John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?

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DNB

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LoL. I appreciate the concern. I haven't had my normal "composure" for the better part of a month now, so my patience is thin. But I don't know that my response would be any different, actually. This isn't just about our guest. My responses are directed more at the attack the enemy has been waging on this site for the last 4-5 weeks or so. We have survived these things in the past, but also lost some good quality members when it turned into nothing but petty backbiting 24 hours a day. The enemy has been working overtime since Behold got deceived into thinking he was "serving God" to wage all out war night and day against Catholicism here, when in fact all he did was stir a hornets nest and now the enemy is having his way with us. Now we've got people just like him on the other side of the fence increasingly coming in. It will not stop now until it has brought spiritual destruction in numerous forms, because it draws more and more of the spiritually naive and gullible to "get involved." You will see more and more spiritually immature people joining now just so they can join in the fun.

I've been around forums for a long time now, so I am not ignorant of our enemy's devices. But let the winds blow again. We will lose some good people, and other good ones that might have joined will pass us by, and instead we will get more who are all too willing to serve the enemy because they know no better than to think they are "serving God" by petty and worthless debate.

So be it. But I'll be fine. Getting more into prayer now. The weather is cooler.

God bless, and thanks again for the concern.
Absolutely, never doubted your control, just had to remark at the out-of-character diatribe (lol), ...which, let's face it, there is a time for austerity and out-right rebuke, for sure.
Yes, times they are a changing, and I imagine that the controversy will only get hotter...
Thanks!
 
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Tong2020

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Your interpretation renounces what Jesus said prior to verse 6:63.

My website goes into a bite more detail of what verse 63 means:

Verse 63: “It is the spirit that gives life, while “the” flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”

Some say this verse confirms that Jesus was speaking symbolically with regard to the Bread of Life Discourse in John chapter 6. Does this verse confirm that Jesus in fact was speaking symbolically?
  • What are the words he just spoke? Several times Jesus spoke, eat my flesh (7) and drink my blood (3) to obtain eternal life.
  • What does “no avail” mean? It means “no help or benefit.”
  • Did Jesus say “my” flesh is of no avail? No, he said “the” flesh is of no avail.
  • Is Jesus’ flesh of no avail? No!
  • The Lord is perfect and sinless. His flesh is holy and pure. His flesh and spirit rose from the dead. Was his flesh on the cross of no help or benefit? Jesus is referring to “our” sinful flesh. The Lord is saying, it is no help or benefit to feed “our” flesh that dies and withers away. “His” resurrected flesh and blood feeds our spirit (soul), which gives life.
  • Consuming his flesh and blood feeds our spirit (soul) which gives life, not our sinful flesh which is of no avail. We transform into the Body of Christ by spiritually being fed, so we too rise from the dead.
https://truthcampaign.org/truth-campaign-2/

Nothing you say here really is new to what you had been repeatedly posting in response to different posters here which were either had been refuted or ignored altogether due to their out of context response to the post that you are respond to.

And the result is, you never really get to address what I asked of you in my post that you are responding to here. Here let me bring them up again for you. If your answer is contained in your website, please be kind enough to cut and paste them here.

<<<Was his flesh on the cross of no help or benefit?>>>

Can you explain your question a bit and give it some context?

<<<“His” resurrected flesh and blood feeds our spirit (soul), which gives life.>>>

Please cite scriptures that say or effectively say what you say there.

Tong
R1207
 

Waiting on him

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Not if one have a different take on what "hear" means in Romans 10:17. It does not refer to the natural understanding or discernment of man, but to spiritual understanding or discernment, and the receiving of it.

Tong
R1205
Then I guess the reason they departed that day was because God didn’t choose for them to hear.
 
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The Catholic church is good at 'making things up' without any biblical evidence. But I'm sure to say that I believe some Catholics are saved.


I respect that you believe your church, but I would encourage you to search the scriptures to see if it is true. Salvation is not something you earn, it's a gift that cannot be bought despite what the book of Tobit says:

10 For almsgiving delivers from death and saves people from passing down to darkness.

Salvation is not for sale.

