Robots and Will Worshipers

[marks]

2 Corinthians 4
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

 

[Rudometkin]

The short answer is 'No'.

My free will is mine and mine alone.

If nothing about you is self-existent, then how can anything about you be yours alone? Do you not belong to God?

But, the potential for free will was given by God and even my freedom will cease if God deems that I not enter Heaven.

It sounds to me like God owns you, and your will is not your own.

Your mind depends on God's power to exist. Do you agree with this?

 

[Enoch111]

You believe He controls their free wills, is that correct?

No. God does not control free wills. But He presents CONSEQUENCES.
See Genesis 2:17.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:

DECISION: for in the day that thou eatest thereof

CONSEQUENCE: thou shalt surely die.

 

[Rudometkin]

No. God does not control free wills. But He presents CONSEQUENCES.
See Genesis 2:17.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:

DECISION: for in the day that thou eatest thereof

CONSEQUENCE: thou shalt surely die.

Yes, God controls all things, yet he has given men and angels free will.

Either God controls all things or He doesn't. Which is it?

 

[marks]

If nothing about you is self-existent, then how can anything about you be yours alone? Do you not belong to God?

If it be given to you.

 

[Taken]

Discuss support and implications of the two opposing doctrines regarding 'Free Will' and 'Determinism' below.

Free Will: Man has the power to think on his own apart from God.

Determinism: God controls all things.

Both-
Two different parties- God and man.

•God created man.
•God gave man a Body, with Temporary Life.
•It's Life is Blood.
•The Soul in man, and Life in a Soul--->
Both belong to God.
•The SEED God Offers to Man, is Gods Seed.
•That Seed is only Given to a man's whose Soul within him is Saved unto God.

All men have FREEWILL.
•All men can do whatever they want with their Body and their life.
•They can Freely Choose To Give God Power and Control of their Life To God...OR Not.

God is Just-
•A man WHO Freely Chooses God to have Power and Control over his Life;
God will accommodate, and Tells what and how.
•A man who rejects God, God will accommodate him as well, that he will forever be distanced from Gods presence.

Inasmuch as Presidental Elections are coming up soon.

As long as a man has Life in his body, All men have Freewill TO Elect God...or Not.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Sabertooth]

..., and that God can limit our choices.

That God can allow us to limit our own choices (paint ourselves into a corner). I'm sorry if that was unclear.

 

[Renniks]

Where is the contradiction?

Of course you did not say that God can be a liar. What does that have to do with our discussion from earlier?

To suggest He can be a liar for programming and speaking certain things is to hint that He is not really incapable of lying.

I can just as easily say God can't lie, therefore 'Free Will' is hogwash.

He would be angry because He wants to be angry. I can just as easily say it doesn't make the whole Bible meaningless and contradictory.

Now what?

I can not see any logic in your comments here. "God can't lie, so free will is hogwash" makes no sense.
However God says of his own people that it never entered his mind that they would sacrifice their children to idols for example. If he determined for them to do just that, he would have to be lying or forgetful.
It's a contradiction to claim God can honestly tell us to obey, then program us to disobey. It sounds like something a Greek god would do, but not a righteous God.

 

[DNB]

I don't think I fully understand. Is that yes as in it would have not been spectacular?

Creating inanimate objects to conform to one's will, is not as spectacular as creating billions of free-will agents, having all their lives intertwine with one another, without any coercion or manipulation from the Creator's part, and yet, having God's divine plan unfold as planned.

 

[DNB]

DNB, were my questions not worthy of answering?

I can just as easily say that the Levitical Law was meaningful, and the decree to be obedient and 'holy as He is holy' was completely meaningful and amazing. The death penalty for adultery, murder and breaking the Sabbath would be meaningful and just, and the command to love would be absolutely meaningful and righteous.

...thought that I answered them?
But you cannot just flippantly say that they're just with no qualification. Because, they are not just unless man has fee will. No one asks a man with a broken leg, or limited in one capacity or another, to run a race and win, upon the pain of death.

 

[Rudometkin]

Ok. You want me to admit that belief in God is irrational. There, I did it. Belief in God is irrational, it results in self-contradictions and only people who are fools believe in a supreme being. You convinced me. I hereby denounce all belief in the supernatural. There, you were successful at stumping me. Now, you can be self-satisfied as you have led me to be enlightened by your wisdom. Thank you so much for guiding me into the light. You are a lifesaver.

I don't want you to admit such a thing.

Are you being honest with me?

 

[marks]

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Why did Adam eat? Because he was preordained by God to eat? Or because he listened to his wife?

Did God mean for Adam to eat, or not? God said He commanded Adam to not eat. Did God mean it? Or was He being a bit dishonest here? I'd like to think that everyone on this site knows God is honest.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Creating inanimate objects to conform to one's will, is not as spectacular as creating billions of free-will agents, having all their lives intertwine with one another, without any coercion or manipulation from the Creator's part, and yet, having God's divine plan unfold as planned.

There is no real love without real choice.

We love Him because He first loved us.

I guess that's a fun thing about this thread . . . to review all the evidences in Scripture that confirm for us that God has given us a choice to respond to Him or not.

Much love!

 

[marks]

...thought that I answered them?
But you cannot just flippantly say that their just with no qualification. Because, they are not just unless man has fee will. No one asks a man with a broken leg, or limited in one capacity or another, to run a race and win, upon the pain of death.

I've noticed, sometimes people don't seem to think through the implications of their views.

Create something a certain way, and then blame your creation for being that way?

No, God will really judge us for our real choices.

Much love!

 

[DNB]

There is no real love without real choice.

We love Him because He first loved us.

I guess that's a fun thing about this thread . . . to review all the evidences in Scripture that confirm for us that God has given us a choice to respond to Him or not.

Much love!

Yes, we love Him, because He is love. Yes, it's a good exercise to remind ourselves that it is incumbent upon us to make the right choice, and to be steadfast about it. There will be no excuses on Judgement Day - '...well, you made me this way, what choice did I have?'.

 

[marks]

Yes, we love Him, because He is love. Yes, it's a good exercise to remind ourselves that it is incumbent upon us to make the right choice, and to be steadfast about it. There will be no excuses on Judgement Day - '...well, you made me this way, what choice did I have?'.

What more concerns me is that God has given me much more choice than I've availed myself of, if you know what I mean!

Much love!

 

[DNB]

I've noticed, sometimes people don't seem to think through the implications of their views.

Create something a certain way, and then blame your creation for being that way?

No, God will really judge us for our real choices.

Much love!

Exactly, that was my point about the Levitical death penalty (maybe you were alluding to it). How can the Creator hold man accountable for disobedience, when they were only given one option on how to perform.

 

[Rudometkin]

I've noticed, sometimes people don't seem to think through the implications of their views.

Create something a certain way, and then blame your creation for being that way?

No, God will really judge us for our real choices.

Much love!

Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

[DNB]

What more concerns me is that God has given me much more choice than I've availed myself of, if you know what I mean!

Much love!

I would agree, ...God does not tempt, but always offers a way to escape...

 

[Rudometkin]

I would agree, ...God does not tempt, but always offers a way to escape...

Matthew 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.