Where does the Bible say?

[quietthinker]

Purgatory 1 cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I Corinthians 3:15 is referring to those who's 'theology' is in error yet who's hearts are in the right place.
The reference to fire is the destruction of an inaccurate understanding through a late awareness of their error ie, what is happening externally is not according to their expectations...their expectations being in error. This experience for them, will be as going through fire.....ie, difficult to say the least.

A right understanding paves the way for confidence with God without doubt....it makes our inward journey here smoother even though externally there are troubles.

King David's life testifies to this...it was the springboard which inspired so many of his Psalms.

Jesus's life is also a witness. Internally he was at peace with his Father.....externally he was harassed by the Devil and his minions.

 

[kcnalp]

Soooooo, you actually believe that the more Bibles you have makes you a "better" Christian?
Can you show me where the Bible says that?

And by the way - I didn't "compare" the bible to comic books - I just figured that's where your maturity level was, given our conversation . . .

I will take my Bibles' Word over yours any day.

 

[kcnalp]

Hell has nothing to do with Purgatory - so why bring that up?
Purgatory is for those who are going to Heaven - not Hell.

"No purgatory in the Bible."

No "Catholic" in the Bible either. No Pope. You just make this stuff up.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm your Huckleberry!

You do not display what a Perfect Tense in the Greek implies correctly. Concerning something that is written in time, the Perfect Tense indicates an action with continuing results... up to the point the statement is made. It would have to be in the Future Tense to continue beyond that particular statement. I could say that Donald trump is a Billionaire in the perfect tense. In the past he made a Billion dollars, and has a Billion dollars today. Yet I cannot say that he will never be less than a Billionaire, or he will always be a Billionaire based upon the Perfect Tense.

Concerning passages that speak of the present work of God in sanctification in Scripture, the Perfect Tense would speak to what He has done in the past continues up to the Present. It does not mean that someone who was effected by God's grace always permanently continues, but that God's work does.

Now THAT'S a great response - unlike some of the moronic ones ones I've been dealing with from ol' kc . . .

That argument WOULD work in your Donald Trump scenario - but NOT in Mary's case - and here's why . . .
We are agreed that the perfect tense indicates a past event that continues up to the point when the statement is made. Kecharitomene indicates a PAST event with a PERMANENT result because it is grace that has been "perfectly and completely endowed."

As I stated earlier - people in Heaven are in this state. They have been perfected in grace and completely endowed with it. Therefore - they can no longer sin because the perfection of grace within them completely and perfectly joins them to God's will.

You and I are not perfectly joined to His will yet because we still struggle with sin and are being sanctified daily.

Thoughts?

 

[BreadOfLife]

And still you have ZERO Scripture. ZILCH! Why don't you write your own bible? That way you can prove anything your heart desires.

Read post #204 and see if you can understand it.
Then get back to me.

I'm not holding my breath . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

"No purgatory in the Bible." No "Catholic" in the Bible either.
No Pope. You just make this stuff up.

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Do your homework, dude.
This is getting embarrassing . . .

 

[kcnalp]

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Do your homework, dude.
This is getting embarrassing . . .

So all of our Christian Bibles are wrong and you're right? lol

 

[ChristisGod]

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Ekklesia Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Do your homework, dude.
This is getting embarrassing . . .

sounds like fiction you made it all up out of thin air and its absent from scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I Corinthians 3:15 is referring to those who's 'theology' is in error yet who's hearts are in the right place.
The reference to fire is the destruction of an inaccurate understanding through a late awareness of their error ie, what is happening externally is not according to their expectations...their expectations being in error. This experience for them, will be as going through fire.....ie, difficult to say the least.

A right understanding paves the way for confidence with God without doubt....it makes our inward journey here smoother even though externally there are troubles.

King David's life testifies to this...it was the springboard which inspired so many of his Psalms.

Jesus's life is also a witness. Internally he was at peace with his Father.....externally he was harassed by the Devil and his minions.

Let's read that verse in context . . .

The Catholic Church has always taught that because nothing impure or imperfect can enter Heaven (Rev. 21:27) - a "Final Purification of the Elect" is necessary for some before entering.
The name given is Purgatory - and a LOT of Protestants gripe about that because the word is not in Scripture. Well - neither is "Trinity", "Incarnation" or even "Bible", for that matter It's not necessary that the word be in Scripture for it to be a Scriptural teaching.

2 Macc. 42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verse 44 says, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.”
Matt. 5:25-26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.”

Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there is purification after death for some. Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

Finally - 1 Cor. 3:10‐15 says:
"According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it, for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day (judgment) will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person WILL be saved, but only as through fire."