God does not GIVE you salvation based on works. It's freely given by his GRACE! But, the Bible states that the gift can be LOST by evil works. Giving and losing are two different things.
............
What would happen if the US government allowed us to interpret the US Constitution and follow our own interpretation as we see fit? There would be total chaos in America! This is what we have with our non-Catholics Christian brothers and sisters; chaos on interpretation. Some believe gay sexual activity is a mortal sin, some don't. Some believe abortion is perfectly fine, some don't, some believe your once saved, always saved, some don't etc... They claim the Holy Spirit is guiding them on their interpretations but the Holy Spirit doesn't lie! God is not going to say it's okay here but not there...

In America, instead we have the Supreme Court and court system to interpret the US Constitution. In Christianity, we have the Catholic Church to interpret scripture. If I travel to Africa, Europe or another state in the US and go to Mass, the Mass, the readings and interpretation are ALL THE SAME - guided by the Holy Spirit. Now, I'm not saying the members of the Church and priests are all good people. Some are Judas', but the Church must carry on just like it did in the first Century, and through out. God Bless!
 
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Well, I would presume you are of the "catholic church". So, if you say that you are not re-sacrificing Jesus, I have nothing to say about that. I understand it is what you believe. But it does not follow that because it is what you believe, that it is the truth. It is what the scriptures say that is truth.

I am just curious, I have a few questions. In every time in the 'Mass':

1. Is bread broken and shared among the attendees? If not, why not bread when that is the proper element Jesus used to represent His body?
2. Is wine or fruit of the vine shared among the attendees? If not, why not wine or fruit of the vine, when that is the proper element Jesus used to represent His blood?
3. Does one get to drink of the wine or fruit of the vine, those who want to partake of it? To my knowledge, that is not the case, though to my knowledge, it seems that concerning the wafer, everyone who wants to partake of it gets to eat of it.
4. Concerning that part of the Mass, where you get to eat of the wafer and perhaps drink of the wine or fruit of the vine, as it is supposed to be for and in remembrance of Jesus, there is really nothing that happens there, except that perhaps, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes, right?

Tong
R1180

It's not a re-sacrifice on the cross. The Mass is a sacrifice which also means a "gift" from Jesus of his glorified heaven body in heaven. Not his bloody body from the cross.

Great other questions too. I don't have all of those questions memorize but a great resource is www.catholic.com . Right at the top of the website, there's a search field. Just enter your questions and up will come the answers.

Thanks and God Bless!
 
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LoL. I appreciate the concern. I haven't had my normal "composure" for the better part of a month now, so my patience is thin. But I don't know that my response would be any different, actually. This isn't just about our guest. My responses are directed more at the attack the enemy has been waging on this site for the last 4-5 weeks or so. We have survived these things in the past, but also lost some good quality members when it turned into nothing but petty backbiting 24 hours a day. The enemy has been working overtime since Behold got deceived into thinking he was "serving God" to wage all out war night and day against Catholicism here, when in fact all he did was stir a hornets nest and now the enemy is having his way with us. Now we've got people just like him on the other side of the fence increasingly coming in. It will not stop now until it has brought spiritual destruction in numerous forms, because it draws more and more of the spiritually naive and gullible to "get involved." You will see more and more spiritually immature people joining now just so they can join in the fun.

I've been around forums for a long time now, so I am not ignorant of our enemy's devices. But let the winds blow again. We will lose some good people, and other good ones that might have joined will pass us by, and instead we will get more who are all too willing to serve the enemy because they know no better than to think they are "serving God" by petty and worthless debate.

So be it. But I'll be fine. Getting more into prayer now. The weather is cooler.

God bless, and thanks again for the concern.

Can you logically answer why the disciples left Jesus in John chapter 6?

From Jesus' mouth several times, the Bread of Life Discourse has to due with eternal life. Jesus mentions eternal life 9 times - more than any chapter in the Bible. Instead of rambling on bad mouthing Catholics let's get to the truth. Why did they leave? You have to have a logical answer since this is about eternal life taught by the Lord.
 

Tong2020

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Lol, I'm not bringing works up because you or anyone else is making that argument. I brought it up to show you that Paul is contrasting being chosen through faith with being chosen through works. If you're going to understand Paul's argument about election you have to keep it in the context in which he presents it, which is faith vs. works.
Well, you are contrasting two things concerning election, neither of which Paul said anything about. Faith and works sure were contrasted by Paul, but not in the matter of election.

Consider this, was Jacob elected on the basis of faith? And this, was Paul chosen on the basis of faith? And this, were the 12 disciples chosen on the basis of faith? Did Jacob, Paul, and the 12 disciples get themselves chosen by God based on something or were they chosen by God according to His will and purpose?

