Cant help yourself can you, you cant stand the truth so you sling mud, is that all you have. Nothing.
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Some people believe that all Catholics are damned....I disagree....The phonies, the deluded, the Religionist , The Tares, can be Found In All denominations.....Anybody that Believes In catholic Doctrine and follows it is not necessarily damned, but for CERTAIN, they are “ Fallen From Grace”... as are “any” people that ADD to Paul’s Gospel, given to him personally by Jesus......They Add to the Gospel with their Infant Baptism, Confession Booths, the Taking Of the Sacraments, etc....
Some very great Teachers Of the Word believe that “ falling From Grace”, as the Catholics and certainly those of other faiths do , means one is Lost.....The Bible is Clear that those who Preach a Perverted Gospel are Damned ( Accursed , Galations says ).....I think those that Fall from Grace are Saved—- they just walk Crippled Walls Of Faith
I read somewhere that Rose Kennedy took Mass everyday.....petrified that if she failed to do so , she would go to Hell if she died that day......what a sad way to live.....I think that might be what it is to “ fall from Grace”.....There is no mystery involved however when Paul says that those who TEACH a False Gospel — a Perverted One are going to Hell.....that is what “ Accursed” means.....
All you Modern- Day Judaizers out there? Have a pleasant day.....
Marymog
Well-Known Member
- Mar 7, 2017
- 11,970
- 1,796
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Hi Blood Bought,
What criteria do you use to determine if a person has fallen from grace? Who are these “very great Teachers Of the Word” that you speak of? I am curious who Are the top 3-5 “great Teachers” that you have read?
Respectfully, Mary
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,677
- 3,597
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Acts 2:38, "repent and be baptized" is actually Peter showing you that He has not yet being given the revelation of the Grace of God, as Paul gave it to the church.
Notice that Peter says....>"repent and be baptized"... so, that is John the Baptist's message to Israel, before Jesus died on the Cross.
Notice Acts 10. There you'll find Peter, about 10 yrs after Christ has ascended back into Glory, and He does not know YET, that Gentiles can be saved.
So, If Peter didnt know that Gentiles could be saved 10 Yrs after Jesus is back into Heaven, He certainly did not not understand or yet know Paul's Gospel of Grace as given "in the time of the Gentiles".
Ok?
So, Paul is the person, the "apostle to the Gentiles" who delivered from JESUS, to the body of Christ, what Paul calls "My Gospel".
And Paul's Gospel is not Acts 2:38.
Paul's Gospel is "all that call on the name of the Lord, shall be saved".
Paul's Gospel, which is THE Gospel, is....."Justification by faith"
"Grace Through Faith".
Much later, around Acts 15, Paul came to the other Apostles and they had a big sit down and lets talk about it and lets us all get on the same page,= meeting.
And from there, ALL the Apostles taught Paul's Gospel, as THE Gospel.
Romans 2:16 ""In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY gospel"""
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,677
- 3,597
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Time for a Bible lesson . . .
Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region.
The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”
According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”
Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας
The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.
Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC.
Now - the REAL challenge is trying to find the terms:
"Lutheran Church" or "Baptist church" or "Bible Church" or "Non-Denominational Evangelical Church", etc . . .
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,677
- 3,597
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
NONSENSE.
Unless 1 Peter was written during those first 10-15 years after the Ascension of Christ - which virtually EVERY scholar rejects - Peter STILL held to the following:
1 Pet. 3:21
BAPTISM, which corresponds to this, NOW SAVES YOU, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Galatians makes it simple to determine who has “ fallen from Grace”.....Anybody that Believes that the Gospel is ESSENTIAL for Salvation, but on its own, is not Fully ADEQUATE fir that Salvation.....it’s the delusional, Satan- Inspired Thinking That says “ Sure , Jesus Saves......BUT! ( insert your favorited Dead Work here.... ).....The-Most prevalent false Perverted Gospel out there seems to Be “ Jesus Saves But once you know that , you have to prove you Love Jesus by keeping His Commandments or Jesus Saves But you have to make sure you have Repented of all of your sins Before you die.” Lucky Repentance for Salvation” is what I call that.....These are just “ Two” Of The False, or as Paul said, “ Perverted Gospels” out there.....there are more....
My teachers have been J Vernon McGee, Oliver Greene, Dr. Gene Scott, Zola Levitt,Joseph Prince . Les Feldick, Andrew Farley and perhaps the best of all , Renee Roland......Paul Ellis is great also....
I would be one of those teachers who would say that to be fallen from grace means loss of salvation, and here's why:
Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that we are saved by grace through faith...and this indicates to me that without grace, there is no salvation.
Jesus never taught the disciples about grace? I beg to differ:
Jhn 1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jhn 1:16, And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Jhn 1:17, For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
I would point out to you, however, that baptism doesn't save unless it is believer's baptism...which excludes infant baptism as being valid.
Mar 16:16, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
See 1 Corinthians 15:37 and Matthew 13:30. And Ecclesiastes 9:11.
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,677
- 3,597
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Hogwash.
That is another example of your constant cherry-picking of Scripture. Take ALL of the teachings about Baptism in CONTEXT .
They are ALL written by the SAME Author - GOD. Your confusion begins with cherry-picking and goes deeper because of your failure to understand OT Type vs. NT Fulfillment.
The OT Type that was Circumcision has been replaced by the NT Fulfillment that is Baptism. This is why Paul refers to it as the "circumcision of Christ."
Col. 2:11-12
In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead
Did God tell the Israelites to "wait" until those 8-day-old baby boys were of the "age of consent" to enter into the Covenant with God?
NO - they were circumcised as infants and raised int he faith by their parents.
The SAME is true for Baptism.
