that which is in Heaven. what is of God is justified to be with God and in the Presence of God, because it is of God. and for no other reason. when resurrected one receives the body Jesus has. the one you have now remains, in the earth it is the place of sin. as far as sanctification that's automatic by virtue of being born again. the Life received of Christ is separate from the life in the flesh in this world.

Then we'll agree to disagree, brother. Peace.

 

[Truman]

If we are honest with ourselves, we will acknowledge that when we say, "The bible says," what we are really saying is that it is my interpretation of what the bible says. Or the interpretation of who told it to me. Otherwise, do you really believe that 29,999 denominations are wrong and we are right? As far as seeking the Lord for correct interpretation, it's usually more like the Lord draws me to Him in order to give me His interpretation of His doctrine. Otherwise, there have been a few times where I did come to Him regarding something I didn't understand. For instance, when the Lord led His people into the promised land, He told them to slaughter all men, women and children. I've heard people say over the years that they were interested in God until they read the passage where, at God's command, Joshua went into the promised land with the Israelites and killed every man, woman and child. People try to explain this away by saying they were evil, etc. If this is true, and our God of Love got His holy people to kill even children, this means either He's a monster, or there is some other explanation. Since I know that our God is the God of love (see 1 Corinthians ch. 13), I chose to believe the latter. So I started looking into it. I arrived at 2 explanations. The first one was that the sons of God (bene ha elohim) talked about in genesis 6 were the godly sons of Seth and the ungodly daughters of Cain. The second interpretation is that the Sons of God (in this case, we're talking about watcher angels that rebelled with Lucifer) that lusted after the daughters of man, came to Earth, took for their own any woman they chose and had offspring that God called, "the nephilim." the watchers were in close contact with man and were able to change into anatomically correct human males. And yes, angels in Heaven do not marry. We're talking about powerful, evil beings here. So evil that they eventually caused God to bring the flood of Noah. Nephilim are not rock giants and Noah was not a psychotic maniac. The enemy will do everything he can to dissuade you from going in this direction because it reveals truth about his activities. Along with his wife, 3 sons and their wives, they were the only people left on Earth that still had good genetics. 7 years ago I started watching certain topics of interest, and six months later, God put my face in the book of Enoch. He confirmed that He wanted me to read it in an unexpected and for now, untold manner. Another time. And I don't think that anyone but the spiritually mature should read it. It is strong stuff. I'm trying to say the same amount with fewer words, as I enjoy telling my adventures with the Lord. And why do I think God would want to give me these experiences? Because He loves me? Because of His plan for me? Or perhaps because I'm a Levite? I don't know. I never asked Him. Maybe because He's God and He is not bound to explain Himself to anyone. It's good that He is good. Which is really, shall we say, "Groovy?" Lol! Shalom.

 

[DPMartin]

Then we'll agree to disagree, brother. Peace.

no, you agreed to disagree, you make no agreements for me.

 

[Truman]

Have it your way. Peace.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Potter makes both vessels of honour and dishonour...from the very same lump.

Romans 9:21
“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?”

However, God also prepares the clay that He intends as a vessel of honour so that it will come out as a vessel of honour.

Otherwise, do you really believe that 29,999 denominations are wrong and we are right?

Are there that many denominations? I believe that I can count the denominations that I am aware of on one or two hands.

 

[Truman]

For decades I've heard it go from 20,000 to 30,000. Worldwide. Shalom.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Are there that many denominations? I believe that I can count the denominations that I am aware of on one or two hands.

Would that be just the ones you consider to be genuinely Christian in their constitution?

 

[justbyfaith]

Would that be just the ones you consider to be genuinely Christian in their constitution?

Indeed.

Charismatic, Pentecostal, Foursquare, Calvary Chapel, Methodist, Nazarene, Episcopalian, Catholic.

Can you think of any more?

Greek Orthodox. Messianic Jews. SDA. WWCOG. The latter two being former cults or borderline cults.

Presbyterian (more of a style of leadership than denomination). Moses model. Congregation-led.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Indeed.
Charismatic, Pentecostal, Foursquare, Calvary Chapel, Methodist, Nazarene,Episcopalian, Catholic.
Can you think of any more?
Greek Orthodox. Messianic Jews. SDA. WWCOG. The latter two being former cults or borderline cults.
Presbyterian (more of a style of leadership than denomination). Moses model. Congregation-led.

