CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
According to you, everything I say is against scripture. So what else is new?
The Ten Commandments—What happened?
- Thread starter BarneyFife
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Start to say WHAT Scripture says, and there won't be anything to say for me. But as long as I SEE you say anything that is NOT Scripture, I'll let you have everything I have against you.
Try this, what I also have been trying all my life: By quoting nothing but Scripture, try to not comment at all.
I do believe that the sabbath is a peripheral issue; and having knowledge of the SDA view on the matter I seek to follow it (without going overboard: I do not believe that worshiping on Sunday is the mark of the Beast).
The primary issue that the Bible wants us to consider is what is written in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 3:16, and Galatians 3:22....this is the gospel of Jesus Christ and ought to be our primary focus.
Even as Paul wrote to the Corinthians that he determined to know nothing among them except Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2).
The primary issue that the Bible wants us to consider is what is written in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 3:16, and Galatians 3:22....this is the gospel of Jesus Christ and ought to be our primary focus.
Even as Paul wrote to the Corinthians that he determined to know nothing among them except Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2).
'Eat my flesh and drink my blood' has the same significance - a memorial. Yes, there is edification in meditating on these things, but are such figurative principles compulsory in the New Advent, unto salvation? I would emphatically say no. But, violation of the Sabbath exacted a death penalty, there's something more egregious about ignoring this, it appears?
But, we are saved by Grace, not Works, ...so it does create quite the controversy.
A blessed confession. God bless you.
Please never stagnate, because then you will get self-satisfied (like the SDA) and then you're kaput.
The Sabbath remains one's work of own righteousness for as long as you deny the Resurrection of Jesus Christ its reason for being.
Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!
Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)
Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)
If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)
The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)
The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)
Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)
Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)
The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)
The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)
The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)
The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)
1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)
2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)
The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)
The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)
The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)
Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)
Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)
Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)
The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)
To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)
The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)
The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)
The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)
The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)
If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)
The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)
The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)
Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)
Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)
1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)
It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)
Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)
God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)
It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)
It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)
Well there you have it… 37 scriptures that make a very convincing arguement.
That verse says it brings wrath on those who fail to keep it.
Of course, if you combine it with Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, and Matthew 5:48, we can come to your conclusion, w/o losing hold of the truth that I just proclaimed to you.
Actually, that verse says that the element of indwelling sin utilizes the law to do that within you.
Actually, the law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)) showing men that they are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20).
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I thought it’s the Holy Spirit that leads to Christ and convinces the world of sin?
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 10:9 KJV
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
He Jesus took away the first, how can people dare say it’s still in place?
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
He Jesus took away the first, how can people dare say it’s still in place?
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Lol, you were never under the law or practiced it. To believe you were is only assigning yourself to fantasy’s.
It no longer stands as being written on stone to condemn the believer.
However, it is now written on fleshy tables of human hearts (2 Corinthians 3:3)...it is written in the minds and on the hearts of recipients of the new covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 john 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 5:5).
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
37 Scriptures misunderstood misapplied and and misquoted. If Scripture did not show and proved all sinners are under it as well as under its curse, God would have failed in his purpose with the Law; no one would have realised the need for a Saviour, would never have prayed for forgiveness of sin and never would have SEEN sin in its terribleness.
RE: <<Acts The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)>> It speaks of circumcision, to be exact and unbiased and respectful to fact and Truth. You should say I'm sorry, I'm wrong.
Re: <<Romans The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)>>. Exactly. The Law does what God meant it to do. To claim the believer is not under the Law is to (as you did before) say, God's Law is useless. I.o.w., to say God wasted his Breath.
Re: <<If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)>> "If they (the Jews) who are of the Law, were heirs (because of the Law), (their) FAITH IS MADE VOID and the Promise (which the Law promised) would not have come into effect." There is no way for anyone, you included, to come from under the Law OF GOD, or from under its curse except through Christ by grace the forgiveness of sins the transgression of the Law OF GOD.
