WITCHCRAFT IN TODAY'S CHURCH.

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Yan

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My wife and I left a church primarily because of the "worship" where after 10 repetitions of the same 4 lines we were again admonished to "this time, sing like you mean in!"

People need to remember what a leader is, not just someone who directs you where to go, but someone who goes there first.

Much love!
Are these musical worship today was also the sign of Babylonian ?

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
 

marks

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Why don't some of us transfer some of our albums by Casting Crowns backwards so when we play them we can count the number of times that they say "Hail King Satan!" in each song? Do you really believe that are a Christian group? :p
I remember one of Resurrection Band's albums, there was a little blip of obvious backwards speech. So when we spun the record backwards . . . "Why are you looking for the devil, when you ought to be looking for the light?"
 

Hidden In Him

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My wife and I left a church primarily because of the "worship" where after 10 repetitions of the same 4 lines we were again admonished to "this time, sing like you mean in!"

Yes. You're standing there thinking, "If I were 'singing it like I mean it'....

Here we go:
"Lord, you know I love you so...
Get us a new worship leader,
Cuz this guy's really gotta go..."

I'd tell everybody I only spoke Spanish, so I need a translator and some really thick headphones.


hqdefault.jpg
 
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marks

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That still is not witchcraft. Christians need to be careful to not make false accusations. Witchcraft has been clearly defined for several thousand years. Let's stick with the correct definitions.

BRITANNICA DOES NOT REALLY BELIEVE IN WITCHCRAFT
"Witchcraft, traditionally, the exercise or invocation of alleged [TYPICAL SECULAR HEDGING] supernatural powers to control people or events, practices typically involving sorcery or magic. Although defined differently in disparate historical and cultural contexts, witchcraft has often been seen, especially in the West, as the work of crones who meet secretly at night, indulge in cannibalism and orgiastic rites with the Devil, or Satan, and perform black magic...:
I don't think you read my posts all that carefully.
 
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Yan

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I remember one of Resurrection Band's albums, there was a little blip of obvious backwards speech. So when we spun the record backwards . . . "Why are you looking for the devil, when you ought to be looking for the light?"
Maybe those backwards were intended, because when we had walked with Holy Spirit, we also walked in the middle of cyclone that move backwards. When I was started to lived in Holy Spirit 9 years ago all those musical lyrics that had listened before suddenly becomes alive and intimidating. Could it be those backwards sound in music was meant to implant those nasty words into our consciousness ?
 

marks

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Jesus Cookies actually sound pretty good... I wonder if they have Peanut Butter. Or Toffee. THAT would be excellent. I could go for some Jesus Cookies with little bits of toffee in them. And a tall glass of milk.

Then prayer.


milk-cookies.jpg
If you're going to be eating this stuff, you'd better pray first!

:)
 
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marks

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Are these musical worship today was also the sign of Babylonian ?

Revelation 18:22
And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
I don't think so.

There are plenty of musicians leading worship in the Bible.

Much love!
 

Behold

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Jesus Cookies actually sound pretty good... I wonder if they have Peanut Butter. Or Toffee. THAT would be excellent. I could go for some Jesus Cookies with little bits of toffee in them. And a tall glass of milk.

Then prayer.

-
Why is it that all Catholics only want to talk about the Eucharist, and Mary the Queen of their imagination?
Oh thats right, its called "brainwashing", by a CULT.
The CULT of MARY.
 

Truman

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Aren't you mixing two things here?

I'll not try to manipulate my little sister into becoming a Christian, and she has no thought towards what I beleive, just the same, I continue to ask God to change her heart. Today, that would be agains her will.

Much love!
It's God's will that she come to Him. I ask Him to draw her to Him, to woo her. He doesn't force us, He convinces us. I remember the summer of 1988. I worked on my brother's farm. One day I was out in the field feeding the livestock. It was a beautiful day and the sky was blue. I slowly started to sense a drawing or a yearning. I stopped and looked up at the sky but I didn't understand what was happening. He was drawing me to Him. He was very respectful. Who am I that God would respect me? That's how He is. That's how He treats us. He loves us. Two years later I had joined a church and was practising with the worship team. What a wonderful God we have. Shalom.
 

Truman

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I had a friend once that was Wiccan. Not once did I sense anything untoward between us. I accepted him. He accepted me. He knew what I believed. He expected me to reject him but I didn't. We were friends.
He moved to another town. He visited me several times. He had a serious health issue. I think that's why he stopped coming to visit.
My understanding of witchcraft is any attempt to coerce or manipulate someone to do something they normally wouldn't do. When I am submitted to God, I can easily pray His will. If I'm bitter against someone and I'm ignoring God by not forgiving, I am rebelling against Him. A bad place to be. Rebellion is as witchcraft. It moves from being God's will to being my will. It happens. I believe that the recipient can be oppressed by demons through this. Forgiveness from the heart is a must. Shalom.
 
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amadeus

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Yes, peace.

I'm just concerned about your idea that praying for something against a person's will is witchcraft.
Indeed!

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

The "righteous man" will pray according to God's will and sometimes as a result closed doors will be opened for another person. But... our prayers, even if we be righteous, will not force anyone to walk through that door.

We may have a friend or family member who is an atheist, or an agnostic, or simply has no interest in approaching God. Our prayers in the right Spirit, will not coerce them, but through the power of God allow such a person to see what he is missing. If he then decides not to walk through the door toward God, it is an informed choice and his final result is not received in complete ignorance.
 