The term denomination is used somewhat loosely but tends to identify more than the Catholic, Protestant, or Non-Conformist persuasions, and also more than Charismatic, Pentecostal, or Holiness streams or movements as they are sometimes called. Any group that meets with a manifesto, constitution, or manual that pertains to their ideology, structure, and conduct could be considered a denomination.

In NZ we have an ever increasing array of Pentecostal Denominations, many simply independent congregations, that include:

• AOG
• Apostolic
• Elim
• New Life
• Vineyard
• Awake
• Arise
• Harvest
• Breakthrough
• Impact
• Destiny
• Church Unlimited
• Equippers Church
• Gateway
• Manifest Love etc, etc

Some other Non-charismatic denominations include:

• Brethren

The Plymouth Brethren split into Exclusive and Open Brethren in 1848 when George Müller refused to accept John Nelson Darby's view of the relationship between local assemblies following difficulties in the Plymouth meeting. Brethren that held Muller's congregational view became known as "Open", those holding Darby's 'connexional' view, became known as "Exclusive" or "Darbyite" Brethren.

• Lutheran (various types)
• Reformed (Dutch & others)
• Salvation Army
• The Local Church (Watchman Nee, Witness Lee)
• The Way International

 

[justbyfaith]

The term denomination is used somewhat loosely but tends to identify more than the Catholic, Protestant, or Non-Conformist persuasions, and also more than Charismatic, Pentecostal, or Holiness streams or movements as they are sometimes called. Any group that meets with a manifesto, constitution, or manual that pertains to their ideology, structure, and conduct could be considered a denomination.

In NZ we have an ever increasing array of Pentecostal Denominations, many simply independent congregations, that include:

• AOG
• Apostolic
• Elim
• New Life
• Vineyard
• Awake
• Arise
• Harvest
• Breakthrough
• Impact
• Destiny
• Church Unlimited
• Equippers Church
• Gateway
• Manifest Love etc, etc

Some other Non-charismatic denominations include:

• Brethren

The Plymouth Brethren split into Exclusive and Open Brethren in 1848 when George Müller refused to accept John Nelson Darby's view of the relationship between local assemblies following difficulties in the Plymouth meeting. Brethren that held Muller's congregational view became known as "Open", those holding Darby's 'connexional' view, became known as "Exclusive" or "Darbyite" Brethren.

• Lutheran (various types)
• Reformed (Dutch & others)
• Salvation Army
• The Local Church (Watchman Nee, Witness Lee)
• The Way International

I don't consider the various Pentecostal denominations to be denominations; but I consider them all to fit under the denomination of Pentecostal.

Vineyard broke off from Calvary Chapel, so I might consider them to be of the same denomination as them (though they have their differences).

Many of these denominations are simply names of churches that reproduced themselves adequately and are not denominations at all; but would fit under the category of Pentecostal.

 

[Truman]

The term denomination is used somewhat loosely but tends to identify more than the Catholic, Protestant, or Non-Conformist persuasions, and also more than Charismatic, Pentecostal, or Holiness streams or movements as they are sometimes called. Any group that meets with a manifesto, constitution, or manual that pertains to their ideology, structure, and conduct could be considered a denomination.

In NZ we have an ever increasing array of Pentecostal Denominations, many simply independent congregations, that include:

• AOG
• Apostolic
• Elim
• New Life
• Vineyard
• Awake
• Arise
• Harvest
• Breakthrough
• Impact
• Destiny
• Church Unlimited
• Equippers Church
• Gateway
• Manifest Love etc, etc

Some other Non-charismatic denominations include:

• Brethren

The Plymouth Brethren split into Exclusive and Open Brethren in 1848 when George Müller refused to accept John Nelson Darby's view of the relationship between local assemblies following difficulties in the Plymouth meeting. Brethren that held Muller's congregational view became known as "Open", those holding Darby's 'connexional' view, became known as "Exclusive" or "Darbyite" Brethren.