Therefore, WHY all this wangling and wrangling to get rid of God's Law? YOU WOULD NOT THINK TO DO IF NOT YOU WANTED TO RID YOURSELF OF GOD'S SABBATH DAY COMMANDMENT.
etcetera
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
It's important to remember that the Ten Commandments were never intended as the means to salvation. Rather, the Ten Commandments answers to the question, "what behavior defines a holy people?" A holy person doesn't run after other gods; a holy person doesn't commit adultery; a holy person doesn't murder; a holy person remembers the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy.
Keeping the Sabbath day is more than resting one day a week. It memorializes the Seventh Day of creation on which God rested. As such, it remains one of many ways that the people of God associate themselves with the kingdom of God. Remember, Jesus said, "seek first the kingdom of God." The holy people of God are praying that God will finally bring about his kingdom, and they memorialize and anticipate that time once a week.
Perhaps the controversy is centered on the following passage
Exodus 31:15-17
For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’ It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”
It would appear that Sabbath observance is unique to the sons of Israel. God has never altered this covenant to include a Gentile believer as far as I know. Christians observe Sunday as a time of reading the scriptures and breaking bread together as a memorial looking backward toward the cross and the resurrection of Jesus from the dead on Sunday morning. But there shouldn't be any controversy if one bears in mind that Sabbath observance is forward looking, anticipating the kingdom of God when all of God's people enter their rest; whereas Sunday is the day we look backward to the cross, which made the whole thing possible.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I would never be so bold as to tell you what to do. But if you will, I have discovered that men and women of faith are at different levels of maturity and knowledge concerning the scriptures. As a consequence, we make mistakes. But mistakes can be corrected and correction is best left to the work of the Holy Spirit. My goal is to help others come to a better understanding of the scriptures as I understand them. My approach is to simply lay it down on the table. If you, or someone else chooses to pick it up, that is your choice. If you don't find it helpful, then don't pick it up.
In this case, I chose not to filter my comments through the "Law v. Grace" controversy. And I kept my comments short, because this format favors brief explanations. But this doesn't mean that I don't have reasons to believe what I wrote. I could offer you many scriptures and arguments. I have reasons for what I believe and I have laid out some of those reasons here.
Pick it up or leave it on the table. That is your choice. If what I say is helpful to your own studies, that is all I can ask of myself.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Jesus Himself is that sabbath rest, as Paul described HIM in Hebrews 4:9.
Therefore, when reading that verse, come from the perspective of Christ, and not from the sabbath. See Matthew 11:29.
Jesus fulfilled the keeping of the sabbath verbatim.
So then, should it be that you are not keeping that Law perfectly and without error, means that you have BROKEN ALL the 10Cs. Yes! God sees you as a Murderer, theif, an adulterer, covetous, etc., all rolled into one!
Don't you get it? Your keeping of the Law verbatim reveals that YOU LACK FAITH in the shed blood of Christ FOR YOU. Only He is your covering (atonement), and not anything of the Law, that you can add or do!!
His jusgment is: You are GUILTY,...always!
Earburner
Well-Known Member
The word "holy" means "set apart" by God for HIS purposes.
And that purpose, once you have come to Christ, and "set apart", is to preach HIS "good news" about Him sending His Son into the world, to *FREELY deliverer us from eternal death!
* without obligation, except to believe in Jesus and receive Him as that FREE Gift, which is the Holy Spirit. Luke 11:13 Romans 8:8-9 John 3:18.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Paul is not equating Jesus with the Sabbath Rest in Hebrews 4. Rather, he argues that Jesus, as our high priest, is both the agent and the means to our reaching that rest. Later in his epistle to the Romans he will elaborate. Review chapter 8, one of my favorite.
With regard to the issue of "works", Paul argues that we are justified by faith, not by works of the law so that none should boast. In this context, "works of the law" are "rituals of religion." We may perform various rites and rituals according to our religious practice, but these are not the means to grace, Paul would argue. Belief in Jesus and walking in his word are the means to grace in Paul's mind. This seems to be his point in Romans chapter 2,
Romans 2:7
to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life.
Although we are saved apart from religious ritual; we are not saved apart from deeds that indicate the pursuit of glory, honor, and immortality.
With regard to Sabbath observance, Paul teaches us that each person is subject to his Lord and his conscience.
Romans 14:5-9
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
If Sabbath observance indicated a lack of faith, Paul would never have written the paragraph above.
Similar threads