- This cannot be Heaven because the person will SUFFER ‐ and there is NO suffering in Heaven.
- This cannot be Hell because the person will be SAVED ‐ ad there is NO salvation in Hell.
- This is describing a THIRD state – a state of Final Purification.

YOUR turn.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So all of our Christian Bibles are wrong and you're right? lol

sounds like fiction you made it all up out of thin air and its absent from scripture.

Are you sure you're NOT the same person??
The responses I get from BOTH of you are equally frightening . . .

Why don't you just go to a Greek Bible and fact check me??
You DO know that the NT was written in Koine Greek - don't you?

 

[kcnalp]

Are you sure you're NOT the same person??
The responses I get from BOTH of you are equally frightening . . .

Why don't you just go to a Greek Bible and fact check me??
You DO know that the NT was written in Koine Greek - don't you?

Have you ever read the Bible? They all say you're wrong.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Have you ever read the Bible? They all say you're wrong.

Then open a Greek Bible, turn to Acts 9:31 and show me where I'm "wrong".

 

[ChristisGod]

Are you sure you're NOT the same person??
The responses I get from BOTH of you are equally frightening . . .

Why don't you just go to a Greek Bible and fact check
You DO know that the NT was written in Koine Greek - don't you?

Can you read, write , speak and translate Greek into English ?

 

[kcnalp]

Then open a Greek Bible, turn to Acts 9:31 and show me where I'm "wrong".

Who told you that you're a Greek expert?

Acts 9:31 (NKJV)
31 Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

 

[kcnalp]

Can you read, write , speak and translate Greek into English ?

He must be a Greek expert. He's teaching us Greek. He knows more than our MANY English Bible translators! At least that's what he's trying to tell us.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Can you read, write , speak and translate Greek into English ?

Who told you that you're a Greek expert?

Acts 9:31 (NKJV)
31 Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

Here is the verse in Greek and in English.
I gave you the translations from Strong's Greek Lexicon and Concordance - a respected scholarly source.

Read it and weep . . .

Acts 9:31
Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.

Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία καθ᾿ ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ Γαλιλαίας καὶ Σαμαρείας εἶχεν εἰρήνην οἰκοδομουμένη καὶ πορευομένη τῷ φόβῳ τοῦ κυρίου καὶ τῇ παρακλήσει τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐπληθύνετο.

"Church throughout" = "Ekklesia Kata Holos"

 

[kcnalp]

Here is the verse in Greek and in English.
I gave you the translations from Strong's Greek Lexicon and Concordance - a respected scholarly source.

Read it and weep . . .

Acts 9:31
Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.

Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία καθ᾿ ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ Γαλιλαίας καὶ Σαμαρείας εἶχεν εἰρήνην οἰκοδομουμένη καὶ πορευομένη τῷ φόβῳ τοῦ κυρίου καὶ τῇ παρακλήσει τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐπληθύνετο.

"Church throughout" = "Ekklesia Kata Holos"

And still, no "Catholic", Pope nor purgatory! You're making this stuff up! The Pope does not overrule our Christian Bible! And neither do you! Write your own bible.

 

[ChristisGod]

Here is the verse in Greek and in English.
I gave you the translations from Strong's Greek Lexicon and Concordance - a respected scholarly source.

Read it and weep . . .

Acts 9:31
Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.

Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία καθ᾿ ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ Γαλιλαίας καὶ Σαμαρείας εἶχεν εἰρήνην οἰκοδομουμένη καὶ πορευομένη τῷ φόβῳ τοῦ κυρίου καὶ τῇ παρακλήσει τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐπληθύνετο.

"Church throughout" = "Ekklesia Kata Holos"

cut and pasting Greek is not reading, writing, speaking or translating Greek into English. That was my question.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And still, no "Catholic", Pope nor purgatory! You're making this stuff up! The Pope does not overrule our Christian Bible! And neither do you! Write your own bible.

Boy - this gets more pathetic by the minute.
What grade are you in? Doesn't you're mommy's basement have a dictionary?

Here is the entry from Strong's . . .
κατα
Pronunciation: kat-ah'
Definition: 1) down from, through out 2) according to, toward, along

ηολοσ
Pronunciation: hol'-os
Definition: 1) all, whole, completely
a primary word; "whole" or "all", i.e. complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb:-all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.

And them's the facts . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

cut and pasting Greek is not reading, writing, speaking or translating Greek into English. That was my question.

I don't have to speak it - I go to a scholarly source like Strong's.

YOU sound like you watched too many "Leave It To Beaver" episodes in mommy's basement . . .