It seems the church makes election more about 'who' is elected and 'when' rather than 'how' one is elected, the way Paul presents it. Paul's focus is on how one is chosen, not on the matter of who specifically is chosen and when they are chosen as the church likes to improperly focus the discussion (and as a result misses the intent of the argument and ends up wandering into sundry doctrines). This will probably take more than a few posts to get you to see.
It seems this is your doctrine then: (focusing on the how) To get yourself chosen by God, you believe Him.

So, you teach that by having faith in God, you get to be chosen by God. And having faith in God, means you chose God over false gods, right? That means you choose God, so that God will choose you, right? That means you choose God before God choose you. Is that right?

Tong
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Waiting on him

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Can you logically answer why the disciples left Jesus in John chapter 6?

From Jesus' mouth several times, the Bread of Life Discourse has to due with eternal life. Jesus mentions eternal life 9 times - more than any chapter in the Bible. Instead of rambling on bad mouthing Catholics let's get to the truth. Why did they leave? You have to have a logical answer since this is about eternal life taught by the Lord.
They left to continue practicing religion, where they viewed men as having what they sought. This is still a common practice,,,,, apparently.
 
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@Truthcampaign.org

John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?

Because it has not been granted to them by the Father. They were not given by the Father to Son for salvation.

Tong
R1174

In John 6:44, did the disciples leave because God the Father did not “draw” them to Jesus?

Verse 44 – “No one can “come to me” unless the Father who sent me “draw” him, and I will raise him on the last day.” Some claim, the disciples left Jesus because the Father did not “draw” them to his Son.


Jesus defines the word “draw” in the very next verse:

  • What is the definition of “draw?” Jesus explained this in the very next verse. He said, “Everyone who “listens” to my Father and “learns” from him “comes to me.” (45)
  • You most definitely had to listen and learn from the Father and had “come to Jesus” to be called a “disciple of Christ” in the Holy Bible. John 14:9-10
  • Does listening and learning (draw) guarantee the disciples would be raised on the last day? No, BELIEVING in what you have listened and learned is the requirement! John 6:47
  • Furthermore, if the real reason the disciples left Jesus was because they were not drawn by the Father, not by lack of faith, then this would prove that believing in Jesus does not guarantee eternal salvation, and that our loving God may reject faithful obedient disciples of Christ.

The disciples drawn by the Father “still” had to BELIEVE in order to be saved:

  • Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. John 6:47
  • Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:18

The disciples were drawn by the Father BUT stopped believing:

  • The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 52
  • Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can acceptit?” 60
  • Jesus said, “but there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. 64
  • As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. 66
https://truthcampaign.org/truth-campaign-7/
 

Tong2020

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It's not a re-sacrifice on the cross. The Mass is a sacrifice which also means a "gift" from Jesus of his glorified heaven body in heaven. Not his bloody body from the cross.

Great other questions too. I don't have all of those questions memorize but a great resource is www.catholic.com . Right at the top of the website, there's a search field. Just enter your questions and up will come the answers.

Thanks and God Bless!
Can you not answer those questions yourself? Do you have your Bible? Is the Bible not adequate enough to answer my simple questions?

Well, if not, then I have no other recourse then but to seek answers elsewhere.

Tong
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Hidden In Him

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Can you logically answer why the disciples left Jesus in John chapter 6?

From Jesus' mouth several times, the Bread of Life Discourse has to due with eternal life. Jesus mentions eternal life 9 times - more than any chapter in the Bible. Instead of rambling on bad mouthing Catholics let's get to the truth. Why did they leave? You have to have a logical answer since this is about eternal life taught by the Lord.

I already answered it and you weren't listening, neither will you be listening now. You will ask me "where?", likely after not even searching for it, because you have not listened to anyone on this thread, nor will you likely be on any subsequent thread you create. I am simply responding for the sake of others.

I hold no resentments. I accept things as they are.

God bless,
Hidden In Him
 
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FollowHim

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I created the website below. The Bread of Life Discourse is a stumbling block for protestants, which has to do with eternal life.

Many seek to be right, and as a result, they fail to seek the truth!


Truth Campaign | Gospel of John Chapter 6 | Always Seek The Truth!

God Bless!
Amen. We need to eat Jesus body and His blood. This is an astounding proposition, to have communion with Christ in His suffering. To carry our cross daily, to know the cost and the problems along the way.

