Robots and Will Worshipers

[marks]

Romans 9:21
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Ok, now put it into context.

Much love!

 

[DNB]

Matthew 4:1
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

...Christ wasn't tempted beyond his means to resist, was the point. Just the fact that God put him to the test, should reveal something to you of our constitution.

 

[Rudometkin]

Ok, now put it into context.

Much love!

Isaiah 64:8
But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Proverbs 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

[Rudometkin]

I can not see any logic in your comments here.

That is unfortunate.

God says of his own people that it never entered his mind that they would sacrifice their children to idols for example. If he determined for them to do just that, he would have to be lying or forgetful.

Do you have a specific verse in mind?

Jeremiah 32:35
And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

God says that it never entered His mind to command them, that they should do it.

A moral command and a metaphysical decree to cause are two different things. This verse doesn't speak of what God causes or what He thinks of causing.

It seems that with the way you interpret the verse, you must not believe that God is Omniscient, since, if it didn't enter His mind that it would happen, He would not be all-knowing.

It's a contradiction to claim God can honestly tell us to obey, then program us to disobey. It sounds like something a Greek god would do, but not a righteous God.

How is it a contradiction? You show that they are two separate things.

 

[Renniks]

If God doesn't cause people to do evil things, then who does?

The people themselves choose evil. Which is exactly what scripture says, over and over again.

 

[Renniks]

moral command and a metaphysical decree to cause are two different things. This verse doesn't speak of what God causes or what He thinks of causing.

Sorry, but that's total absurdity.

The God I love doesn't give a command to do one thing and cause me to do the opposite. That's a terrible view of God.
The God of the bible speaks like a rejected lover:

"What more could have been done for my vineyard than I have done for it? When I looked for good grapes, why did it yield only bad?"

The answer can never be: " Because God decreed they would yield bad grapes."
You make God more evil than the devil with that view.

 

[marks]

I would agree, ...God does not tempt, but always offers a way to escape...

That "way of escape", I think it was A.T. Robertson who pointed out this word was used of a safe haven out of the stormy sea, in the context, a particular safe haven.

That is to say that every testing we are faced with has a particular outcome desired by God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Isaiah 64:8
But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Proverbs 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

That's not the context.

 

[marks]

Isaiah 64:8
But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Proverbs 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

That's cherry picking. Anyone can do that. But not just anyone can learn the meaning of Scripture.

Much love!

 

[marks]

A moral command and a metaphysical decree to cause are two different things.

So, are you truly thinking that God give moral commands to do or not do certain things, and then metaphysically causes the opposite?

Is this your view?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Sorry, but that's total absurdity.

The God I love doesn't give a command to do one thing and cause me to do the opposite. That's a terrible view of God.
The God of the bible speaks like a rejected lover:

"What more could have been done for my vineyard than I have done for it? When I looked for good grapes, why did it yield only bad?"

The answer can never be: " Because God decreed they would yield bad grapes."
You make God more evil than the devil with that view.

I'm getting that also from what @Rudometkin is posting.

God condemns sin, and produces sin?

In a word, no.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If God doesn't cause people to do evil things, then who does?

Your choice, you can lay the charge of sin at God's feet. I won't. Have a care!

Much love!

 

[Rudometkin]

The people themselves choose evil. Which is exactly what scripture says, over and over again.

Genesis 50:20
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

 

[marks]

It's like the different between being in a loving family, and surrounding yourself with paper dolls.

 

[Rudometkin]

Sorry, but that's total absurdity.

The God I love doesn't give a command to do one thing and cause me to do the opposite. That's a terrible view of God.
The God of the bible speaks like a rejected lover:

"What more could have been done for my vineyard than I have done for it? When I looked for good grapes, why did it yield only bad?"

The answer can never be: " Because God decreed they would yield bad grapes."
You make God more evil than the devil with that view.

That you think God can be evil if He causes something specific and says something specific hints at the lack of reverence you have for Him.

Perhaps absurd according to your standards.

 

[Rudometkin]

Exactly, that was my point about the Levitical death penalty (maybe you were alluding to it). How can the Creator hold man accountable for disobedience, when they were only given one option on how to perform.

We are not held accountable because we are free, but precisely because we are not free.

 

[DNB]

We are not held accountable because we are free, but precisely because we are not free.

No, you're confusing two very distinct and incompatible principles. Accountability means to be brought to account, that is, to be scrutinized and judged accordingly. No assessment process is necessary under a predetermined and predictable environment. No one questions a mammal for eating, when he is created with a stomach and all the organs and chemicals required to ingest nourishment, and ultimately, will cease to exist if he doesn't. Logically, there is no tribunal or judiciary system for such accusation. And yet, all men will be judged according to their deeds on the final day, and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth due to the guilt of the culprit, not due the injustice or caprice of God.

 

[Nancy]

I don't think it's either/or. God made man with a will to choose between obeying Him or not, but God is also sovereign. This doesn't mean that God controls everything man does, but that God's ultimate plans will be accomplished--come hell or high water.

Yes! And God not only uses His willing vessels but, also the disobedient He will use to fulfill His purposes. He knows the end from the beginning of time so, we make choices, good or bad and He will make ALL things to the good of His children. And He will fulfill all He say's He will,

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Yes! And God not only uses His willing vessels but, also the disobedient He will use to fulfill His purposes. He knows the end from the beginning of time so, we make choices, good or bad and He will make ALL things to the good of His children. And He will fulfill all He say's He will,

That's right! And it's very comforting to know this, isn't it?

Very well said, @Nancy .

 

[Nancy]

That's right! And it's very comforting to know this, isn't it?

Very well said, @Nancy .

Oh so VERY comforting! And, thank you