Miracles, Signs and Wonders

[CharismaticLady]

teaching, exhortation, discernment...................

That's what I thought. Nothing from 1 Corinthians 12 which are for the profit of all and supernatural.

How do you know you're not a false teacher if you can't hear God's voice from the Spirit?

 

[Berserk]

another false claim. I said miracles, signs, wonders ie the sign gifts.

The gifts that build up the body will be active until the Resurrection of the saints.

I know by direct experience that nothing "builds up the body" as effectively as sign gifts! You just need to get out more.

 

[ChristisGod]

That's what I thought. Nothing from 1 Corinthians 12 which are for the profit of all and supernatural.

those passed the supernatural sign gifts below................

to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
to another miraculous powers,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues
and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

 

[ChristisGod]

I know by direct experience that nothing "builds up the body" as effectively as sign gifts! You just need to get out more.

Jesus said an evil generation seeks after signs.

next.....................

 

[CharismaticLady]

those passed the supernatural sign gifts below................

to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
to another miraculous powers,
to another speaking in different kinds of tongues
and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

When did the New Covenant that included all these gifts end, and a different covenant take its place? Nothing changes during a covenant until the covenant ends.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Jesus said an evil generation seeks after signs.

next.....................

Wow, did you ever miss the point!

 

[Hidden In Him]

easy that is during the Tribulation when Gods Divine wrath is being poured out upon all flesh.

Ah but see, this answer exposes the weakness in your position. It is what is referred to in scholarship as an unnatural reading of the text. The passage reads as a continuum.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit. 30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh.

Taken together here, the implication is that the signs and wonders that take place in the heavens and on earth will be prophesied by those upon whom He pours His Spirit. If you read v.28-29 as being fulfilled 2,000 years ago, but v.30-31 as not destined to be fulfilled until thousands of years later, you have this bizarre interpretation of the passage that disassociates the wonders in the heavens and on earth from those who will proclaim them in advance to the nations.

Let me show you another unnatural reading you are subscribing to. You were saying that the only "prophets" in the end-times will be the two witnesses. But in Revelation we read the following:

23 The light of a lamp will never shine in you again, and the voices of a bride and bridegroom will never call out in you again. For your merchants were the great ones of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.” 24 And there was found in her the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who had been slain on the earth. (Revelation 18:23-24).

Now, if the two witnesses are the only prophets who will exist during this time, you have "prophets" here referring to only two people, and this would lend itself to interpreting "saints" as only a few as well. If not, you have again an unnatural reading of "there was found in her the blood of many saints and two prophets." It doesn't read naturally. If, however, you understand it in the context of Joel 2:28-31, it makes perfect sense. There will be both many prophets and many saints during the end-times, and they will expose the false church for her wickedness and proclaim judgments upon her. As a result, the false church will murder them.

Another question in this regard is this: When and how will it be fulfilled the scripture that says the saints will do even greater works than our Lord did?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I know by direct experience that nothing "builds up the body" as effectively as sign gifts! You just need to get out more.

Correct, Berserk. It is the difference between living by the dead letter or the Living Spirit. Through revelation from the Spirit of God, our Lord shines light upon the written word and gives confirmations of its meaning. Without revelation from the Spirit, that which they think they understand in the written word is actually the product of spiritual blindness, and it makes them think they have the truth and are rich in it when they are not (Revelation 3:14-22).

 

[ChristisGod]

Ah but see, this answer exposes the weakness in your position. It is what is referred to in scholarship as an unnatural reading of the text. The passage reads as a continuum.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit. 30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Jehovah cometh.

Taken together here, the implication is that the signs and wonders that take place in the heavens and on earth will be prophesied by those upon whom He pours His Spirit. If you read v.28-29 as being fulfilled 2,000 years ago, but v.30-31 as not destined to be fulfilled until thousands of years later, you have this bizarre interpretation of the passage that disassociates the wonders in the heavens and on earth from those who will proclaim them in advance to the nations.

Let me show you another unnatural reading you are subscribing to. You were saying that the only "prophets" in the end-times will be the two witnesses. But in Revelation we read the following:

23 The light of a lamp will never shine in you again, and the voices of a bride and bridegroom will never call out in you again. For your merchants were the great ones of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.” 24 And there was found in her the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who had been slain on the earth. (Revelation 18:23-24).

Now, if the two witnesses are the only prophets who will exist during this time, you have "prophets" here referring to only two people, and this would lend itself to interpreting "saints" as only a few as well. If not, you have again an unnatural reading of "there was found in her the blood of many saints and two prophets." It doesn't read naturally. If, however, you understand it in the context of Joel 2:28-31, it makes perfect sense. There will be both many prophets and many saints during the end-times, and they will expose the false church for her wickedness and proclaim judgments upon her. As a result, the false church will murder them.

Another question in this regard is this: When and how will it be fulfilled the scripture that says the saints will do even greater works than our Lord did?

the miracle of salvation through the gospel is the greater works.

I mean why did Jesus come ?

To seek and save the lost.