I have met different people who have met Jesus and engaged with this heavenly intimacy, only they are different versions of these events and their meaning. It gets worse because I must experience this also to get the reality they are speaking of. And my problem is they cannot all be right, because they imply very different things, some holiness, others our sinfulness but Christs transcendent reality, others again miracle working words we can speak forth, some that we are like Jesus, and Jesus was born again, and we to can be like Jesus.

The other thing I have noticed is the shadowy dream state of emotional ambition, the shaky image that is not very clear, sounds great, until it starts to become defined and clearer, where it turns out to be an idol, a false faith or goal, a missing of Jesus's words while emphasising just one aspect while ignoring the rest.

What is clear, is God brings the elect His reality which fits each one, but probably has a description that is completely personal and unique.
I was told by one certain member of such a group that I was him 20 years ago. It was so odd, because he was actually wrong, we are very different people, but I had to be like him back then, or else he was actually wrong about his world view, and that 100% could never be true.

And maybe this is what tells us whether we have found the truth or not. Truth never fears deeper truth, because it has established something that cannot be assailed or stopped. The more open I have become the more this has proven true. It is so odd to be like a surfer on this wave, because I am not the wave or the cause of its reality, I am just acknowledging its reality . God bless you
 
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This is it right here. There are a number of ways the typical Jew could have interpreted the saying, but none of them would have been comfortable in the least. Our new member seems to think the twelve somehow knew exactly what He meant, but the text doesn't bear that out in the least. Peter didn't say, "Obviously they're not as wise as we are, Lord. If they were, they'd know you were going to be a wafer." The text reads:

67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, "Will you go away also?" 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that you are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

In other words, "Lord, we don't have the foggiest idea what you mean either (Lol), but where else are we going to go, seeing as we believe you are the Messiah?"

I'm not sure what any of us are doing answering our guest, however, since he made it clear to me in his post that our interpretations are of no account anyway. I don't think most of the posters have caught up with that statement yet, but it means he doesn't care what anyone thinks, and he's just playing this community and goading them into responding. The only smart move at that point is to ignore him altogether, though I'm guessing not all are savvy enough to realize it.

So Jesus is going to let his very own disciples who gave up everything to follow him, leave him based on a misunderstanding? A lack of knowledge?

The Jews knew what Jesus meant. "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 52. Angry arguments breakout 52. Jesus then give an “ultimatum” after the disciples argued over his teaching? “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” 53 The disciples then said "this saying is hard, who can accept it?" 60 Then Jesus said, “what if you see the son of man ascend to where he was before?” (62) Contextually, why would Jesus say this? Is ascending to heaven incomprehensible? Yes! So is bread becoming literal flesh. It is of the miraculous, and that is the obvious point Jesus makes in verse 62.

Supernatural faith means to believe beyond scientific understanding or laws of nature; of the miraculous similar to his supernatural birth and the multiplying of bread and fish. Many disciples lacked in supernatural faith and therefore left him and went back to their former ways of living.

The disciples clearly lacked in FAITH in what Jesus was saying. Turning bread into flesh. They denied God who can do anything! And so do you! You are denying God just like the disciples. Hopefully it's of ignorance and not a hardened heart; a hardened heart seeking to be right in your own mind rather than seeking the truth. God Bless!
 

FollowHim

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I already answered it and you weren't listening, neither will you be listening now. You will ask me "where?", likely after not even searching for it, because you have not listened to anyone on this thread, nor will you likely be on any subsequent thread you create. I am simply responding for the sake of others.

I hold no resentments. I accept things as they are.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

Engagements with different perspectives always have these signs of mixed emotion, empathy, caring, desiring to understand another perspective and seeing as another sees. What people do not see is their emotional debt to any position. The bigger the debt, and greater the cost to shift, and so the unlikely possibility of it ever occurring. It is simple to see, who would choose to voluntarily become sad, depressed and a feeling of dread and hopelessness.

Jesus does warn us very clearly with the description of weeping and gnashing ones teeth. Not a happy picture, but a place we can certainly resolve here and now if we are willing to bow the knee and listen to Jesus today.

God bless you
 
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Hidden In Him

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So Jesus is going to let his very own disciples who gave up everything to follow him, leave him based on a misunderstanding? A lack of knowledge?