This scripture also teaches that faith is necessary.
Baptism accomplishes a spiritual circumcision in that the body of the sins of the flesh is put away from the one who is baptized.
But the similarity ends there. This scripture does not teach that baptism is to be done in infancy. Faith is required in the person being baptized; so how can infant baptism be valid. Can an infant place his or her faith in Jesus Christ; understanding that he or she is a sinner in need of a Saviour?
I say to you truly that such is a prerequisite for true salvation.
What of the doctrine of the age of accountability?
I really like Andrew Farley, but he is a big time Acts 2:38 dodger.
I had a brief online debate with him about water baptism essentiality but as he could not answer my questions, he gave up.
I still like his other teachings though.
I hope he realizes one must obey Acts 2:38 to be saved before the Lord returns.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
All of us who abide in Christ, and He in us are His Church. You don't have to be Catholic to abide in Christ and be one with Him.
Andrew is an awesome Grace teacher...I see him more of a teacher than a preacher. Don't agree with him a hundred percent but, for the main tenets, he is right on. He's a linguist; gave up his tenor as he was a professor of linguistics, to go full time ministry. He has an awesome testimony but...still have not found a better testimony than Keith Green :)
Many say he is a false teacher but then, I think we could find that with just about any teachers out there.
BreadOfLife
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2017
- 21,677
- 3,597
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Once AGAIN - you discount the entire context of Scripture on the matter for your favorite past time of cherry-picking.
Acts 2:39 assures us that this promise is for us - and ouR CHILDREN.
The ENTIRE households of Cornelius, Stephanas and the Phillipian Jailer were Baptized based on the faith of those 3 men.
Furthermore - the UNANIMOUS testimony of the Early Church Fathers was that Infant Baptism was an APOSTOLIC practice that was handed down by them . . .
Irenaeus
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).
Hippolytus
"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The APOSTOLIC TRADITION 21:16 [A.D. 215]).
Origen
"Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous" (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]).
"The Church received from the APOSTLES the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit" (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"As to what pertains to the case of infants: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).
Gregory of Nazianz
"Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood. From his most tender age let him be consecrated by the Spirit. Do you fear the seal [of baptism] because of the weakness of nature? Oh, what a pusillanimous mother and of how little faith!" (Oration on Holy Baptism 40:7 [A.D. 388]).
"‘Well enough,’ some will say, ‘for those who ask for baptism, but what do you have to say about those who are still children, and aware neither of loss nor of grace? Shall we baptize them too?’ Certainly [I respond], if there is any pressing danger. Better that they be sanctified unaware, than that they depart unsealed and uninitiated" (ibid., 40:28).
John Chrysostom
"You see how many are the benefits of baptism, and some think its heavenly grace consists only in the remission of sins, but we have enumerated ten honors [it bestows]! For this reason we baptize even infants, though they are not defiled by [personal] sins, so that there may be given to them holiness, righteousness, adoption, inheritance, brotherhood with Christ, and that they may be his [Christ’s] members" (Baptismal Catecheses in Augustine, Against Julian 1:6:21 [A.D. 388]).
Augustine
"What the universal Church holds, not as instituted [invented] by councils but as something always held, is most correctly believed to have been handed down by apostolic authority. Since others respond for children, so that the celebration of the sacrament may be complete for them, it is certainly availing to them for their consecration, because they themselves are not able to respond" (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 4:24:31 [A.D. 400]).
"The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except APOSTOLIC" (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39 [A.D. 408]).
I was following him and enjoying his ministry until he started teaching on the "Lies" series in Christianity.
When he did the water baptism "Lie" part, I had to make him accountable.
I still have the emails back and forth(he was nice to accommodate my arguments), but he eventually stopped responding to my questions.
He is an Acts 2:38 skipper...bummer.
Here is an excerpt...
Andrew...
Hello and thank you for your email!
Verses 9 to 20 of Mark 16 do not appear in the earliest manuscripts.
Even if they are authentic, notice that the second half of verse 16 removes baptism from the equation.
Clearly, it was normal to be water baptized but the only baptism that actually saves is spiritual baptism into Christ.
Acts chapter 10 reveals a group of Gentiles who have already received the Holy Spirit and have been saved apart from water baptism. Then Peter shows up and says they can be water baptized to celebrate. They were already saved and already had the Spirit. Water baptism came days or weeks later, after salvation.
There are a lot of wet spiritually dead people.
Me...
Bro Farley. Think about this for a moment.
You are teaching us that when someone asks us, “men and brethren what shall we do” , you say “believe the gospel and receive the Holy Ghost”.
This is not what Peter said at Acts 2, not at all.
Peter told the sinner Jews to repent...be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE remission of sins....and you shall receive the Holy Ghost.
The fact is, the Seminary is teaching Christendoms teachers to ignore Acts 2:38(the birth place of the 1st century church), and find remission another way.
One must repent(die), be baptized (be buried), be Spirit filled(which leads a person to repent and be baptized).
Our counterparts teach that per Romans 6, we are buried alive, by saying we are alive in Christ without remission of sins per baptism.
The Spirit does not remit sins, but leads us to remission of sins per water baptism.
Keep in mind, neither the Philippian jailer, nor the Ethiopian eunuch were saved per these doctrines, because neither received the Holy Ghost in scripture at the time.
We must have the Holy Ghost to be saved, correct?
Shall we use examples of men that were not saved by water baptism such as these men, in our Biblical examples?
Or, were they saved per water baptism in both cases as they believed....harmonizing Mark16:16?
Notice, I vindicated Mark 16 and you attempted to eliminate it.
Think about it my brother in Christ
I can continue sharing if you would like to see more.
Similar threads