Hence the command of the great commission being fulfilled through the church.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

Correct, Berserk. It is the difference between living by the dead letter or the Living Spirit. Through revelation from the Spirit of God, our Lord shines light upon the written word and gives confirmations of its meaning. Without revelation from the Spirit, that which they think they understand in the written word is actually the product of spiritual blindness, and it makes them think they have the truth and are rich in it when they are not (Revelation 3:14-22).

keep seeking miracles then by all means

the only miracle I care about is the salvation of the lost not the " signs and wonders" of the heretical teaching of the wof, name it claim it, prosperity doctrine's, haginites, copelandites, hinnites etc.............

all deceivers.........................

hope this helps !!!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Jesus said an evil generation seeks after signs.

next.....................

The problem here, my brother, is that you are not distinguishing between signs associated with confirming Jesus was the Messiah and signs associated with confirming the word.

Scripture says in Mark: 19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked through them, confirming His word by the signs that accompanied it. (Mark 16:19-20)

The preaching of the apostles contained more than simply proclaiming Jesus was the Christ. There was an entire body of doctrine established by the church, and this is why signs and wonders continued to be made manifest. It was to confirm the true gospel from the false.

 

[ChristisGod]

The problem here, my brother, is that you are not distinguishing between signs associated with confirming Jesus was the Messiah and signs associated with confirming the word.

Scripture says in Mark: 19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. 20 And they went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked through them, confirming His word by the signs that accompanied it. (Mark 16:19-20)

The preaching of the apostles contained more than simply proclaiming Jesus was the Christ. There was an entire body of doctrine established by the church, and this is why signs and wonders continued to be made manifest. It was to confirm the true gospel from the false.

agreed and it stopped with the Apostles. No more revelation as we have the complete Word of God in our 66 books.

 

[Hidden In Him]

keep seeking miracles then by all means

the only miracle I care about is the salvation of the lost not the " signs and wonders" of the heretical teaching of the wof, name it claim it, prosperity doctrine's, haginites, copelandites, hinnites etc.............

all deceivers.........................

hope this helps !!!

I fear you are yet another victim of the enemy using false prophets to convince you that true ones do not and will not ever exist. By falling for this, you are actually getting victimized by the very spirits of deception you think you have been protected from.

To seek and save the lost.

Hence the command of the great commission being fulfilled through the church.

The great commission included manifesting supernatural signs and wonders because this is what drew them in, not only by the New Testament church but by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. By defaming these things for today, you make the gospel impotent by comparison. The church is not gaining ground in our time, it is slowly losing ground to religions like Islam now. Your teaching will only further than decline, though I know you don't mean to be adding to it intentionally.

 

[Hidden In Him]

agreed and it stopped with the Apostles. No more revelation as we have the complete Word of God in our 66 books.

Post #48.

 

[ChristisGod]

I fear you are yet another victim of the enemy using false prophets to convince you that true ones do not and will not ever exist. By falling for this, you are actually getting victimized by the very spirits of deception you think you have been protected from.


The great commission included manifesting supernatural signs and wonders because this is what drew them in, not only by the New Testament church but by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. By defaming these things for today, you make the gospel impotent by comparison. The church is not gaining ground in our time, it is slowly losing ground to religions like Islam now. Your teaching will only further than decline, though I know you don't mean to be adding to it intentionally.

salvation is the greatest miracle not signs and wonders.

I seek what Jesus seeks- the lost.

And Abraham said unto him, ‘If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead.’

 

[ChristisGod]

I know by direct experience that nothing "builds up the body" as effectively as sign gifts! You just need to get out more.

sure not according to Paul its just the opposite of your claim lol..............

1 Corinthians 14:1-4
Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.

 

[CharismaticLady]

sure not according to Paul its just the opposite of your claim lol..............

1 Corinthians 14:1-4
Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church.

What covenant are we in? The one with gifts, or some other one without gifts? Personally, I'm in the covenant of the Spirit.

 

[Hidden In Him]

salvation is the greatest miracle not signs and wonders.

I seek what Jesus seeks- the lost.

But you sound like you are assuming that everyone responding to you on this thread isn't seeking the lost. You sure that is a fair assumption to make about me, CL, and Berserk?

And Abraham said unto him, ‘If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead.’

Correct, and this verse demonstrates God's use of prophets to give the faithful confirmation of the truth. Those who will not hear the prophets won't be persuaded by the raising of the dead either, but those who have faith will be persuaded by both. This is the implication of the passage, and what Jesus was trying to communicate.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hence the command of the great commission being fulfilled through the church.

I'm following the great commission, are you? Are you equipped? Or do you still have a hard heart, and deny His gifts available.

14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

 

[Hidden In Him]

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God.

And is edified.

But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.

And edifies others.

according to Paul its just the opposite of your claim lol..............

Berserk is correct. He knows what he is talking about by experience. The problem with many Cessationists is they have no experience in it, so they talk of such matters from theory only, and they interpret scripture without any real life understanding of what is actually being said, bro. This is why Charismatic Lady has been after you to label the "gifts" you actually walk in. What we have experienced determines what we have genuine knowledge of, and not just theories concerning.