The Jews knew what Jesus meant. "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 52. Angry arguments breakout 52. Jesus then give an “ultimatum” after the disciples argued over his teaching? “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” 53 The disciples then said "this saying is hard, who can accept it?" 60 Then Jesus said, “what if you see the son of man ascend to where he was before?” (62) Contextually, why would Jesus say this? Is ascending to heaven incomprehensible? Yes! So is bread becoming literal flesh. It is of the miraculous, and that is the obvious point Jesus makes in verse 62.

Supernatural faith means to believe beyond scientific understanding or laws of nature; of the miraculous similar to his supernatural birth and the multiplying of bread and fish. Many disciples lacked in supernatural faith and therefore left him and went back to their former ways of living.

The disciples clearly lacked in FAITH in what Jesus was saying. Turning bread into flesh. They denied God who can do anything! And so do you! You are denying God just like the disciples. Hopefully it's of ignorance and not a hardened heart; a hardened heart seeking to be right in your own mind rather than seeking the truth. God Bless!

Hey, I do have something we might have some common ground on. You said you were a Rams fan. I've been a big time Saints fan since 1976. We have another good team this year. Not sure if the Raiders will be good tonight, but they'd better come ready.
 

Spurgeon's Girl

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God does not GIVE you salvation based on works. It's freely given by his GRACE! But, the Bible states that the gift can be LOST by evil works. Giving and losing are two different things.
............
What would happen if the US government allowed us to interpret the US Constitution and follow our own interpretation as we see fit? There would be total chaos in America! This is what we have with our non-Catholics Christian brothers and sisters; chaos on interpretation. Some believe gay sexual activity is a mortal sin, some don't. Some believe abortion is perfectly fine, some don't, some believe your once saved, always saved, some don't etc... They claim the Holy Spirit is guiding them on their interpretations but the Holy Spirit doesn't lie! God is not going to say it's okay here but not there...

In America, instead we have the Supreme Court and court system to interpret the US Constitution. In Christianity, we have the Catholic Church to interpret scripture. If I travel to Africa, Europe or another state in the US and go to Mass, the Mass, the readings and interpretation are ALL THE SAME - guided by the Holy Spirit. Now, I'm not saying the members of the Church and priests are all good people. Some are Judas', but the Church must carry on just like it did in the first Century, and through out. God Bless!

First, one cannot lose their salvation.

Perseverance of the Saints from the scriptures.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).

But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).

And, this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life (1 John 2:25).

And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).

“Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:15-16).


Then said Jesus unto the twelve, “Will ye also go away?” Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life” (John 6:67-68).


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:1-3).

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).

Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).

More....


(John 10:27-30),(John 6:39),(1 John 5:18),(Luke 11:20-22),(1 John 4:4),(1 Corinthians 10:13),(Matthew 24:24)
(1 John 2:19),(2 Timothy 4:18),(Jude 24-25),(Psalm 37:23-26), (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24),(Luke 22:31)

That takes care of losing your salvation.

Second.

Take a look at the news. America is already in chaos. The Constitution has zilch to do with losing one's salvation. God takes care of that.

The Catholic church funds abortion, redirects money from Peter's Pence to pricey London real estate, idolizes a woman, uses pagan symbols, teaches acceptance of homosexuals and even has private masses for them. How can you tell me that the Catholic church interprets scripture when they cannot manage what the Bible clearly says. It's not ambiguous, it's depraved sin.

Here is what the Bible says:

1 Corinthians 7:2

2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.


1 Corinthians 6:15-20 NASB

15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “The two shall become one flesh.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.


1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NASB

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.


Mark 10:6-9

6 But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. 7 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, 8 and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”


Romans 1:18-32

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.


Jude 5-8

Hebrews 13:4

1 Timothy 1:8-11

What were you saying about the Catholic church interpreting scripture? How does the Catholic hierarchy justify so called "Dignity Masses"

I encourage you again, to read the scriptures for yourself and leave the Catholic Church.

 
Sep 12, 2020
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Hey, I do have something we might have some common ground on. You said you were a Rams fan. I've been a big time Saints fan since 1976. We have another good team this year. Not sure if the Raiders will be good tonight, but they'd better come ready.

Monday night football baby! Love Drew Brees! Great Christian man, though we may have differences in scripture :)! I have Alvin Kamara on my fantasy football team. Can we be friends now! :)
 
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