• Lutheran (various types)
• Reformed (Dutch & others)
• Salvation Army
• The Local Church (Watchman Nee, Witness Lee)
• The Way International

The Vineyard views itself as conservative evangelical. I used to go to a Vineyard, I was part of the church plant. The former Toronto Airport Vineyard Christian Fellowship was asked to leave during the second half of the 1990's. It is now part of Partners In Harvest. I would call this church charismatic. I used to go, but then it got into the prosperity gospel, or should I say, the property godsell. And they wonder why things changed. Have so many forgotten that one cannot serve God and money? There are leaders of large denominations that I'm not even sure if they are fully human. I'm not joking. After reading Enoch, I see Jude 13 in a new light. These are fallen angels (wandering stars) and nephilim (clouds without water), and have been prophesied to infiltrate churches. While Enoch is for the mature, I see it as a lens which brings some scripture into focus. A Roman emperor and a Roman pope removed the book of Enoch from the canon. Usually, protestants are against this sort of thing when the catholic church does it, but for some reason, not here. The devil has done a good job keeping the knowledge in Enoch secret, where the 2 main characters are The Head Of Days and The Son Of Man, at least until fairly lately. Seminaries have continued this satanic tradition by teaching the heresy of the godly sons of Seth and the wicked daughters of Cain. But I regress. The church will be unified, "when all the colors bleed into one," as David Ruis once sang. John 17;20-22 Shalom.

 

[Heart2Soul]

For decades I've heard it go from 20,000 to 30,000. Worldwide. Shalom.

There were 45,000 as of 2 years ago....and the number continues to grow.

 

[Heart2Soul]

https://www.gordonconwell.edu/blog/christianity-is-fragmented-why/
DR. TODD M. JOHNSON
Professor of Global Christianity and Mission
We estimate that Christians are now found in nearly 45,000 denominations. These range in size from millions of members to fewer than 100 members and are listed for each of the world’s 234 countries in our World Christian Database. Why so many denominations? Throughout the history of Christianity, followers of Christ have struggled to express solidarity and unity. Jesus’s prayer in John 17 was an indication that divisions might be a problem in the nascent community. While multiple expressions of Christianity have existed from the earliest days of the church, the most serious disagreements resulted in splits that propelled different traditions of Christianity in divergent directions. The earliest splits occurred over culture, doctrine, and ecclesiology. Later splits seemed to be based in the idea that each Christian should decide for themselves what “church” should look like. An anecdote of a man stranded on a deserted island illustrates one of the issues. After many years, a ship sails close by the island and the man is rescued. The ship’s captain comes ashore, notices three huts that the man built, and asks, “Tell me about these huts.” The man replies, “The first hut is my home, and the second hut is my church.” The captain asks, “What is the third hut?” The man replies, “Oh, that is where I used to go to church.” Studies from the Pew Research Center have shown a lot of switching between Christian denominations in the United States. By 2025, there will likely be 49,000 denominations.

 

[Truman]

45,000 denominations. Wow! But in today's broken and dying world, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Peace.

 

[justbyfaith]

Another designation is non-denominational.

I believe that the majority of these 45,000 "denominations" would fit under that category.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I don't consider the various Pentecostal denominations to be denominations; but I consider them all to fit under the denomination of Pentecostal.

Vineyard broke off from Calvary Chapel, so I might consider them to be of the same denomination as them (though they have their differences).

Many of these denominations are simply names of churches that reproduced themselves adequately and are not denominations at all; but would fit under the category of Pentecostal.

Like I said, the term is used loosely.

There was a time when people asked what denomination someone was but now it's more a case of "where do you fellowship?" While two "fellowships" may both cultivate "moving in the gifts of the Spirit", they can be poles apart in other respects.

• Potter's House Christian Fellowship come to mind.

Also considered a denomination on its own here is the Church of Christ.

Quote: Following the plan of organization found in the New Testament, churches of Christ are autonomous. Their common faith in the Bible and adherence to its teachings are the chief ties which bind them together. There is no central headquarters of the church, and no organization superior to the elders of each local congregation. Congregations do cooperate voluntarily in supporting the orphans and the aged, in preaching the gospel in new fields, and in other similar works. Organisational Connection of Churches of Christ