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Brakelite

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As a former Wiccan, what witchcraft meant to us was that we could use our understanding of the elemental forces in the earth to enact our will over things, others, whatever. That there were certain ways to engage and direct these forces, primarily by speech, but not entirely.

Much love!
NLP? taught in some seminaries.
 

marks

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NLP? taught in some seminaries.
:eek:

Someone besides me has heard of NLP?

But no, that's something different. This is more "words of power" spoken to cause things external to one's self. Also other methods.

Much love!
 

Truther

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The most Biblically defined witchcraft that has been brought into the church is Law based Christianity.

Paul called the "Judaiser brethren" that did this to the Galatian saints, witches".("who hath bewitched you?"
 

CharismaticLady

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It's important to pray according to God's will as revealed by God's Word and/or the Holy Spirit. This is not witchcraft, which uses spells in order to control people and circumstances. Praying to God and casting spells are two completely different things.

1 John 5:14-15--This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.

Paul said to "pray at all times in the Spirit with every prayer and request, and stay alert in this with all perseverance and intercession for all the saints" (Ephesians 6:18).

I know that people prayed for my salvation--even when I didn't want to have anything to do with God, and I thank God they did! This was NOT witchcraft!

Edit: Here are some a couple more scriptures about witchcraft.

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the actions of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, rivalry, jealously, outbursts of anger, quarrels, conflicts, factions, envy, murder, drunkenness, wild partying, and things like that. I am telling you now, as I have told you in the past, that people who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral,
those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars–their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”


.

and @Ron Coates

When I read Ron's post, what I thought of regarding preachers are the manipulators for money, called extortioners.

1 Cor. 5:
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

They may teach we are not under law, but under grace - EXCEPT when it comes to the law on tithes. Then it is mandatory.
 
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Enoch111

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Care to ennumerate? Or to renunciate?
This is an exact quotation from your OP: "If I inject my will into the prayer by asking God to do something against the person's will, this is poising my will against another's free will. It stems from the carnal nature and never carries out God's plan for the person. This, in a nutshell, is witchcraft."
And this in a nutshell is baloney.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
WITCH; WITCHCRAFT
wich, wich'-kraft:

1. Meaning and Use of the Words:

The word "witch" seems to denote etymologically "one that knows." it is historically both masculine and feminine; indeed the Anglo-Saxon form wicca, to which the English word is to be traced, is masculine alone. "Wizard" is given as masculine for witch, but it has in reality no connection with it. Wright (English Dialect Dictionary, VII, 521) says he never heard an uneducated person speak of wizard. When this word is used by the people it denotes, he says, a person who undoes the work of a witch. Shakespeare often uses "witch" of a male (compare Cymbeline, I, 6, l. 166: "He is.... a witch"). In Wycliff's translation of Acts 8:9 Simon Magus is called "a witch" ("wicche"). Since the 13th century the word "witch" has come more and more to denote a woman who has formed a compact with the Devil or with evil spirits, by whose aid she is able to cause all sorts of injury to living beings and to things. The term "witchcraft" means in modern English the arts and practices of such women.

2. Biblical Usage:

Since the ideas we attach to "witch" and "witchcraft" were unknown in Bible times, the words have no right place in our English Bible, and this has been recognized to some extent but not completely by the Revisers of 1884. The word "witch" occurs twice in the King James Version, namely, (1) in Exodus 22:18, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch (the Revised Version (British and American) "a sorceress") to live"; (2) in Deuteronomy 18:10, "or a witch" (the Revised Version (British and American) "or a sorcerer"). The Hebrew word is in both cases the participle of the verb (kishsheph), denoting "to practice the magical article." See MAGIC, V, 2. In the first passage, however, the feminine ending (-ah) is attached, but this ending denotes also one of a class and (on the contrary) a collection of units; see Kautzsch, Hebrew Grammar 28, section 122,s,t.

The phrase "the witch of Endor" occurs frequently in literature, and especially in common parlance, but it is not found in the English Bible. The expression has come from the heading and summary of the King James Version, both often so misleading. In 1 Samuel 28, where alone the character is spoken of, English Versions of the Bible translates the Hebrew 'esheth ba`alath 'obh by "a woman that hath a familiar spirit." A literal rendering would be "a woman who is mistress of an 'obh or ghost," i.e. one able to compel the departed spirit to return and to answer certain questions. This woman was therefore a necromancer, a species of diviner (see DIVINATION, IV; ENDOR, WITCH OF; FAMILIAR), and not what the term "witch" imports.

The word "witchcraft" occurs thrice in the King James Version in 1 Samuel 15:23, "the sin of witchcraft" should be as in the Revised Version margin, "the sin of divination," the latter representing the Hebrew word qecem, generally translated "divination".

So in view of this you are the one who should be retracting your false accusation, which also totally changes the meaning of witchcraft to accommodate your bias.
 

Mayflower

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Yes. You're standing there thinking, "If I were 'singing it like I mean it'....

Here we go:
"Lord, you know I love you so...
Get us a new worship leader,
Cuz this guy's really gotta go..."

I'd tell everybody I only spoke Spanish, so I need a translator and some really thick headphones.


hqdefault.jpg

My goodness those 18 minute songs with one line. Yes!!!
 
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